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Games on Shabbat: Difference between revisions
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→Playing with a Ball
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* Mishna Brurah 308:156 argues that it is muktzeh since playing isn’t a reason to make something non-muktzeh.</ref>, while Ashkenazic poskim hold it’s Kli Sh’Melachto LeHeter <ref> | * Mishna Brurah 308:156 argues that it is muktzeh since playing isn’t a reason to make something non-muktzeh.</ref>, while Ashkenazic poskim hold it’s Kli Sh’Melachto LeHeter <ref> | ||
* Shevut Yitzchak (pg 89) quotes Rav Elyashiv (See also Sefer Orchos Shabbos 19:76 and Dirshu Mishna Brura 308:161 who quote Rav Elyashiv and others who rule leniently even for those who follow the Shulchan Aruch), as saying that even Shulchan Aruch would agree that the modern play-ball is non-[[Muktzeh]]. Even though Yalkut Yosef (Kitzur S”A 308:84; authored by Rav Yitzchak Yosef) writes one should follow Shulchan Aruch 308:45 that considers all balls to be [[Muktzeh]], Chazon Ovadia (Shabbat v. 3, p. 99; authored by Rav Ovadia Yosef) rules that nowadays since the balls are made to this purpose they aren't [[Muktzeh]]. However, the Mishna Brurah 308:157 implies that the mere fact that one plays with an item as a ball does not give it the status of a kli, which would seem to imply that even if it were manufactured to be a ball it would be prohibited according to the Shulchan Aruch. Rabbi Hershel Schachter (Gemara Shabbos Shiur 87) explained in shiur that chazal patterned the prohibition of tiltul keilim after the biblical guidelines in hilchos tumah. Consequently, the Shulchan Aruch felt that since a ball is not considered a kli in regards to hilchos tumah it cannot be considered a kli and is therefore muktzah on Shabbos.<br/> | * Shevut Yitzchak (pg 89) quotes Rav Elyashiv (See also Sefer Orchos Shabbos 19:76 and Dirshu Mishna Brura 308:161 who quote Rav Elyashiv and others who rule leniently even for those who follow the Shulchan Aruch), as saying that even Shulchan Aruch would agree that the modern play-ball is non-[[Muktzeh]]. Even though Yalkut Yosef (Kitzur S”A 308:84; authored by Rav Yitzchak Yosef) writes one should follow Shulchan Aruch 308:45 that considers all balls to be [[Muktzeh]], Chazon Ovadia (Shabbat v. 3, p. 99; authored by Rav Ovadia Yosef) rules that nowadays since the balls are made to this purpose they aren't [[Muktzeh]]. However, the Mishna Brurah 308:157 implies that the mere fact that one plays with an item as a ball does not give it the status of a kli, which would seem to imply that even if it were manufactured to be a ball it would be prohibited according to the Shulchan Aruch. Rabbi Hershel Schachter (Gemara Shabbos Shiur 87) explained in shiur that chazal patterned the prohibition of tiltul keilim after the biblical guidelines in hilchos tumah. Consequently, the Shulchan Aruch felt that since a ball is not considered a kli in regards to hilchos tumah it cannot be considered a kli and is therefore muktzah on Shabbos.<br/> | ||
Sh”t Or Letzion 2:26:8 writes that a ball is considered [[Muktzah]] for boys and girls above Bar and Bat mitzvah. Other games are generally not [[muktzah]] but should preferably be treated as [[muktzah]] and not moved. | [http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=19979&pgnum=235 Sh”t Or Letzion 2:26:8] writes that a ball is considered [[Muktzah]] for boys and girls above Bar and Bat mitzvah. Other games are generally not [[muktzah]] but should preferably be treated as [[muktzah]] and not moved. | ||
* For Ashkenazim the Rama 308:45 certainly considers balls to be non-[[Muktzeh]]. Rav Moshe Feinstein quoted by Sefer Tiltulei [[Shabbat]] (pg 22 note 16), Rav Elyashiv in Shalmei Yehuda (pg 91), and Sh"t [[Shevet Halevi]] 9:78 agree.</ref> | * For Ashkenazim the Rama 308:45 certainly considers balls to be non-[[Muktzeh]]. Rav Moshe Feinstein quoted by Sefer Tiltulei [[Shabbat]] (pg 22 note 16), Rav Elyashiv in Shalmei Yehuda (pg 91), and Sh"t [[Shevet Halevi]] 9:78 agree.</ref> | ||
# For Sephardim some hold that all games are muktzeh,<ref>Rav Meir Mazuz in Mekor Neeman 414 writes that games and balls are all muktzeh since the fact that you play with them doesn't make them into a kli. For children unless they will listen it is better not to tell them since they won't listen.</ref> while others disagree.<ref>[http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=19979&pgnum=235 Or Letzion 2:26:8], Chazon Ovadia (Shabbat v. 3, p. 99). Or Letzion writes that balls are muktzeh since they don't have a use and playing isn't a use. Accordingly, perhaps games are also muktzeh. Maybe they aren't since they are clean enough to cover a pot with toys aren't muktzeh. Yet, according to those who say that balls are muktzeh because ball playing is forbidden but it isn't clear that applies to all toys.</ref> | |||
# Children may play ball games on paved (asphalt or concrete) ground or on a ping-pong table, both indoors or outside, as long as there’s an appropriate Eruv. <Ref>Shemirat [[Shabbat]] KeHilchata 16:6. Children in Halacha (Rabbi Simcha Bunim Cohen, pg 137) adds that any game which the ball rolls on the ground may not be played except on pavement; however, other ball games can be played even on grass. Children in Halacha (Rabbi Simcha Bunim, pg 140) says that it’s permissible to play ping-pong. </ref> | # Children may play ball games on paved (asphalt or concrete) ground or on a ping-pong table, both indoors or outside, as long as there’s an appropriate Eruv. <Ref>Shemirat [[Shabbat]] KeHilchata 16:6. Children in Halacha (Rabbi Simcha Bunim Cohen, pg 137) adds that any game which the ball rolls on the ground may not be played except on pavement; however, other ball games can be played even on grass. Children in Halacha (Rabbi Simcha Bunim, pg 140) says that it’s permissible to play ping-pong. </ref> | ||
# It’s forbidden to get a ball out of a tree whether by hand or using a stick. <Ref>Shemirat [[Shabbat]] KeHilchata 16:7, Mishna Brurah 336:3, Children in Halacha (Rabbi Simcha Bunim Cohen, pg 137) </ref> | # It’s forbidden to get a ball out of a tree whether by hand or using a stick. <Ref>Shemirat [[Shabbat]] KeHilchata 16:7, Mishna Brurah 336:3, Children in Halacha (Rabbi Simcha Bunim Cohen, pg 137) </ref> | ||
