Hotzaah: Difference between revisions
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#Once the slope is 10 tefachim high within 4 amot, the area that slopes above it is considered within the walls of a reshut hayachid.<ref>Maharshal (Shabbat 100a s.v. bdibur hamatchil tel) explains that Rashi holds that even the slope is also considered a reshut hayachid once the slope reaches 10 tefachim high within 4 amot of distance.</ref> Some argue that it isn't a reshut hayachid until the area flattens out on top.<ref>Chazon Ish 108:9. Tosfot Shabbat 5b s.v. kotel writes that a slanted wall which is less than 10 tefachim from the ground is considered like a reshut harabbim only if people place items on top of it. Tosfot implies that people didn't use the slanted wall, it would be considered a karmelit according to its dimensions. Ramban disagrees and argues that a slanted wall is like a straight wall and the side of it is considered airspace of the reshut harabbim. Rashba defends Tosfot by saying that the side of a wall is the airspace of a reshut harabbim, but a slanted wall is considered a new domain since there is a place upon it to place items. Chazon Ish applies this discussion to a slope of a tel hamelaket above 10 tefachim. According to Ramban, since it is like a wall, the surface is considered the airspace of the domain below. In practice it would be a makom patur since it is 10 tefachim above a reshut harabbim. Even though according to Tosfot it seems that the slope is considered a new domain and should be a reshut hayachid, Chazon Ish explains that isn't the case. Tosfot fundamentally agrees with Ramban, though he considers the sloped wall to be a new domain since no one can walk below it and can't be called airspace. However, above ten tefachim where walking below it is irrelevant Tosfot agrees with Ramban. Machaneh Yisrael (12:16:5 p. 293) rejects Chazon Ish's conclusion because it is against the Rashba and also Ritva Eruvin 90a. Machaneh Yisrael holds like Maharshal. Netivot Shabbat ch. 16 fnt. 19 quotes the dispute between Maharshal and Chazon Ish.</ref> | #Once the slope is 10 tefachim high within 4 amot, the area that slopes above it is considered within the walls of a reshut hayachid.<ref>Maharshal (Shabbat 100a s.v. bdibur hamatchil tel) explains that Rashi holds that even the slope is also considered a reshut hayachid once the slope reaches 10 tefachim high within 4 amot of distance.</ref> Some argue that it isn't a reshut hayachid until the area flattens out on top.<ref>Chazon Ish 108:9. Tosfot Shabbat 5b s.v. kotel writes that a slanted wall which is less than 10 tefachim from the ground is considered like a reshut harabbim only if people place items on top of it. Tosfot implies that people didn't use the slanted wall, it would be considered a karmelit according to its dimensions. Ramban disagrees and argues that a slanted wall is like a straight wall and the side of it is considered airspace of the reshut harabbim. Rashba defends Tosfot by saying that the side of a wall is the airspace of a reshut harabbim, but a slanted wall is considered a new domain since there is a place upon it to place items. Chazon Ish applies this discussion to a slope of a tel hamelaket above 10 tefachim. According to Ramban, since it is like a wall, the surface is considered the airspace of the domain below. In practice it would be a makom patur since it is 10 tefachim above a reshut harabbim. Even though according to Tosfot it seems that the slope is considered a new domain and should be a reshut hayachid, Chazon Ish explains that isn't the case. Tosfot fundamentally agrees with Ramban, though he considers the sloped wall to be a new domain since no one can walk below it and can't be called airspace. However, above ten tefachim where walking below it is irrelevant Tosfot agrees with Ramban. Machaneh Yisrael (12:16:5 p. 293) rejects Chazon Ish's conclusion because it is against the Rashba and also Ritva Eruvin 90a. Machaneh Yisrael holds like Maharshal. Netivot Shabbat ch. 16 fnt. 19 quotes the dispute between Maharshal and Chazon Ish.</ref> | ||
# The slope is considered a wall where it reaches 10 tefachim within 4 amot. That is the top of the slope is where it is considered to be a the wall and not the bottom of the slope.<ref>Rashi Shabbat 100a s.v. tel and s.v. otto. Machaneh Yisrael (12:18 p. 294) writes that only the top of the slope where it reaches 10 tefachim within 4 amot is considered a wall and not the bottom of the slope.</ref> | # The slope is considered a wall where it reaches 10 tefachim within 4 amot. That is the top of the slope is where it is considered to be a the wall and not the bottom of the slope.<ref>Rashi Shabbat 100a s.v. tel and s.v. otto. Machaneh Yisrael (12:18 p. 294) writes that only the top of the slope where it reaches 10 tefachim within 4 amot is considered a wall and not the bottom of the slope.</ref> | ||
# If the slope becomes more gradual in the middle but altogether over 4 amot it reaches a height of 10 tefachim (Picture #3), many poskim hold it is considered a wall. The main point is that as a whole the area of 4 amot has a slope that rises 10 tefachim but it is irrelevant what the slope is at any point.<ref>Tosefet Shabbat 345:2, Sfat Emet (Shabbat 100a s.v. amar rav). Mishna Brurah (Biur Halacha 358:2 s.v. v'im) seems to also be other this opinion as he compares two vertical walls split by some horizontal distance to be a wall if altogether it is 10 tefachim tall over 4 amot. </ref> Other poskim hold that this would not constitute a wall. Any part of the slope which is more gradual than 24.6 degrees is not considered a wall at all is a break in the wall. If the break is larger than 4 tefachim it breaks up the two parts of the slope completely.<ref>Chazon Ish 65:62 and 111:4 writes that if at any point if the slope it becomes more gradual than 24.6 degrees that part is not considered part of the slope and would break it up if it is wider than 3 tefachim. That is true even if altogether the slope is 10 tefachim tall within 4 amot. However, in 65:70 he prefers the logic that it would be a wall unless it is broken up with an area of 4 tefachim. In 111:4 he also uses the width of 4 tefachim. Netivot Shabbat 16:8 codifies the Chazon Ish.</ref> | # If the slope becomes more gradual in the middle but altogether over 4 amot it reaches a height of 10 tefachim (Picture #3), many poskim hold it is considered a wall. The main point is that as a whole the area of 4 amot has a slope that rises 10 tefachim but it is irrelevant what the slope is at any point.<ref>Tosefet Shabbat 345:2, Sfat Emet (Shabbat 100a s.v. amar rav). Mishna Brurah (Biur Halacha 358:2 s.v. v'im) seems to also be other this opinion as he compares two vertical walls split by some horizontal distance to be a wall if altogether it is 10 tefachim tall over 4 amot. </ref> Other poskim hold that this would not constitute a wall. Any part of the slope which is more gradual than 24.6 degrees is not considered a wall at all is a break in the wall. If the break is larger than 4 tefachim it breaks up the two parts of the slope completely.<ref>Chazon Ish 65:62 and 111:4 writes that if at any point if the slope it becomes more gradual than 24.6 degrees that part is not considered part of the slope and would break it up if it is wider than 3 tefachim. That is true even if altogether the slope is 10 tefachim tall within 4 amot. However, in 65:70 he prefers the logic that it would be a wall unless it is broken up with an area of 4 tefachim. In 111:4 he also uses the width of 4 tefachim. Netivot Shabbat 16:8 codifies the Chazon Ish, though in footnote he notes Tosefet Shabbat and Biur Halacha's view.</ref> | ||
#If the slope is broken up with a width of more than 4 tefachim (Picture #4), even though each slope is at least 24.6 degrees, some poskim it doesn't join together,<ref>Chazon Ish 65:62 and 70</ref> while others hold it can join together.<ref>Gra 358:2, Biur Halacha 358:2 s.v. v'im. Trumat Hadeshen cited by Rama 358:2 writes that a 9.5 tefach wall of dirt of a width of 4 tefachim next to a 19 tefach stone wall is considered as though the dirt wall is a new ground and the stone wall is broken since it isn't 10 tefachim above the dirt wall. Gra 358:2 argues that the two walls should combine, even though there is a flat ground of 4 tefachim on top of the dirt wall between them. Biur Halacha 358:2 s.v. v'im writes that everyone should agree that the walls can combine as long as altogether there is a height of 10 tefachim within 4 amot. Chazon Ish notes that his argument is against Gra. </ref> | #If the slope is broken up with a width of more than 4 tefachim (Picture #4), even though each slope is at least 24.6 degrees, some poskim it doesn't join together,<ref>Chazon Ish 65:62 and 70</ref> while others hold it can join together.<ref>Gra 358:2, Biur Halacha 358:2 s.v. v'im. Trumat Hadeshen cited by Rama 358:2 writes that a 9.5 tefach wall of dirt of a width of 4 tefachim next to a 19 tefach stone wall is considered as though the dirt wall is a new ground and the stone wall is broken since it isn't 10 tefachim above the dirt wall. Gra 358:2 argues that the two walls should combine, even though there is a flat ground of 4 tefachim on top of the dirt wall between them. Biur Halacha 358:2 s.v. v'im writes that everyone should agree that the walls can combine as long as altogether there is a height of 10 tefachim within 4 amot. Chazon Ish notes that his argument is against Gra. Biur Halacha 362:2 s.v. sh'asa suggests that this is the dispute between Trumat Hadeshen and Gra.</ref> | ||
#If there is a slope that is 5 tefachim within 2 amot or less and a wall of 5 tefachim on top of it, some say that it isn't a wall, but others argue that it is a wall.<ref>Biur Halacha 362:2 s.v. tel isn't sure about this case because perhaps only a slope that altogether with 10 tefachim tall constitutes a wall. On the other hand, it the slope of 5 tefachim could be a partial wall and joins together with the vertical wall of 5 tefachim. </ref> If there is a slope with less than 3 tefachim of height and a wall of the remaining height to reach 10 tefachim, it is questionable if that is considered a wall.<ref>Biur Halacha 362:2 s.v. tel isn't sure if this type of slope can join together with a wall, since the slope is less than 3 tefachim tall it is like part of the ground of the reshut harabbim. If so, the wall on top is ineffective unless it itself is 10 tefachim tall.</ref> | |||
<center><gallery widths=250px heights=130px mode=nolines> | <center><gallery widths=250px heights=130px mode=nolines> | ||
Image:Tel_hamelaket_24.png|Picture 1: Slope according to majority of ''poskim'' | Image:Tel_hamelaket_24.png|Picture 1: Slope according to majority of ''poskim'' | ||
