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Interest with Non-Jews: Difference between revisions
From Halachipedia
→Non-Jew Borrowed from Jew with Collateral and Jewish Agent
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# If the original Jew wants to get his security deposit back from the other Jew who lent to the non-Jew and the non-Jew isn't cooperating, the lender Jew doesn't need to work with the borrower Jew since they didn't have any transaction one to another.<ref>Rosh responsa 108:8, Rama 168:9</ref> | # If the original Jew wants to get his security deposit back from the other Jew who lent to the non-Jew and the non-Jew isn't cooperating, the lender Jew doesn't need to work with the borrower Jew since they didn't have any transaction one to another.<ref>Rosh responsa 108:8, Rama 168:9</ref> | ||
# If a Jew has a security deposit of a non-Jew in his hands and the non-Jew direct him to use it to borrow from another Jew with interest on his behalf, the first Jew may do so.<ref>Mordechai 337 writes that a Jew can use a non-Jew's security deposit to borrow from a Jew with interest if he is instructed so by the non-Jew. The Mordechai seems to apply this even to the case where the Jew didn't have the non-Jew's deposit but instead wanted to gift him a deposit of his own for its value. The Bet Yosef is troubled by this leniency since there's no mechanism by which the non-Jew is actually acquiring the deposit. Taz 168:14 gives a nuanced explanation that it was sold to the second Jew with a condition that the non-Jew could buy it back. Bach 168:13 and Nekudat Hakesef 168:11 explain that once a owner admits to the fact someone else owns his item it halachically belongs to that person (''kinyan odita'') and that is sufficient to remove the prohibition of ribbit. Either way, the Rama 169:11 concludes that we assume that it is impossible to gift a deposit to a non-Jew without him making a physical [[kinyan]] such as meshicha.</ref> | # If a Jew has a security deposit of a non-Jew in his hands and the non-Jew direct him to use it to borrow from another Jew with interest on his behalf, the first Jew may do so.<ref>Mordechai 337 writes that a Jew can use a non-Jew's security deposit to borrow from a Jew with interest if he is instructed so by the non-Jew. The Mordechai seems to apply this even to the case where the Jew didn't have the non-Jew's deposit but instead wanted to gift him a deposit of his own for its value. The Bet Yosef is troubled by this leniency since there's no mechanism by which the non-Jew is actually acquiring the deposit. Taz 168:14 gives a nuanced explanation that it was sold to the second Jew with a condition that the non-Jew could buy it back. Bach 168:13 and Nekudat Hakesef 168:11 explain that once a owner admits to the fact someone else owns his item it halachically belongs to that person (''kinyan odita'') and that is sufficient to remove the prohibition of ribbit. Either way, the Rama 169:11 concludes that we assume that it is impossible to gift a deposit to a non-Jew without him making a physical [[kinyan]] such as meshicha.</ref> | ||
====Jew Borrowed from Non-Jew and then Non-Jew Borrows from Jew==== | |||
# If a Jew borrowed from a non-Jew with a collateral and then the non-Jew for his own purposes borrowed from another Jew with the same collateral it is permitted for the second Jew to collect interest from the non-Jew, even if the non-Jew will in turn force the first Jew to pay interest.<ref>Tur 168:20 quotes the Baal Haitur that if a Jew borrowed from a non-Jew with a collateral and now the non-Jew is borrowing from another Jew with the same collateral the second Jew may not accept the interest from the non-Jew since it is as though it is coming from the Jew. However, the Rosh Pesachim 2:10 and Rashba 3:229 disagree. Once the Jew borrows from the non-Jew it is completely permitted and if the non-Jew then borrows from another Jew that is disconnected. The Bet Yosef 168:20 cites the Ran b”m 71b s.v. veharamban and Baal Hatrumot 46:4:10 who side with the Baal Haitur. Yet, the Baal Hatrumot adds that if the non-Jew accepts responsibility for the loan he’s taking from the second Jew it is permitted. Shulchan Aruch 168:20 cites the Rosh and Rashba as the main opinion and the Baal Haitur as some say.</ref> | |||
====Non-Jew Borrowed from Jew with Collateral and Jewish Agent==== | ====Non-Jew Borrowed from Jew with Collateral and Jewish Agent==== | ||
#A Jewish agent brought a collateral from a non-Jew to another Jew in order to borrow with interest. After the loan is due, the lender Jew can ask the agent to show him which non-Jew he lent to but can not ask the agent to pay for the asked the agent to redeem the non-Jew’s collateral and pay for the loan.<ref>Bet Yosef 168:27 cites the Rashba 3:47 who speaks of a case where a Jew brought a collateral from a non-Jew to another Jew in order to borrow with interest, then the lender Jew asked the agent to redeem the non-Jew’s collateral and pay for the loan. The Rashba rules that it is forbidden for the agent Jew to pay the loan and interest since he is merely an agent. He must though indicate to the lender Jew who is the non-Jew who borrowed the money. Shulchan Aruch YD 168:27 codifies the Rashba. Shach 168:83 explains that the agent has no responsibility to sell or buy the collateral from the lender.</ref> | #A Jewish agent brought a collateral from a non-Jew to another Jew in order to borrow with interest. After the loan is due, the lender Jew can ask the agent to show him which non-Jew he lent to but can not ask the agent to pay for the asked the agent to redeem the non-Jew’s collateral and pay for the loan.<ref>Bet Yosef 168:27 cites the Rashba 3:47 who speaks of a case where a Jew brought a collateral from a non-Jew to another Jew in order to borrow with interest, then the lender Jew asked the agent to redeem the non-Jew’s collateral and pay for the loan. The Rashba rules that it is forbidden for the agent Jew to pay the loan and interest since he is merely an agent. He must though indicate to the lender Jew who is the non-Jew who borrowed the money. Shulchan Aruch YD 168:27 codifies the Rashba. Shach 168:83 explains that the agent has no responsibility to sell or buy the collateral from the lender.</ref> | ||
