Guaranteed Low Prices and Interest: Difference between revisions
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→Yatza Hashaar
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# When the buyer specifies a specific barrel at any time it is problematic and is only permitted if the buyer accepts the fact that if the price increases he will receive less commodity than originally specified.<ref>Gemara Bava Metsia 64a, Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 173:13, Chelkat Binyamin 173:146</ref> It is forbidden for the seller to accept the responsibility for the change in price.<ref>Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 173:13, Shach 173:24, Taz 173:17. Netivot Moshe on Taz 173:17 explains that essentially the Shach and Taz forbid the buyer to accept responsibility for the change in price and say that they're in disagreement with the Drisha who allowed this. However, the Netivot Moshe argues that the Drisha only allowed the buyer to accept responsibility for the change in price if the seller accepts another responsibility such as if it spoils. Chavot Daat 173:18 holds it is forbidden even in such a case.</ref> | # When the buyer specifies a specific barrel at any time it is problematic and is only permitted if the buyer accepts the fact that if the price increases he will receive less commodity than originally specified.<ref>Gemara Bava Metsia 64a, Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 173:13, Chelkat Binyamin 173:146</ref> It is forbidden for the seller to accept the responsibility for the change in price.<ref>Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 173:13, Shach 173:24, Taz 173:17. Netivot Moshe on Taz 173:17 explains that essentially the Shach and Taz forbid the buyer to accept responsibility for the change in price and say that they're in disagreement with the Drisha who allowed this. However, the Netivot Moshe argues that the Drisha only allowed the buyer to accept responsibility for the change in price if the seller accepts another responsibility such as if it spoils. Chavot Daat 173:18 holds it is forbidden even in such a case.</ref> | ||
===Yatza Hashaar=== | ===Yatza Hashaar=== | ||
# According to Ashkenazim if the price generally doesn't change for a few days then it is considered an established price. According to Sephardim every day if the price generally doesn't change for two to three months then it is considered an established price.<ref>Chelket Binyamin 175:4-5</ref> | |||
# A price is considered established even if there's a range of prices as long as it is reasonable that it is possible to be able to get the item in local stores at the price that they used for the futures sale (pesika).<ref>Chelket Binyamin 175:7</ref> | |||
# Pesika is only permitted when the price in the market is established for the quantity that one is purchasing. However, if the pricce is set for buying in bulk one can't use that when buying a future of individual items.<ref>Chavot Yair 189, Pitchei Teshuva 175:1, Chelket Binyamin 175:12. Even though the Chavot Yair writes that this is applicable to Yesh Lo as well, see the Yagel Yakov who questions this based on Shach 175:7. He answers based on the Peni Yehoshua b"m 63a that there's an idea of forbidden changing the price when there's yesh lo if it is intentionally a delayed sale.</ref> | |||
# Pesika is permitted if it is done for a Talmid Chacham and it is evident that the money isn't needed by the supplier and the purchaser could have asked for it as a favor each time and instead it was done up front for convenience then it is permitted since it isn't for the time-value of money.<Ref>Chavot Yair 189, Pitchei Teshuva 175:2, Chelkat Binyamin 175:12</ref> | |||
# Pesika with Yesh Lo one can even charge a price that is evidently cheaper for the early payment, however, when it isn't completely Yesh Lo but the item is almost ready one do pesika but only at the fair price at the time of the sale.<ref>Ri, Shach 175:7, Chelkat Binyamin 175:39</ref> Some allow charging a cheaper price with Yesh Lo even if it isn't ready as long as it is only one or two steps away from being processed.<ref>Rashi, Gra 175:5</ref> | |||
#Some say that if the item is readily available in stores, such as fruit or vegetables that are in season, silverware, kitchen ware etc, it is considered Yatza Hashaar even though the price fluctuates.<ref>Shevet Halevi 3:109 holds that the dollar in Israel is considered like peirot but still is permitted to be borrowed because it is like Yatza Hashaar since it is accessible anywhere. In his opinion anything which is accessible anywhere is considered Yatza Hashaar even if the price fluctuates. Torat Ribbit 10:4 applies the Shevet Halevi who was discussing seah bseah to the laws of poskin al hapeirot.</ref> This opinion is contested.<ref> Torat Ribbit 19:5 quotes many poskim who argue with the Shevet Halevi including the Brit Yehuda ch. 18 fnt. 15, 20:13, Kitzur Dinei Ribbit of Rav Shternbuch 3:2, 4:6, and Klala Dribita Intro n. 5.</ref> | #Some say that if the item is readily available in stores, such as fruit or vegetables that are in season, silverware, kitchen ware etc, it is considered Yatza Hashaar even though the price fluctuates.<ref>Shevet Halevi 3:109 holds that the dollar in Israel is considered like peirot but still is permitted to be borrowed because it is like Yatza Hashaar since it is accessible anywhere. In his opinion anything which is accessible anywhere is considered Yatza Hashaar even if the price fluctuates. Torat Ribbit 10:4 applies the Shevet Halevi who was discussing seah bseah to the laws of poskin al hapeirot.</ref> This opinion is contested.<ref> Torat Ribbit 19:5 quotes many poskim who argue with the Shevet Halevi including the Brit Yehuda ch. 18 fnt. 15, 20:13, Kitzur Dinei Ribbit of Rav Shternbuch 3:2, 4:6, and Klala Dribita Intro n. 5.</ref> | ||
