Hotzaah: Difference between revisions
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→Summary of Dispute Between Mishkenot Yakov and Bet Efraim
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## Even in a mavoy mefulash there is a dispute whether a tzurat hapetach is sufficient. The Rashba and Rabbenu Yehonatan hold that doors are necessary. Even though most rishonim (Rif, Rambam, and Rosh) are lenient about this point, he brings 2 proofs from the gemara for the Rashba. | ## Even in a mavoy mefulash there is a dispute whether a tzurat hapetach is sufficient. The Rashba and Rabbenu Yehonatan hold that doors are necessary. Even though most rishonim (Rif, Rambam, and Rosh) are lenient about this point, he brings 2 proofs from the gemara for the Rashba. | ||
#Bet Efraim's<ref>Responsa 26 s.v. u'lifi zeh</ref> major defense of modern eruvin is either we follow Rashi that we don't have a reshut harabbim today because we lack cities with 600,000 people or we follow Rabbanan who hold that there's no ayti rabbim. | #Bet Efraim's<ref>Responsa 26 s.v. u'lifi zeh</ref> major defense of modern eruvin is either we follow Rashi that we don't have a reshut harabbim today because we lack cities with 600,000 people or we follow Rabbanan who hold that there's no ayti rabbim. | ||
## Bet Efraim counts 25 rishonim who hold that 600,000 is necessary for a reshut harabbim. They include: Bahag, Rashi, Raavan, Smag, Smak, Roke'ach, Maharam, Rosh, Tur, Mordechai, Sefer Hatrumah, Or Zaruah, Rabbenu Simcha, Rash, Hagahot Maimoni, Hagahot Ashri, Shibolei Haleket, Maharam Rikanti, Aguda, Isur Vheter, Hagahot Iser Vheter, Mahari Vayil, Trumat Hadeshen, Sedah Lderech, Rabbenu Yerucham | ## Bet Efraim counts 25 rishonim who hold that 600,000 is necessary for a reshut harabbim. They include: Bahag, Rashi, Raavan, Smag, Smak, Roke'ach, Maharam, Rosh, Tur, Mordechai, Sefer Hatrumah, Or Zaruah, Rabbenu Simcha, Rash, Hagahot Maimoni, Hagahot Ashri, Shibolei Haleket, Maharam Rikanti, Aguda, Isur Vheter, Hagahot Iser Vheter, Mahari Vayil, Trumat Hadeshen, Sedah Lderech, and Rabbenu Yerucham. | ||
###Part of their argument in interperting several rishonim revolves around how to understand the Ritva's explanation of Rashi. Mishkanot Yakov explains that even Rashi meant that 600,000 doesn't actually mean that they need 600,000 people there. It just needs to be a metropolitan area that is open to the masses to live there or visit there for commerce. Bet Efraim argues that the Ritva means that 600,000 do have to live there or travel there with some frequency. If there isn't 600,000 people who live or travel over a period of time< | ###Part of their argument in interperting several rishonim revolves around how to understand the Ritva's explanation of Rashi. Mishkanot Yakov explains that even Rashi meant that 600,000 doesn't actually mean that they need 600,000 people there. It just needs to be a metropolitan area that is open to the masses to live there or visit there for commerce. Bet Efraim argues that the Ritva means that 600,000 do have to live there or travel there with some frequency. If there isn't 600,000 people who live or travel over a period of time<ref>Bet Efraim isn't clear about within what span of time 600,000 must travel to that city. In passing he writes that certainly if 600,000 does not frequent there at least within two years it isn't a reshut harabbim. </ref> certainly it isn't a reshut harabbim. He accepts the Ritva's understanding of Rashi. | ||
## Bet Efraim's first argument with the Mishkenot Yakov is whether we hold that ''ayti rabbim umevatel mechitzta''. Certainly Rambam held that we do not hold ''ayti rabbim umevatel mechitzta,'' but he also proves that Rif and Rosh concur with this. Although the Ramban writes that Rif and by implication Rosh hold ''ayti rabbim umevatel mechitzta,'' the Bet Efraim disagrees. | ## Bet Efraim's first argument with the Mishkenot Yakov is whether we hold that ''ayti rabbim umevatel mechitzta''. Certainly Rambam held that we do not hold ''ayti rabbim umevatel mechitzta,'' but he also proves that Rif and Rosh concur with this. Although the Ramban writes that Rif and by implication Rosh hold ''ayti rabbim umevatel mechitzta,'' the Bet Efraim disagrees. | ||
### Tangentially, Bet Efraim explains that the Rambam holds that it is sufficient to close off a reshut harabbim with doors that could close even though practically they don't close. Furthermore, he explains that perhaps Rif and Rosh agree with this. However, Shiltei