Hotzaah: Difference between revisions
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→Summary of Dispute Between Mishkenot Yakov and Bet Efraim
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# Mishkenot Yakov<ref>[https://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1095&pgnum=113 Responsa n. 120]</ref> makes 2 independent arguments<Ref>One minor argument he tacks on is that even in a mavoy mefulash there is a dispute whether a tzurat hapetach is sufficient. The Rashba and Rabbenu Yehonatan hold that doors are necessary. Even though most rishonim (Rif, Rambam, and Rosh) are lenient about this point, he brings 2 proofs from the gemara for the Rashba.</ref> to challenge all communal eruvin using tzurat hapetach. | # Mishkenot Yakov<ref>[https://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1095&pgnum=113 Responsa n. 120]</ref> makes 2 independent arguments<Ref>One minor argument he tacks on is that even in a mavoy mefulash there is a dispute whether a tzurat hapetach is sufficient. The Rashba and Rabbenu Yehonatan hold that doors are necessary. Even though most rishonim (Rif, Rambam, and Rosh) are lenient about this point, he brings 2 proofs from the gemara for the Rashba.</ref> to challenge all communal eruvin using tzurat hapetach. | ||
## He<ref>[https://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1095&pgnum=116 s.v. v'ad]</ref> enumerates 16 rishonim who hold that reshut harabbim does not need a population of 600,000 including: Rif,<ref>Eruvin 17b</ref> Rambam,<ref>Hilchot Shabbat 17:33</ref> Rabbenu Tam,<ref>Tosfot Eruvin 6a s.v. keysad, also cited by Ritva Eruvin 59a</ref> Rashbam, Raavan, Ramban, Rashba, Ritva, Ran, Hagahot Mordechai, Rivash, Rash, Riva, Ri Halevi, Mordechai, and Riaz.<ref>See, however, Piskei Riaz 5:1 where he quotes 600,000 as a requirement.</ref> Simultaneously, he argues that really only 5 rishonim hold that 600,000 is necessary including Smak, Smag, Sefer Hatrumah, Roke'ach, and Maharam. Therefore, he holds that the halacha follows those rishonim who do not require 600,000. Therefore, our cities irrelevant of its population are a reshut harabbim and a tzurat hapetach doesn't work to enclose a reshut harabbim. | ## He<ref>[https://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1095&pgnum=116 s.v. v'ad]</ref> enumerates 16 rishonim who hold that reshut harabbim does not need a population of 600,000 including: Rif,<ref>Eruvin 17b</ref> Rambam,<ref>Hilchot Shabbat 17:33</ref> Rabbenu Tam,<ref>Tosfot Eruvin 6a s.v. keysad, also cited by Ritva Eruvin 59a</ref> Rashbam, Raavan, Ramban, Rashba, Ritva, Ran, Hagahot Mordechai, Rivash, Rash, Riva, Ri Halevi, Mordechai, and Riaz.<ref>See, however, Piskei Riaz 5:1 where he quotes 600,000 as a requirement.</ref> Simultaneously, he argues that really only 5 rishonim hold that 600,000 is necessary including Smak, Smag, Sefer Hatrumah, Roke'ach, and Maharam. Therefore, he holds that the halacha follows those rishonim who do not require 600,000. Therefore, our cities irrelevant of its population are a reshut harabbim and a tzurat hapetach doesn't work to enclose a reshut harabbim. | ||
## Even according to those who require a population of 600,000, they agree that a wall of a tzurat hapetach is nullified by the travel of all the townspeople, even though they aren't 600,000. This argument rests on the assumption that we hold ''ayti rabbim umevatel mechitzta'' (heb. איתי רבים ומבטל מחיצתא; trans. the masses come and nullify the wall). This argument is predicated on the Hagahot Ashri. | ## Even according to those who require a population of 600,000, they agree that a wall of a tzurat hapetach is nullified by the travel of all the townspeople, even though they aren't 600,000. This argument rests on the assumption that we hold ''ayti rabbim umevatel mechitzta'' (heb. איתי רבים ומבטל מחיצתא; trans. the masses come and nullify the wall). This argument is predicated on the Hagahot Ashri.<Ref>[https://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1095&st=&pgnum=118 Mishkenot Yakov 120 s.v. amnam] based on Hagahot Ashri (Eruvin 1:8), Tosfot Eruvin 62b s.v. vrebbe, and Ritva Eruvin 22a who sound like ayti rabbim applies even in a non-reshut harabbim.</ref> | ||
## To strengthen his point that even in walled cities a tzurat hapetach is insufficient to close gaps, he argues that a gap of more than 10 amot is deoritta. His biggest proof is that Yerushalayim is considered to be a reshut harabbim in Eruvin 101a and Pesachim 66b, even though it had walls. | ## To strengthen his point that even in walled cities a tzurat hapetach is insufficient to close gaps, he argues that a gap of more than 10 amot is deoritta. His biggest proof is that Yerushalayim is considered to be a reshut harabbim in Eruvin 101a and Pesachim 66b, even though it had walls. | ||
#Bet Efraim's<ref> | #Bet Efraim's<ref>Bet Efraim 26 s.v. u'lifi zeh</ref> defense of modern eruvin is that we follow Rashi that we don't have a reshut harabbim today because our cities lack 600,000 people and the Mishkenot Yakov's understanding of the Hagahot Ashri is incorrect. Furthermore, for walled cities he adds another argument to be lenient since we follow Rabbanan who hold that there's no ''ayti rabbim''. | ||
