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Kiddush: Difference between revisions
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==Eating before Mussaf== | ==Eating before Mussaf== | ||
# | #Once the time for [[Mussaf]] (from [[Olot HaShachar]]) it’s forbidden to eat a meal (more than a [[KeBaytzah]] of bread) before praying [[Mussaf]], however, it’s permissible to have a [[KeBaytzah]] of bread or a lot of fruit.<ref>The Gemara [[Brachot]] 28b writes that the halacha doesn’t follow Rav Huna who says that it’s forbidden to taste any food before praying [[Mussaf]]. The Tur 286:3 writes that even though we don’t hold like Rav Huna we only permit have a snack but a meal is forbidden. The Bet Yosef quotes the Raavad, Rashba, and perhaps the Rabbenu Yerucham who agree. S”A 286:3 writes that it’s forbidden to eat a meal before praying [[Mussaf]] but it’s permissible to have a snack. The Magen Avraham 286:2 writes that the snack is the same as before [[Mincha]] where S”A 232:3 writes that one may have a [[KeBaytzah]] of bread and a lot of fruit but not more. Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 77:15 agrees. See Rav Mordechai Eliyahu's comment on Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 77:15 where he writes that we only rely on this in situations of pressing need.</ref> | ||
#The custom is to be lenient to permit eating even more than a Kabaytzah of baked [[Mezonot]] (cakes and cookies) before [[Mussaf]] after having made [[Kiddish]].<ref>Shaar HaTziyun 286:7 writes that the measure for a meal before [[mussaf]] in regards to baked [[mezonot]] is the same as by [[Sukkah]]. Mishna Brurah 639:15-6 (regarding [[Sukkah]]) quotes some who say that if one establishes a meal out of the [[Pas HaBah Bekisnin]] certainly it requires a [[Sukkah]]. However, if one didn’t have it as a meal if one had more than a [[KeBaytzah]] then there’s a dispute whether one needs a [[Sukkah]] and if one eats less than a [[KeBaytzah]] then certainly it doesn’t require a [[Sukkah]]. Nonetheless, Halichot Shlomo ([[Tefillah]] 14:9, pg 179-80) writes that the minhag is to lenient to have even more than a Kabaytzah of baked [[mezonot]]. </ref> | #The custom is to be lenient to permit eating even more than a Kabaytzah of baked [[Mezonot]] (cakes and cookies) before [[Mussaf]] after having made [[Kiddish]].<ref>Shaar HaTziyun 286:7 writes that the measure for a meal before [[mussaf]] in regards to baked [[mezonot]] is the same as by [[Sukkah]]. Mishna Brurah 639:15-6 (regarding [[Sukkah]]) quotes some who say that if one establishes a meal out of the [[Pas HaBah Bekisnin]] certainly it requires a [[Sukkah]]. However, if one didn’t have it as a meal if one had more than a [[KeBaytzah]] then there’s a dispute whether one needs a [[Sukkah]] and if one eats less than a [[KeBaytzah]] then certainly it doesn’t require a [[Sukkah]]. Nonetheless, Halichot Shlomo ([[Tefillah]] 14:9, pg 179-80) writes that the minhag is to lenient to have even more than a Kabaytzah of baked [[mezonot]]. </ref> | ||
#If one does eat before [[Mussaf]] one must first | #If one does eat before [[Mussaf]] one must first recite [[Kiddish]] and have a [[Revi'it]] of wine or eat a [[Kezayit]] of baked [[mezonot]] (cakes and cookies) in order to fulfill [[Kiddish]].<ref>Magen Avraham 286:1, Beiur Halacha 286:3 s.v. Achilat, Mishna Brurah 286:7, Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 52:17</ref> It is good practice to repeat Kiddish at the bread meal if he recited Kiddish the first time before Mussaf.<ref>Shemirat Shabbat Kehilchata 52:16 citing Yabia Omer 5:22:4 relying on the opinion that the mitzvah of Kiddish doesn't apply until after Mussaf.</ref> | ||
==The Cup for Kiddish== | ==The Cup for Kiddish== | ||
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==Eating before Kiddish== | ==Eating before Kiddish== | ||
