Corporations and Partnerships with Respect to Ribbit: Difference between revisions
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Corporations and Partnerships with Respect to Ribbit (view source)
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#The wages are first taken from the profits and then the rest is split according to their stipulation such as splitting it evenly. If there are no profits the wages are first taken from the capital and then considering that there is now insufficient funds to return the capital it is considered a loss. Therefore, the terms and conditions for losses and the percentages that they stipulated to accept for losses apply to the amount of the wages.<ref>Shach 177:53, Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 177:28</ref> | #The wages are first taken from the profits and then the rest is split according to their stipulation such as splitting it evenly. If there are no profits the wages are first taken from the capital and then considering that there is now insufficient funds to return the capital it is considered a loss. Therefore, the terms and conditions for losses and the percentages that they stipulated to accept for losses apply to the amount of the wages.<ref>Shach 177:53, Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 177:28</ref> | ||
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# As long as they stipulate at the beginning of the arrangement it is permitted to give the agent any percent of profits that is greater than the percent of losses he assumes. That difference in percentages is his wages as long as he agrees.<ref>Rambam Sheluchin 6:4, Chelkat Binyamin 177:51. See Shulchan Aruch 177:3 and Shach 177:9 who also seem to agree. Rambam Sheluchin 6:4 quotes his teachers who thought that this leniency to stipulate that the worker receive a portion of the profits that is greater than the percent of losses he accepted is only effective as long as the agent has another investment that he is also dealing with for himself. Rambam himself disagrees. Chelkat Binyamin 177:3 s.v. bameh clarifies that the Gra holds that the Rif and Rosh are strict about this like the teachers of the Rambam. Nonetheless, the halacha is like the Rambam.</ref> | # As long as they stipulate at the beginning of the arrangement it is permitted to give the agent any percent of profits that is greater than the percent of losses he assumes. That difference in percentages is his wages as long as he agrees.<ref>Rambam Sheluchin 6:4, Chelkat Binyamin 177:51. See Shulchan Aruch 177:3 and Shach 177:9 who also seem to agree. Rambam Sheluchin 6:4 quotes his teachers who thought that this leniency to stipulate that the worker receive a portion of the profits that is greater than the percent of losses he accepted is only effective as long as the agent has another investment that he is also dealing with for himself. Rambam himself disagrees. Chelkat Binyamin 177:3 s.v. bameh clarifies that the Gra holds that the Rif and Rosh are strict about this like the teachers of the Rambam. Nonetheless, the halacha is like the Rambam. | ||
* Rambam Sheluchin VShutfin 6:2 only allows giving a larger portion of the profits if the investor has another job. However, in 6:4 he allows it even if he doesn’t have another job. The Bet Yosef YD 177:2 explains that 6:2 is discussing where they didn’t stipulate the price in advance, whereas 6:4 is discussing where they did stipulate in advance. