Eating in the Sukkah: Difference between revisions
From Halachipedia
→Cookies and Cakes
| Line 59: | Line 59: | ||
===Cookies and Cakes=== | ===Cookies and Cakes=== | ||
#If one ate more than a [[Measurements#KeBaytzah|KeBaytzah]] of [[Pas Haba Bikisnin]] (cookies and cakes) one must eat it in the [[Sukkah]] and the Ashkenazic minhag is to make a bracha of LeShev BaSukkah. If one eating it as a snack and not a meal then it is preferable to establish one's residence in the [[Sukkah]] for a brief time before or after eating and have in mind when making the bracha that it should cover the eating and the sitting in the [[Sukkah]].<ref>Mishna Brurah 639:16, [http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=20231&pgnum=604 Maamar Mordechai 639:3], [http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=46442&pgnum=245 Natai Gavriel 49:1-3]. Both the Maamar Mordechai and Nitai Gavriel clarify that there's no distinction between Pat Haba Bkisnin and other cooked mezonot dishes. | #If one ate more than a [[Measurements#KeBaytzah|KeBaytzah]] of [[Pas Haba Bikisnin]] (cookies and cakes) one must eat it in the [[Sukkah]] and the Ashkenazic minhag is to make a bracha of LeShev BaSukkah. If one eating it as a snack and not a meal then it is preferable to establish one's residence in the [[Sukkah]] for a brief time before or after eating and have in mind when making the bracha that it should cover the eating and the sitting in the [[Sukkah]].<ref>Mishna Brurah 639:16, [http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=20231&pgnum=604 Maamar Mordechai 639:3], [http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=46442&pgnum=245 Natai Gavriel 49:1-3]. Both the Maamar Mordechai and Nitai Gavriel clarify that there's no distinction between Pat Haba Bkisnin and other cooked mezonot dishes. Divrei Dovid 1:40 agrees and writes that if someone has a meal of noodles they must eat it in the sukkah. | ||
*The Gemara Yoma 79b establishes that there's no obligation to eat fruit in the Sukkah. However, there is one suggestion in the gemara that fruit would require a Sukkah and the gemara isn't completely conclusive. The gemara does indicate that targima would require a Sukkah. Rosh Sukkah 2:13 and Rambam Sukkah 6:6 rule that fruit doesn't need a Sukkah, but the Rosh quotes the Maharam who was strict to eat fruit in the Sukkah. The Rosh clarifies that even the Maharam was only strict if he established the fruit as a meal and not a snack. What is targima? Tosfot 79b s.v. mini cites Rashi as explaining targima to mean fruit and rejecting that explanation. Tosfot Yeshanim 79b s.v. mini based on Tosefta Brachot 4:4 explains targima to be cooked mezonot dishes. Tosfot Harosh 79b s.v. mah and Rosh Sukkah 2:13 agrees. However, Rosh also cites Rabbenu Peretz who explains that meat and cheese are considered targima. | *The Gemara Yoma 79b establishes that there's no obligation to eat fruit in the Sukkah. However, there is one suggestion in the gemara that fruit would require a Sukkah and the gemara isn't completely conclusive. The gemara does indicate that targima would require a Sukkah. Rosh Sukkah 2:13 and Rambam Sukkah 6:6 rule that fruit doesn't need a Sukkah, but the Rosh quotes the Maharam who was strict to eat fruit in the Sukkah. The Rosh clarifies that even the Maharam was only strict if he established the fruit as a meal and not a snack. What is targima? Tosfot 79b s.v. mini cites Rashi as explaining targima to mean fruit and rejecting that explanation. Tosfot Yeshanim 79b s.v. mini based on Tosefta Brachot 4:4 explains targima to be cooked mezonot dishes. Tosfot Harosh 79b s.v. mah and Rosh Sukkah 2:13 agrees. However, Rosh also cites Rabbenu Peretz who explains that meat and cheese are considered targima. | ||
*Based on Tosfot and Rosh, Tur and Shulchan Aruch 639:2 conclude that for cooked mezonot dishes require a Sukkah if one establishes them as a meal. What is a keviyut seudah? The Maamar Mordechai 639:3 learns from the Magen Avraham 639:6 that keviyut seudah depends on a person's intention to have a meal as opposed to have a snack and not on any objective amount. Aruch Hashulchan 639:9 and Biur Halacha 639:2 s.v. im agree. The Magen Avraham 639:6 disagrees with the Rosh that keviyut seudah isn't whatever a person has for a meal but anything more than a Kbeytzah. The Mishna Brurah 639:15 is concerned for the Rosh but doesn't require a bracha of leshev. | *Based on Tosfot and Rosh, Tur and Shulchan Aruch O.C. 639:2 conclude that for cooked mezonot dishes require a Sukkah if one establishes them as a meal. What is a keviyut seudah? The Maamar Mordechai 639:3 learns from the Magen Avraham 639:6 that keviyut seudah depends on a person's intention to have a meal as opposed to have a snack and not on any objective amount. Aruch Hashulchan 639:9 and Biur Halacha 639:2 s.v. im agree. The Magen Avraham 639:6 disagrees with the Rosh that keviyut seudah isn't whatever a person has for a meal but anything more than a Kbeytzah. The Mishna Brurah 639:15 is concerned for the Rosh but doesn't require a bracha of leshev. | ||