Giborim, Tur and Bet Yosef 364:2 read Rif and Rosh as disputing this point. | ### Tangentially, Bet Efraim explains that the Rambam holds that it is sufficient to close off a reshut harabbim with doors that could close even though practically they don't close. Furthermore, he explains that perhaps Rif and Rosh agree with this. However, Shiltei Giborim, Tur and Bet Yosef 364:2 read Rif and Rosh as disputing this point. | ||
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#It is forbidden to carry from Reshut HaYachid to Reshut HaRabim or a Karmelit, from a Reshut HaRabim or Karmelit to a Reshut HaYachid, from Reshut HaRabim to a Karmelit, or from a Karmelit to a Reshut HaRabim. It is permissible to carry from a Makom Patur to a Reshut HaYchid, Reshut HaRabim, or Karmelit and from these areas to a Makom Patur as long as one doesn't carry 4 [[amot]] in a Reshut HaRabim or Karmelit.<ref>Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 82:2</ref> | #It is forbidden to carry from Reshut HaYachid to Reshut HaRabim or a Karmelit, from a Reshut HaRabim or Karmelit to a Reshut HaYachid, from Reshut HaRabim to a Karmelit, or from a Karmelit to a Reshut HaRabim. It is permissible to carry from a Makom Patur to a Reshut HaYchid, Reshut HaRabim, or Karmelit and from these areas to a Makom Patur as long as one doesn't carry 4 [[amot]] in a Reshut HaRabim or Karmelit.<ref>Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 82:2</ref> | ||
#Because there are a lot of detailed and complicated halachot in defining these 4 domains, in a city where there's no Eruv, someone who isn't an expert shouldn't carry into another domain unless one knows for certain that it's permissible.<ref>Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 82:2</ref> | #Because there are a lot of detailed and complicated halachot in defining these 4 domains, in a city where there's no Eruv, someone who isn't an expert shouldn't carry into another domain unless one knows for certain that it's permissible.<ref>Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 82:2</ref> | ||
#It is permitted to carry from a private or public domain to an exempt area or from an exempt area to a private or public domain. However, one may not carry from a private domain to a public domain through an exempt area or visa versa. Similarly, one may not stand in an exempt area and transfer an item from a private domain to a public domain via the exempt area or visa versa.<ref>Shulchan Aruch 346:1</ref> | #It is permitted to carry from a private or public domain to an exempt area or from an exempt area to a private or public domain. However, one may not carry from a private domain to a public domain through an exempt area or visa versa. Similarly, one may not stand in an exempt area and transfer an item from a private domain to a public domain via the exempt area or visa versa.<ref>Shulchan Aruch O.C. 346:1</ref> | ||
#There is a dispute whether it is permitted to stand in an exempt area and transfer an item from a private domain to a Karmelit or visa versa. Similarly, there is a dispute whether it is permitted to carry from a private domain to a Karmelit or Karmelit to a private domain via an exempt area. Many poskim write that one should be strict about this case.<ref>Shulchan Aruch 346:1 quotes two opinions on the matter. Birkei Yosef 346:1 explains that Shulchan Aruch rules like the lenient opinion. The Rama 372:6 is strict on the matter. Kaf Hachaim 346:17 writes that one should be strict in order to satisfy both opinions quoted in Shulchan Aruch, but that if the item was placed down in the exempt area before being transferred there is room to be lenient. </ref> | #There is a dispute whether it is permitted to stand in an exempt area and transfer an item from a private domain to a Karmelit or visa versa. Similarly, there is a dispute whether it is permitted to carry from a private domain to a Karmelit or Karmelit to a private domain via an exempt area. Many poskim write that one should be strict about this case.<ref>Shulchan Aruch O.C. 346:1 quotes two opinions on the matter. Birkei Yosef 346:1 explains that Shulchan Aruch rules like the lenient opinion. The Rama 372:6 is strict on the matter. Kaf Hachaim 346:17 writes that one should be strict in order to satisfy both opinions quoted in Shulchan Aruch, but that if the item was placed down in the exempt area before being transferred there is room to be lenient. </ref> | ||
==Modern Day Eruv== | ==Modern Day Eruv== | ||
