Interactions with Non-Religious Jews: Difference between revisions
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## Rav Elyashiv's opinion was that there is a doubt whether they are a tinok shenishba or not and we're strict for both possibilities.<ref>Rav Elyashiv: Laws of Outreach p. 102 quotes a dispute as to the opinion of Rav Elyashiv. From many sources he concludes that it was a doubt. Ashrei Harish v. 2 p. 14, 2:18:2, Birchat Avraham R"H 17a n. 15, Birur Hatahara ch. 9 fnt. 34, Bshivilei Haparsha p. 498, Hilchot Shabbat Bshabato v. 3 p. 460 quote Rav Elyashiv as holding modern non-religious Jews aren't tinok shenishba since they're aware of Orthodox Jews. Sh"t Divrei Chachamim p. 282, Kuntres Aliba Dhilchata v. 61 p. 34 quote Rav Elyashiv as holding that non-religious Jews who were raised in non-religious homes are tinokot shenishbau. Ashrei Harish YD 70:7 he adds the approach that they are a tinok shenishba as a factor. Laws of Outreach p. 103 fnt. 28 quotes Rav Moshe Elyashiv in the name of his father that it depends on several factors: how much interaction did this person have with Orthodox Jews and what is the halacha that this affects. Kovetz Ateret Shlomo v. p. 82 quotes Rav Elyashiv as holding that for all intents and purposes we need to be strict as though they aren't a tinok shenishba and as though they are a tinok shenishba. Aliba Dhilchata 67:23 and Peninei Tefilah p. 129 agree.</ref> | ## Rav Elyashiv's opinion was that there is a doubt whether they are a tinok shenishba or not and we're strict for both possibilities.<ref>Rav Elyashiv: Laws of Outreach p. 102 quotes a dispute as to the opinion of Rav Elyashiv. From many sources he concludes that it was a doubt. Ashrei Harish v. 2 p. 14, 2:18:2, Birchat Avraham R"H 17a n. 15, Birur Hatahara ch. 9 fnt. 34, Bshivilei Haparsha p. 498, Hilchot Shabbat Bshabato v. 3 p. 460 quote Rav Elyashiv as holding modern non-religious Jews aren't tinok shenishba since they're aware of Orthodox Jews. Sh"t Divrei Chachamim p. 282, Kuntres Aliba Dhilchata v. 61 p. 34 quote Rav Elyashiv as holding that non-religious Jews who were raised in non-religious homes are tinokot shenishbau. Ashrei Harish YD 70:7 he adds the approach that they are a tinok shenishba as a factor. Laws of Outreach p. 103 fnt. 28 quotes Rav Moshe Elyashiv in the name of his father that it depends on several factors: how much interaction did this person have with Orthodox Jews and what is the halacha that this affects. Kovetz Ateret Shlomo v. p. 82 quotes Rav Elyashiv as holding that for all intents and purposes we need to be strict as though they aren't a tinok shenishba and as though they are a tinok shenishba. Aliba Dhilchata 67:23 and Peninei Tefilah p. 129 agree.</ref> | ||
##Rav Moshe Feinstein held that we can't apply tinok shenishba status to someone who lived near an Orthodox community and was aware of religious Jews. However, Jews who didn't know of religious Jews can be considered tinokot shenishbau.<Ref>Rav Moshe Feinstein: Igrot Moshe OC 5:28 implies that if they're aware of a Orthodox Jewish communities and its rabbis he isn't a tinok shenishba. This is strongly emphasized as well in Igrot Moshe EH 1:82:11 that Jews who were raise to be non-religious but lived in places were there were Orthodox Jews are mumarim and invalid for testimony (in order to invalidate a wedding). These ideas are echoed in many places such as: Igrot Moshe EH 2:20 and OC 1:33. Specifically he writes that someone who desecrates Shabbat publicly is a mumar even today. He disagrees with the Binyan Tzion since the non-religious Jews knows that a Jew can't violate Shabbat. However, Igrot Moshe OC 4:91:6 writes that conservative and reform Jews are tinokot shenishbau. Igrot Moshe OC 3:12 also implies that someone who is a kofer because of his upbringing is a tinok shenishba. Similarly, Jewish Observer June 1973, Rav Dovid Feinstein Vdibarta Bam 265:2 quote Rav Moshe as holding that non-religious Jews are tinokot shenishbau. Laws of Outreach p. 107 quotes Rav Reuven Feinstein, Rav Avraham Feinstein, and students of Rav Chanoch Lubavitch quote Rav Moshe as distinguishing between Jews who lived near an Orthodox community as being mumarim and Jews who lived "out of town" as being tinokot shenishbau.</ref> | ##Rav Moshe Feinstein held that we can't apply tinok shenishba status to someone who lived near an Orthodox community and was aware of religious Jews. However, Jews who didn't know of religious Jews can be considered tinokot shenishbau.