#It is forbidden to eat anything before [[Kiddish]]. Some explain that it is because generally it is forbidden to eat before performing a mitzvah that one is obligated in.<ref>Levush 271:4, Ateret Tzvi 271:3, Mishna Brurah 271:11</ref> Others contend that it is based on [[kavod Shabbat]], honoring Shabbat, to not eat before acknowledging and declaring the sanctity of the day.<ref>Aruch Hashulchan 271:12</ref> A third suggestion is that Kiddush has to be the rabbis derive from "VeKarasa LiShabbos Oneg" <ref>Isiah </ref> "And you shall call to the [[Shabbos]] a delight", that there has to be a "calling" to the [[Shabbos]], meaning saying Kiddush, in the same place and also prior to it being "a delight", referring to eating/drinking.<ref>Igrot Moshe OC 4:63 s.v. aval af explained based on the Rashbam and Tosfot Pesachim 101a the prohibition to eat before kiddush would be based on the idea of וקראת לשבת עונג - במקום קריאה שם תהא עונג that the meal may only be had where kiddush is recited and not elsewhere or beforehand.</ref> | #It is forbidden to eat anything before [[Kiddish]]. Some explain that it is because generally it is forbidden to eat before performing a mitzvah that one is obligated in.<ref>Levush 271:4, Ateret Tzvi 271:3, Mishna Brurah 271:11</ref> Others contend that it is based on [[kavod Shabbat]], honoring Shabbat, to not eat before acknowledging and declaring the sanctity of the day.<ref>Aruch Hashulchan 271:12</ref> A third suggestion is that Kiddush has to be the rabbis derive from "VeKarasa LiShabbos Oneg"<ref>Isiah </ref> "And you shall call to the [[Shabbos]] a delight", that there has to be a "calling" to the [[Shabbos]], meaning saying Kiddush, in the same place and also prior to it being "a delight", referring to eating/drinking.<ref>Igrot Moshe OC 4:63 s.v. aval af explained based on the Rashbam and Tosfot Pesachim 101a the prohibition to eat before kiddush would be based on the idea of וקראת לשבת עונג - במקום קריאה שם תהא עונג that the meal may only be had where kiddush is recited and not elsewhere or beforehand.</ref> | ||
#It's Rabbinically<ref>Mishna Brurah 271:11 writes that the prohibition is only Rabbinic. </ref> forbidden to eat anything even water<ref>[[Maggid]] Mishna (Hilchot [[Shabbat]] 29:5) explains that the Rambam holds drinking water before [[Kiddish]] is permitted, while the Rashba (Sh"t 3:264) forbids it. Hagahot Maimon 29:5 in name of Maharam as well as the Tur 271:4 also forbid. Bet Yosef says that the Rambam is unclear and may hold that even water is forbidden. Shulchan Aruch O.C. 271:4 rules that even water is forbidden. </ref> before making [[Kiddish]] once the time for [[Kiddish]] has come.<ref>Pesachim 106b records a dispute whether one who tasted food before [[Kiddish]] can still make [[Kiddish]]. Bet Yosef 271:4 implies from there that initially it is forbidden to eat or drink before [[Kiddish]]. Rambam (Hilchot [[Shabbat]] 29:5), Tur and Shulchan Aruch 271:4 all rule that it's forbidden to eat before making [[Kiddish]]. </ref> This applies to the nighttime and daytime Kiddush.<ref>Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 77:13</ref> | #It's Rabbinically<ref>Mishna Brurah 271:11 writes that the prohibition is only Rabbinic. </ref> forbidden to eat anything even water<ref>[[Maggid]] Mishna (Hilchot [[Shabbat]] 29:5) explains that the Rambam holds drinking water before [[Kiddish]] is permitted, while the Rashba (Sh"t 3:264) forbids it. Hagahot Maimon 29:5 in name of Maharam as well as the Tur 271:4 also forbid. Bet Yosef says that the Rambam is unclear and may hold that even water is forbidden. Shulchan Aruch O.C. 271:4 rules that even water is forbidden. </ref> before making [[Kiddish]] once the time for [[Kiddish]] has come.<ref>Pesachim 106b records a dispute whether one who tasted food before [[Kiddish]] can still make [[Kiddish]]. Bet Yosef 271:4 implies from there that initially it is forbidden to eat or drink before [[Kiddish]]. Rambam (Hilchot [[Shabbat]] 29:5), Tur and Shulchan Aruch 271:4 all rule that it's forbidden to eat before making [[Kiddish]]. </ref> This applies to the nighttime and daytime Kiddush.<ref>Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 77:13</ref> | ||
