Guaranteed Low Prices and Interest: Difference between revisions
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→Purchasing Futures of a Commodity (Poskin Al Hapeirot)
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# When buying a future of a commodity the seller must provide the buyer with the quantity specified irrelevant of the price change or if his wares of the commodity spoiled. That isn't considered interest since it isn't clear which commodity was sold to the buyer from the beginning.<ref>Tosfot b"m 64b s.v. hay, Rashba 64a s.v. haylech, Taz 173:18, Chelkat Binyamin 173:146. Tosfot 64b asks what is the difference between buying a barrel of wine which is problematic for interest and pesika? Tosfot explains that in pesika the seller takes all responsibility if it goes down or spoils. Since it wan’t specified which fruit he'd provide it doesn’t look like ribbit, while for a barrel of wine it looks like ribbit since the seller specifies which one.</ref> However, when the seller says he is buying specifically the wine that the seller owns then there's a greater concern of interest because if it spoils and yet the seller delivers good wine it seems that the buyer is benefiting because of his advanced payment. Nonetheless, it is permitted until the time when it is normal for wine to spoil if it was spoiled before it was sold.<ref>Chelkat Binyamin 173:146</ref> | # When buying a future of a commodity the seller must provide the buyer with the quantity specified irrelevant of the price change or if his wares of the commodity spoiled. That isn't considered interest since it isn't clear which commodity was sold to the buyer from the beginning.<ref>Tosfot b"m 64b s.v. hay, Rashba 64a s.v. haylech, Taz 173:18, Chelkat Binyamin 173:146. Tosfot 64b asks what is the difference between buying a barrel of wine which is problematic for interest and pesika? Tosfot explains that in pesika the seller takes all responsibility if it goes down or spoils. Since it wan’t specified which fruit he'd provide it doesn’t look like ribbit, while for a barrel of wine it looks like ribbit since the seller specifies which one.</ref> However, when the seller says he is buying specifically the wine that the seller owns then there's a greater concern of interest because if it spoils and yet the seller delivers good wine it seems that the buyer is benefiting because of his advanced payment. Nonetheless, it is permitted until the time when it is normal for wine to spoil if it was spoiled before it was sold.<ref>Chelkat Binyamin 173:146</ref> | ||
# When the buyer specifies a specific barrel at any time it is problematic and is only permitted if the buyer accepts the fact that if the price increases he will receive less commodity than originally specified.<ref>Gemara Bava Metsia 64a, Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 173:13, Chelkat Binyamin 173:146</ref> It is forbidden for the seller to accept the responsibility for the change in price.<ref>Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 173:13, Shach 173:24, Taz 173:17. Netivot Moshe on Taz 173:17 explains that essentially the Shach and Taz forbid the buyer to accept responsibility for the change in price and say that they're in disagreement with the Drisha who allowed this. However, the Netivot Moshe argues that the Drisha only allowed the buyer to accept responsibility for the change in price if the seller accepts another responsibility such as if it spoils. Chavot Daat 173:18 holds it is forbidden even in such a case.</ref> | # When the buyer specifies a specific barrel at any time it is problematic and is only permitted if the buyer accepts the fact that if the price increases he will receive less commodity than originally specified.<ref>Gemara Bava Metsia 64a, Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 173:13, Chelkat Binyamin 173:146</ref> It is forbidden for the seller to accept the responsibility for the change in price.<ref>Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 173:13, Shach 173:24, Taz 173:17. Netivot Moshe on Taz 173:17 explains that essentially the Shach and Taz forbid the buyer to accept responsibility for the change in price and say that they're in disagreement with the Drisha who allowed this. However, the Netivot Moshe argues that the Drisha only allowed the buyer to accept responsibility for the change in price if the seller accepts another responsibility such as if it spoils. Chavot Daat 173:18 holds it is forbidden even in such a case.</ref> | ||
===Yatza Hashaar=== | |||
#Some say that if the item is readily available in stores, such as fruit or vegetables that are in season, silverware, kitchen ware etc, it is considered Yatza Hashaar even though the price fluctuates.<ref>Shevet Halevi 3:109 holds that the dollar in Israel is considered like peirot but still is permitted to be borrowed because it is like Yatza Hashaar since it is accessible anywhere. In his opinion anything which is accessible anywhere is considered Yatza Hashaar even if the price fluctuates. Torat Ribbit 10:4 applies the Shevet Halevi who was discussing seah bseah to the laws of poskin al hapeirot.</ref> This opinion is contested.<ref> Torat Ribbit 19:5 quotes many poskim who argue with the Shevet Halevi including the Brit Yehuda ch. 18 fnt. 15, 20:13, Kitzur Dinei Ribbit of Rav Shternbuch 3:2, 4:6, and Klala Dribita Intro n. 5.</ref> | |||
==Return Policies== | ==Return Policies== | ||
# If a seller has a regular return policy in which the buyer can use the item<ref>Even though Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 174:1 which is the basis for this law is discussing real estate, it applies equally to movable items. This is pointed out by Laws of Interest p. 40 and Malveh Hashem 2:10:16</ref> and return it within a certain amount of time<ref>Pitchei Teshuva 174:2 cites Bet Efraim YD 42 who contemplated the question of whether a sale that was on condition of return for a certain period of time if it would mature into a full sale after that time expired. He concludes that it isn't a complete sale either way.</ref> or forever that is considered interest. Since the buyer has paid already and in the event that he returns it the sale is voided then we view the purchase money as a loan. Once the buyer has already used the item once and benefited from it if the seller returns him all his money the buyer is receiving interest upon his loan. This can be solved with one of two ways:<ref>Laws of Interest p. 40</ref> | # If a seller has a regular return policy in which the buyer can use the item<ref>Even though Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 174:1 which is the basis for this law is discussing real estate, it applies equally to movable items. This is pointed out by Laws of Interest p. 40 and Malveh Hashem 2:10:16</ref> and return it within a certain amount of time<ref>Pitchei Teshuva 174:2 cites Bet Efraim YD 42 who contemplated the question of whether a sale that was on condition of return for a certain period of time if it would mature into a full sale after that time expired. He concludes that it isn't a complete sale either way.</ref> or forever that is considered interest. Since the buyer has paid already and in the event that he returns it the sale is voided then we view the purchase money as a loan. Once the buyer has already used the item once and benefited from it if the seller returns him all his money the buyer is receiving interest upon his loan. This can be solved with one of two ways:<ref>Laws of Interest p. 40</ref> | ||