<Ref>Rav Moshe Feinstein: Igrot Moshe OC 5:28 implies that if they're aware of a Orthodox Jewish communities and its rabbis he isn't a tinok shenishba. This is strongly emphasized as well in Igrot Moshe EH 1:82:11 that Jews who were raise to be non-religious but lived in places were there were Orthodox Jews are mumarim and invalid for testimony (in order to invalidate a wedding). These ideas are echoed in many places such as: Igrot Moshe EH 2:20 and OC 1:33. Specifically he writes that someone who desecrates Shabbat publicly is a mumar even today. He disagrees with the Binyan Tzion since the non-religious Jews knows that a Jew can't violate Shabbat. However, Igrot Moshe OC 4:91:6 writes that conservative and reform Jews are tinokot shenishbau. Igrot Moshe OC 3:12 also implies that someone who is a kofer because of his upbringing is a tinok shenishba. Similarly, Jewish Observer June 1973, Rav Dovid Feinstein Vdibarta Bam 265:2 quote Rav Moshe as holding that non-religious Jews are tinokot shenishbau. Laws of Outreach p. 107 quotes Rav Reuven Feinstein, Rav Avraham Feinstein, and students of Rav Chanoch Lubavitch quote Rav Moshe as distinguishing between Jews who lived near an Orthodox community as being mumarim and Jews who lived "out of town" as being tinokot shenishbau.</ref> | ||
##Rav Ovadia Yosef held similarly that it depends on whether they were familiar with a Torah community. In practice that could mean non-religious Israelis | ##Rav Ovadia Yosef held similarly that it depends on whether they were familiar with a Torah community. In practice that could mean non-religious Israelis and "in town" Americans are not considered tinokot shenishbau.<ref> Rav Ovadia Yosef (Yabia Omer OC 10:55) and Rav Binyamin Zilber (Az Nidbaru 9:55): It depends on whether they are familiar with Torah observant communities or not.</ref> | ||
## Rav Asher Weiss held that non-religious Israelis are tinokot shenishbau since they have developed a disdain for Orthodoxy because of the media.<Ref>Minchat Asher 1:10 applies tinok shenishbau to Israelis unlike what some quote from Rav Elyashiv since they have developed a disdain for Orthodoxy because of the media.</ref> | ## Rav Asher Weiss held that non-religious Israelis are tinokot shenishbau since they have developed a disdain for Orthodoxy because of the media.<Ref>Minchat Asher 1:10 applies tinok shenishbau to Israelis unlike what some quote from Rav Elyashiv since they have developed a disdain for Orthodoxy because of the media.</ref> | ||
## Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach held that non-regiligous Israelis are not considered tinokot shenishbau.<ref> Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (Halichot Shlomo Pesach pp. 326-7 and Madenei Shlomo p. 27) generally held that Jews who were ever exposed to a religious Jews such as non-religious Israelis are mumarim. But in particular cases he allowed certain things such as counting them for a minyan (Rivevot Efraim 6:402).</ref> | ## Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach held that non-regiligous Israelis are not considered tinokot shenishbau.<ref> Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (Halichot Shlomo Pesach pp. 326-7 and Madenei Shlomo p. 27) generally held that Jews who were ever exposed to a religious Jews such as non-religious Israelis are mumarim. But in particular cases he allowed certain things such as counting them for a minyan (Rivevot Efraim 6:402).</ref> | ||
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==Mourning== | ==Mourning== | ||
#We mourn over the loss of a Jew who wasn’t religious nowadays. <ref>Chazon Ovadia Aveilut v. 1 p. 538. His three reasons are the perhaps he did teshuva (Yad Yitzchak 3:149), perhaps avoiding mourning would lead to ayvah (Maharshag YD 1:25:6), and perhaps he was a tinok she’nishba (Emet LYakov 345:218).</ref> See [[Shiva#Who and For Whom Does One "Sit Shiva"]] for details. | #We mourn over the loss of a Jew who wasn’t religious nowadays.<ref>Chazon Ovadia Aveilut v. 1 p. 538. His three reasons are the perhaps he did teshuva (Yad Yitzchak 3:149), perhaps avoiding mourning would lead to ayvah (Maharshag YD 1:25:6), and perhaps he was a tinok she’nishba (Emet LYakov 345:218).</ref> See [[Shiva#Who and For Whom Does One "Sit Shiva"]] for details. | ||
#Many of those who aren’t religious today are considered a tinok she’nishba because they were raised with faulty beliefs.<ref>Rambam Mamrim 3:3, Darkei Moshe 159:3, Chazon Ish YD 2:28, Shivat Tzion Chadashot 23, Chazon Ovadia Aveilut v. 1 p. 538, Emet LYakov 345:218, Melamed Lhoil 29</ref> Other poskim are hesitant to apply tinok shenishba to many irreligious Jews today.<ref>See Igrot Moshe 2:50-51, 3:12. See at much greater length: https://orot.ac.il/sites/default/files/9-10.pdf</ref> | #Many of those who aren’t religious today are considered a tinok she’nishba because they were raised with faulty beliefs.<ref>Rambam Mamrim 3:3, Darkei Moshe 159:3, Chazon Ish YD 2:28, Shivat Tzion Chadashot 23, Chazon Ovadia Aveilut v. 1 p. 538, Emet LYakov 345:218, Melamed Lhoil 29</ref> Other poskim are hesitant to apply tinok shenishba to many irreligious Jews today.<ref>See Igrot Moshe 2:50-51, 3:12. See at much greater length: https://orot.ac.il/sites/default/files/9-10.pdf</ref> | ||
