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Eating Before Davening: Difference between revisions
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* The Rif ([[Shabbat]] 4a) rules like Rav Acha Bar Yacov that one may not have a small or big meal from before [[Mincha]] Gedolah. Rambam ([[Tefillah]] 6:5) holds like the Rif. The Rosh ([[Brachot]] 4:11, [[Shabbat]] 1:18) quotes the opinions of Tosfot and Rif and the Tur in C”M 5 writes that the Rosh agrees to the Rif, while the Bet Yosef C”M 5 questions this. The Rosh ([[Shabbat]] 1:18) writes that the Rabbenu Yonah agrees with the Rif. The Rashba ([[Shabbat]] 9b s.v. VeYeInyan Pesak Halacha) writes that his Rebbe (the Ramban) agreed with the Rif. S”A 232:2 rules like the Rif. | * The Rif ([[Shabbat]] 4a) rules like Rav Acha Bar Yacov that one may not have a small or big meal from before [[Mincha]] Gedolah. Rambam ([[Tefillah]] 6:5) holds like the Rif. The Rosh ([[Brachot]] 4:11, [[Shabbat]] 1:18) quotes the opinions of Tosfot and Rif and the Tur in C”M 5 writes that the Rosh agrees to the Rif, while the Bet Yosef C”M 5 questions this. The Rosh ([[Shabbat]] 1:18) writes that the Rabbenu Yonah agrees with the Rif. The Rashba ([[Shabbat]] 9b s.v. VeYeInyan Pesak Halacha) writes that his Rebbe (the Ramban) agreed with the Rif. S”A 232:2 rules like the Rif. | ||
* The Rama 232:2 writes that one may be more lenient than S”A to have a small meal before [[Mincha]] Gedolah and before [[Mincha]] Ketana but one should still be strict like the Ri not to have a big meal even before [[Mincha]] Gedolah and the Minhag is even more lenient to permit any meal except for a big meal before [[Mincha]] Katana (which is a combination of the leniency of the Baal HaMoar and the leniency of the Ri). [The Yalkut Yosef (vol 3 pg 635) writes that this is also the opinion of the Mordechai. However, the Mordechai in [[Shabbat]] (Siman 225) seems to hold like Rabbenu Tam.] | * The Rama 232:2 writes that one may be more lenient than S”A to have a small meal before [[Mincha]] Gedolah and before [[Mincha]] Ketana but one should still be strict like the Ri not to have a big meal even before [[Mincha]] Gedolah and the Minhag is even more lenient to permit any meal except for a big meal before [[Mincha]] Katana (which is a combination of the leniency of the Baal HaMoar and the leniency of the Ri). [The Yalkut Yosef (vol 3 pg 635) writes that this is also the opinion of the Mordechai. However, the Mordechai in [[Shabbat]] (Siman 225) seems to hold like Rabbenu Tam.] | ||
* The achronim discuss whether the leniency to permit having a small meal even before [[Mincha]] Ketana allows one to have a small meal at any time or only until the actual time of [[Mincha]] Ketana (nine and a half hour and not the beginning of the ninth hour). The | * The achronim discuss whether the leniency to permit having a small meal even before [[Mincha]] Ketana allows one to have a small meal at any time or only until the actual time of [[Mincha]] Ketana (nine and a half hour and not the beginning of the ninth hour). The Magen Avraham 232:15 is strict, however, the Mahariv is lenient. Mishna Brurah 232:26 is lenient. | ||
* The Rama 232:2 defines a big meal as a meal of wedding or [[Brit Milah]]. This is based on the Tosfot ([[Shabbat]] 9b s.v. BeTisporet) who says that a big meal like those of an engagement, wedding, or [[Brit Milah]]. The Bet Yosef 232:2 quotes the Hagahot Maimonot ([[Tefillah]] 6:7) who writes that a [[Shabbat]] or [[Yom Tov]] meal isn’t considered a big meal but only a meal where many people gather together such as a wedding or [[Brit Milah]]. The Kol Bo (Siman 11 pg 8a) agrees to the Hagahot Maimonot. The Mishna Brurah 232:24 rules that a [[Shabbat]] and [[Yom Tov]] meal isn’t considered a big meal, however, a wedding, [[Brit Milah]] or [[Pidyon HaBen]] meal (where many people gather together) is considered a big meal. | * The Rama 232:2 defines a big meal as a meal of wedding or [[Brit Milah]]. This is based on the Tosfot ([[Shabbat]] 9b s.v. BeTisporet) who says that a big meal like those of an engagement, wedding, or [[Brit Milah]]. The Bet Yosef 232:2 quotes the Hagahot Maimonot ([[Tefillah]] 6:7) who writes that a [[Shabbat]] or [[Yom Tov]] meal isn’t considered a big meal but only a meal where many people gather together such as a wedding or [[Brit Milah]]. The Kol Bo (Siman 11 pg 8a) agrees to the Hagahot Maimonot. The Mishna Brurah 232:24 rules that a [[Shabbat]] and [[Yom Tov]] meal isn’t considered a big meal, however, a wedding, [[Brit Milah]] or [[Pidyon HaBen]] meal (where many people gather together) is considered a big meal. | ||