*Cooked Dish: Maamar Mordechai 639:3, Aruch Hashulchan 639:9, and Nitai Gavriel 49:1-3 | *Cooked Dish: Maamar Mordechai 639:3, Aruch Hashulchan 639:9, and Nitai Gavriel 49:1-3 hold that there is no distinction between a cooked dish and Pat Haba Bkisnin. | ||
*Ginat Veradim 4:6 writes that everyone would agree that more than a Kbeytzah of Pat Haba Bkisnin requires a Sukkah with a bracha. However, Chida (Machzik Bracha 639:5) points out that the Ginat Veradim has no proof and instead concludes that only for more than a Kbeytzah of bread should one recite a leshev bsukkah since there isn't a definite obligation to have Pat Haba Bkisnin in a Sukkah. | *Ginat Veradim 4:6 writes that everyone would agree that more than a Kbeytzah of Pat Haba Bkisnin requires a Sukkah with a bracha. However, Chida (Machzik Bracha 639:5) points out that the Ginat Veradim has no proof and instead concludes that only for more than a Kbeytzah of bread should one recite a leshev bsukkah since there isn't a definite obligation to have Pat Haba Bkisnin in a Sukkah. | ||
*Mishna Brurah 639:16 concludes that if one has intention to have a meal with mezonot, there is no distinction between Pat Haba Bekisnin and a cooked dish mezonot, both require a Sukkah with a bracha of Leshev. However, if one doesn't have intention to have a meal with mezonot, according to the Rosh there's no obligation to have it in a Sukkah and according to the Magen Avraham there is. Although the halacha doesn't follow the Magen Avraham, the minhag is to follow the Magen Avraham to recite a leshev for more than a Kbeytzah of Pat Haba Bkisnin. | *Mishna Brurah 639:16 concludes that if one has intention to have a meal with mezonot, there is no distinction between Pat Haba Bekisnin and a cooked dish mezonot, both require a Sukkah with a bracha of Leshev. However, if one doesn't have intention to have a meal with mezonot, according to the Rosh there's no obligation to have it in a Sukkah and according to the Magen Avraham there is. Although the halacha doesn't follow the Magen Avraham, the minhag is to follow the Magen Avraham to recite a leshev for more than a Kbeytzah of Pat Haba Bkisnin. | ||
| Line 69: | Line 69: | ||
*However, Nitai Gavriel Sukkot 49:3 argues that if one eats more than a Kbeytzah of any mezonot food the Ashkenazic minhag is to recite a Leshev Bsukkah.</ref> | *However, Nitai Gavriel Sukkot 49:3 argues that if one eats more than a Kbeytzah of any mezonot food the Ashkenazic minhag is to recite a Leshev Bsukkah.</ref> | ||
#If one ate more than a [[Measurements#KeBaytzah|KeBaytzah]] of a cooked dish made out of the five grains (such as noodles) one must eat in the Sukkah. If one establishes it as a meal one should recite a Leshev Basukkah. If one is just eating it as a snack, according to Ashkenazim, there is a dispute if one should recite a Leshev Basukkah.<ref>See previous footnote</ref> | #If one ate more than a [[Measurements#KeBaytzah|KeBaytzah]] of a cooked dish made out of the five grains (such as noodles) one must eat in the Sukkah. If one establishes it as a meal one should recite a Leshev Basukkah. If one is just eating it as a snack, according to Ashkenazim, there is a dispute if one should recite a Leshev Basukkah.<ref>See previous footnote</ref> | ||
#Sephardim hold that even though one must eat it in a [[Sukkah]] (if one eats more than a [[Measurements#KeBaytzah|KeBaytzah]]), one doesn't make the bracha of LeShev BaSukkah unless one ate 162 grams of a [[Pat Haba Bkisnin]] food, and it's preferable to eat 216 grams in order to make the bracha according to all opinions. For cooked dish mezonot foods there is no bracha of leshev basukkah.<ref>Chazon Ovadyah ([[Sukkot]] pg 132-6), Yalkut Yosef (Moadim pg 142-3) </ref> | #Sephardim hold that even though one must eat it in a [[Sukkah]] (if one eats more than a [[Measurements#KeBaytzah|KeBaytzah]]), one doesn't make the bracha of LeShev BaSukkah unless one ate 162 grams of a [[Pat Haba Bkisnin]] food, and it's preferable to eat 216 grams in order to make the bracha according to all opinions. For cooked dish mezonot foods there is no bracha of leshev basukkah.<ref>Chazon Ovadyah ([[Sukkot]] pg 132-6), Yalkut Yosef (Moadim pg 142-3) </ref> If one made a meal out of the noodles one must eat it in the sukkah and recite the bracha of Leshev Bsukkah even according to Sephardim.<ref>Shulchan Aruch O.C. 639:2. Yalkut Yosef (Sukkah, 5775, p. 690) holds that we recite a bracha like the Shoel Vnishal 3:95 and 3:165 and Etz Shatul 49 unlike the Ben Ish Chai (Yedey Chaim p. 93). </ref> | ||
===If one is in the middle of a meal=== | ===If one is in the middle of a meal=== | ||