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=== Someone who is Sick === | === Someone who is Sick === | ||
#Someone who is sick and needs to eat before davening on Shabbat, according to Ashkenazim should recite Kiddush beforehand unless one doesn't eat a kezayit of mezonot within a kdei achilat pras,<ref>Mishna Brurah (Biur Halacha 289:1 s.v. chovat) and Igrot Moshe OC 2:26:2 write that someone who is sick and needs to eat before davening on Shabbat should make kiddush unless he doesn't need to eat pat haba bekisnin. Piskei Teshuvot 289:8 note 63 writes that the best option is for the sick person not to have a kezayit of pat haba bekisnin within a kedi achilat pras which wouldn't obligate kiddush.</ref> while according to Sephardim it isn't necessary.<ref>Yabia Omer OC 8:31 and Or Letzion 2:20:14 write that someone who is sick and needs to eat before davening on Shabbat does not need to make kiddush. See also Kaf Hachaim 276:28 who is lenient in extenuating circumstances. See Chazon Ovadia (Shabbat v. 2 p. 149) where Rav Ovadia recommends that a sick person who needs to eat bread or pat haba bekisnin before davening should recite kiddush.</ref> | #Someone who is sick and needs to eat before davening on Shabbat, according to Ashkenazim should recite Kiddush beforehand unless one doesn't eat a kezayit of mezonot within a kdei achilat pras,<ref>Mishna Brurah (Biur Halacha 289:1 s.v. chovat) and Igrot Moshe OC 2:26:2 write that someone who is sick and needs to eat before davening on Shabbat should make kiddush unless he doesn't need to eat pat haba bekisnin. Piskei Teshuvot 289:8 note 63 writes that the best option is for the sick person not to have a kezayit of pat haba bekisnin within a kedi achilat pras which wouldn't obligate kiddush.</ref> while according to Sephardim it isn't necessary.<ref>Yabia Omer OC 8:31 and Or Letzion 2:20:14 write that someone who is sick and needs to eat before davening on Shabbat does not need to make kiddush. See also Kaf Hachaim 276:28 who is lenient in extenuating circumstances. See Chazon Ovadia (Shabbat v. 2 p. 149) where Rav Ovadia recommends that a sick person who needs to eat bread or pat haba bekisnin before davening should recite kiddush.</ref> | ||
#If someone needs to eat after Shacharit before Mussaf he should make Kiddish. If he doesn't have wine or another drink to make Kiddish upon, he still may eat fruit or pat haba bkisnin.<ref>Shemirat Shabbat Kehilchata 52:15</ref> | |||
=== Children === | |||
#It is permitted for children to eat before Kiddish before by night and day. This applies even if he reached the age of chinuch.<ref>Shemirat Shabbat Kehilchata 52:18 is lenient since when eating before Kiddish the food itself isn't forbidden. It is just a forbidden time and since the child needs the food it is permitted.</ref> | |||
=== Women === | |||
#A woman who usually davens Shacharit before eating should also do so on Shabbat. She may drink just like men.<ref>Shemirat Shabbat Kehilchata 52:13</ref> | |||
#If she's sick and needs to eat before davening she does not have to recite Kiddish. However, if she usually does not daven Shacharit at all or she davens after she eats because she relies on reciting the opinion that she only has to recite some request from Hashem to fulfill the mitzvah of davening, she should recite Kiddish before eating.<ref>Shemirat Shabbat Kehilchata 52:13</ref> In an extenuating circumstance when she's weak doesn't have wine she may eat without Kiddish.<ref>Shemirat Shabbat Kehilchata 52:13 quoting Minchat Yitzchak 4:28:3 who includes a factor of relying on Maharam Chalavah that women are not obligated in Kiddish during the day.</ref> | |||
==Timing== | ==Timing== | ||