* The Bet Yosef 232:2 quotes the Ran ([[Shabbat]] 4a s.v. Hay) who says that this prohibition which begins close to the time of [[Mincha]] starts a half hour before the time of [[Mincha]]. The Bet Yosef writes that this is also the opinion of the Rashbam (Pesachim 99b). [The Mordechai in [[Shabbat]] (Siman 225) also says a half hour.] | * The Bet Yosef 232:2 quotes the Ran ([[Shabbat]] 4a s.v. Hay) who says that this prohibition which begins close to the time of [[Mincha]] starts a half hour before the time of [[Mincha]]. The Bet Yosef writes that this is also the opinion of the Rashbam (Pesachim 99b). [The Mordechai in [[Shabbat]] (Siman 225) also says a half hour.] | ||
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==Mussaf== | ==Mussaf== | ||
<!--IF ONE WANTS TO EDIT THIS SECTION PLEASE DO SO ON THE MUSSAF PAGE ALSO--> | <!--IF ONE WANTS TO EDIT THIS SECTION PLEASE DO SO ON THE MUSSAF PAGE ALSO--> | ||
# Once the time for [[Mussaf]] (from [[Olot HaShachar]]) it’s forbidden to eat a meal (more than a [[KeBaytzah]] of bread) before praying [[Mussaf]], however, it’s permissible to have a [[KeBaytzah]] of bread or a lot of fruit. <Ref>The Gemara [[Brachot]] 28b writes that the halacha doesn’t follow Rav Huna who says that it’s forbidden to taste any food before praying [[Mussaf]]. The Tur 286:3 writes that even though we don’t hold like Rav Huna we only permit have a snack but a meal is forbidden. The Bet Yosef quotes the Raavad, Rashba, and perhaps the Rabbenu Yerucham who agree. S”A 286:3 writes that it’s forbidden to eat a meal before praying [[Mussaf]] but it’s permissible to have a snack. The | # Once the time for [[Mussaf]] (from [[Olot HaShachar]]) it’s forbidden to eat a meal (more than a [[KeBaytzah]] of bread) before praying [[Mussaf]], however, it’s permissible to have a [[KeBaytzah]] of bread or a lot of fruit. <Ref>The Gemara [[Brachot]] 28b writes that the halacha doesn’t follow Rav Huna who says that it’s forbidden to taste any food before praying [[Mussaf]]. The Tur 286:3 writes that even though we don’t hold like Rav Huna we only permit have a snack but a meal is forbidden. The Bet Yosef quotes the Raavad, Rashba, and perhaps the Rabbenu Yerucham who agree. S”A 286:3 writes that it’s forbidden to eat a meal before praying [[Mussaf]] but it’s permissible to have a snack. The Magen Avraham 286:2 writes that the snack is the same as before [[Mincha]] where S”A 232:3 writes that one may have a [[KeBaytzah]] of bread and a lot of fruit but not more. </ref> | ||
# The custom is to be lenient to permit eating even more than a Kabaytzah of baked [[Mezonot]] (cakes and cookies) before [[Mussaf]] after having made [[Kiddish]]. <Ref>Shaar HaTziyun 286:7 writes that the measure for a meal before [[Mussaf]] in regards to baked [[mezonot]] is the same as by [[Sukkah]]. Mishna Brurah 639:15-6 (regarding [[Sukkah]]) quotes some who say that if one establishes a meal out of the [[Pas HaBah Bekisnin]] certainly it requires a [[Sukkah]]. However, if one didn’t have it as a meal if one had more than a [[KeBaytzah]] then there’s a dispute whether one needs a [[Sukkah]] and if one eats less than a [[KeBaytzah]] then certainly it doesn’t require a [[Sukkah]]. Nonetheless, Halichot Shlomo ([[Tefillah]] 14:9, pg 179-80) writes that the minhag is to lenient to have even more than a Kabaytzah of baked [[mezonot]]. </ref> | # The custom is to be lenient to permit eating even more than a Kabaytzah of baked [[Mezonot]] (cakes and cookies) before [[Mussaf]] after having made [[Kiddish]]. <Ref>Shaar HaTziyun 286:7 writes that the measure for a meal before [[Mussaf]] in regards to baked [[mezonot]] is the same as by [[Sukkah]]. Mishna Brurah 639:15-6 (regarding [[Sukkah]]) quotes some who say that if one establishes a meal out of the [[Pas HaBah Bekisnin]] certainly it requires a [[Sukkah]]. However, if one didn’t have it as a meal if one had more than a [[KeBaytzah]] then there’s a dispute whether one needs a [[Sukkah]] and if one eats less than a [[KeBaytzah]] then certainly it doesn’t require a [[Sukkah]]. Nonetheless, Halichot Shlomo ([[Tefillah]] 14:9, pg 179-80) writes that the minhag is to lenient to have even more than a Kabaytzah of baked [[mezonot]]. </ref> | ||
# If one does eat before [[Mussaf]] one must first do [[Kiddish]] and have a [[Revi'it]] of wine or eat a [[Kezayit]] of baked [[mezonot]] (cakes and cookies) in order to fulfill [[Kiddish]]. <Ref> | # If one does eat before [[Mussaf]] one must first do [[Kiddish]] and have a [[Revi'it]] of wine or eat a [[Kezayit]] of baked [[mezonot]] (cakes and cookies) in order to fulfill [[Kiddish]]. <Ref>Magen Avraham 286:1, Beiur Halacha 286:3 s.v. Achilat, Mishna Brurah 286:7, Shemirat [[Shabbat]] KeHilchata 52:17</ref> | ||
==Children== | ==Children== | ||
# Although an adult may not eat before praying Shacharit, a child under bar mitzvah may do so. <ref> Children in Halacha pg. 18 </ref> | # Although an adult may not eat before praying Shacharit, a child under bar mitzvah may do so. <ref> Children in Halacha pg. 18 </ref> | ||
