Hotzaah: Difference between revisions
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→Summary of Dispute Between Mishkenot Yakov and Bet Efraim
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###Part of their argument in interpreting several rishonim revolves around how to understand the Ritva's explanation of Rashi. Mishkanot Yakov explains that even Rashi meant that 600,000 doesn't actually mean that they need 600,000 people there. It just needs to be a metropolitan area that is open to the masses to live there or visit there for commerce. Bet Efraim argues that the Ritva means that 600,000 do have to live there or travel there with some frequency. If there isn't 600,000 people who live or travel over a period of time<ref>Bet Efraim isn't clear about within what span of time 600,000 must travel to that city. In passing he writes that certainly if 600,000 does not frequent there at least within two years it isn't a reshut harabbim. </ref> certainly it isn't a reshut harabbim. He accepts the Ritva's understanding of Rashi. | ###Part of their argument in interpreting several rishonim revolves around how to understand the Ritva's explanation of Rashi. Mishkanot Yakov explains that even Rashi meant that 600,000 doesn't actually mean that they need 600,000 people there. It just needs to be a metropolitan area that is open to the masses to live there or visit there for commerce. Bet Efraim argues that the Ritva means that 600,000 do have to live there or travel there with some frequency. If there isn't 600,000 people who live or travel over a period of time<ref>Bet Efraim isn't clear about within what span of time 600,000 must travel to that city. In passing he writes that certainly if 600,000 does not frequent there at least within two years it isn't a reshut harabbim. </ref> certainly it isn't a reshut harabbim. He accepts the Ritva's understanding of Rashi. | ||
## Bet Efraim's tries to prove that we do not hold ''ayti rabbim umevatel mechitzta''. Certainly Rambam held that we do not hold ''ayti rabbim umevatel mechitzta,'' but he also proves that Rif and Rosh concur with this. Although the Ramban writes that Rif and by implication Rosh hold ''ayti rabbim umevatel mechitzta,'' the Bet Efraim disagrees. By making this argument, Bet Efraim undermines Mishkenot Yakov's second argument altogether. | ## Bet Efraim's tries to prove that we do not hold ''ayti rabbim umevatel mechitzta''. Certainly Rambam held that we do not hold ''ayti rabbim umevatel mechitzta,'' but he also proves that Rif and Rosh concur with this. Although the Ramban writes that Rif and by implication Rosh hold ''ayti rabbim umevatel mechitzta,'' the Bet Efraim disagrees. By making this argument, Bet Efraim undermines Mishkenot Yakov's second argument altogether. | ||
###Additionally, Bet Efraim argues with Mishkenot Yakov's understanding of the Hagahot Ashri.<ref>Hagahot Ashri (Eruvin 1:8) writes that a tzurat hapetach is sufficient for a ''mavoy mefulash'' only if the inhabitants of a mavoy travel through it, but if all the townspeople travel through the mavoy they would uproot the tzurat hapetach. He concludes with the words of the Ram from Ivra that this point is true even for Rashi that requires a population of 600,000. Mishkenot Yakov interpreted this to mean that even if we hold like Rashi as long as the townspeople travel on this road they invalidate a tzurat hapetach. Bet Efraim argues that he's discussing a case where there is a reshut harabbim on either side of the street in question. According to Rashi, the reshut harabbim requires 600,000 and then if there is 600,000 on either side then the street used by the townspeople in between is also a reshut harabbim.</ref> | ###Additionally, Bet Efraim argues with Mishkenot Yakov's understanding of the Hagahot Ashri. According to the Mishkenot Yakov, it is a proof that even without 600,000 a tzurat hapetach is insufficient on the roads used by everyone in town. Bet Efraim argues that without 600,000 tzurat hapetach is sufficient.<ref>Hagahot Ashri (Eruvin 1:8) writes that a tzurat hapetach is sufficient for a ''mavoy mefulash'' only if the inhabitants of a mavoy travel through it, but if all the townspeople travel through the mavoy they would uproot the tzurat hapetach. He concludes with the words of the Ram from Ivra that this point is true even for Rashi that requires a population of 600,000. Mishkenot Yakov interpreted this to mean that even if we hold like Rashi as long as the townspeople travel on this road they invalidate a tzurat hapetach. He adds that this is also the opinion of Tosfot Eruvin 62b s.v. vrabbi [quoted and accepted by Or Zaruah (2:168), Smag (Aseh Derabbanan 1), and Aguda (Eruvin 6:60)]. Bet Efraim argues that he's discussing a case where there is a reshut harabbim on either side of the street in question. According to Rashi, the reshut harabbim requires 600,000 and then if there is 600,000 on either side then the street used by the townspeople in between is also a reshut harabbim.</ref> In the same vein, they argue about the interpretation of the Maharam who writes that in an area that isn't a reshut harabbim because it lacks 600,000 but is used by the whole town can be permitted with doors. | ||
Bet Efraim reads Maharam as saying that even tzurat hapetach is sufficient, while Mishkenot Yakov argues that tzurat hapetach is insufficient and specifically doors are necessary. Igrot Moshe 1:139:3 agrees with Bet Efraim on this point. [Though, Igrot Moshe 1:139:3 writes that even the Maharam agrees with Ri in the case where there are 600,000 and is a karmelit for another reason that it needs doors and perhaps they need to be closed.] | |||
### Tangentially, Bet Efraim explains that the Rambam holds that it is sufficient to close off a reshut harabbim with doors that could close even though practically they don't close. Furthermore, he explains that perhaps Rif and Rosh agree with this. However, Shiltei Giborim, Tur and Bet Yosef 364:2 read Rif and Rosh as disputing this point. | ### Tangentially, Bet Efraim explains that the Rambam holds that it is sufficient to close off a reshut harabbim with doors that could close even though practically they don't close. Furthermore, he explains that perhaps Rif and Rosh agree with this. However, Shiltei Giborim, Tur and Bet Yosef 364:2 read Rif and Rosh as disputing this point. | ||