## Bet Efraim<Ref>26 s.v. vachshava</ref> counts 25 rishonim who hold that 600,000 is necessary for a reshut harabbim. They include: Bahag, Rashi, Raavan, Smag, Smak, Roke'ach, Maharam, Rosh, Tur, Mordechai, Sefer Hatrumah, Or Zaruah, Rabbenu Simcha, Rash, Hagahot Maimoni, Hagahot Ashri, Shibolei Haleket, Maharam Rikanti, Aguda, Isur Vheter, Hagahot Iser Vheter, Mahari Vayil, Trumat Hadeshen, Sedah Lderech, and Rabbenu Yerucham. | ## Bet Efraim<Ref>26 s.v. vachshava</ref> counts 25 rishonim who hold that 600,000 is necessary for a reshut harabbim. They include: Bahag, Rashi, Raavan, Smag, Smak, Roke'ach, Maharam, Rosh, Tur, Mordechai, Sefer Hatrumah, Or Zaruah, Rabbenu Simcha, Rash, Hagahot Maimoni, Hagahot Ashri, Shibolei Haleket, Maharam Rikanti, Aguda, Isur Vheter, Hagahot Iser Vheter, Mahari Vayil, Trumat Hadeshen, Sedah Lderech, and Rabbenu Yerucham. | ||
###Part of their argument in interpreting several rishonim revolves around how to understand the Ritva's explanation of Rashi. Mishkanot Yakov explains that even Rashi meant that 600,000 doesn't actually mean that they need 600,000 people there. It just needs to be a metropolitan area that is open to the masses to live there or visit there for commerce. Bet Efraim argues that the Ritva means that 600,000 do have to live there or travel there with some frequency. If there isn't 600,000 people who live or travel over a period of time<ref>Bet Efraim isn't clear about within what span of time 600,000 must travel to that city. In passing he writes that certainly if 600,000 does not frequent there at least within two years it isn't a reshut harabbim. </ref> certainly it isn't a reshut harabbim. He accepts the Ritva's understanding of Rashi. | ###Part of their argument in interpreting several rishonim revolves around how to understand the Ritva's explanation of Rashi. Mishkanot Yakov explains that even Rashi meant that 600,000 doesn't actually mean that they need 600,000 people there. It just needs to be a metropolitan area that is open to the masses to live there or visit there for commerce. Bet Efraim argues that the Ritva means that 600,000 do have to live there or travel there with some frequency. If there isn't 600,000 people who live or travel over a period of time<ref>Bet Efraim isn't clear about within what span of time 600,000 must travel to that city. In passing he writes that certainly if 600,000 does not frequent there at least within two years it isn't a reshut harabbim. </ref> certainly it isn't a reshut harabbim. He accepts the Ritva's understanding of Rashi. | ||
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### Tangentially, Bet Efraim explains that the Rambam holds that it is sufficient to close off a reshut harabbim with doors that could close even though practically they don't close. Furthermore, he explains that perhaps Rif and Rosh agree with this. However, Shiltei Giborim, Tur and Bet Yosef 364:2 read Rif and Rosh as disputing this point. | ### Tangentially, Bet Efraim explains that the Rambam holds that it is sufficient to close off a reshut harabbim with doors that could close even though practically they don't close. Furthermore, he explains that perhaps Rif and Rosh agree with this. However, Shiltei Giborim, Tur and Bet Yosef 364:2 read Rif and Rosh as disputing this point. | ||
## Bet Efraim denies Mishkenot Yakov's claim and holds that specifically within walled cities even a gap more than 10 amot is not deoritta. His answer for Yerushalayim is that it was only a reshut harabbim when the enemies knocked down parts of the walls and more importantly the corners.<ref>Bet Efraim 27 s.v. v'al kol panim mevu'ar</ref> | ## Bet Efraim denies Mishkenot Yakov's claim and holds that specifically within walled cities even a gap more than 10 amot is not deoritta. His answer for Yerushalayim is that it was only a reshut harabbim when the enemies knocked down parts of the walls and more importantly the corners.<ref>Bet Efraim 27 s.v. v'al kol panim mevu'ar</ref> | ||
===Aruch Hashulchan=== | ===Aruch Hashulchan=== | ||
===Chazon Ish=== | ===Chazon Ish=== | ||
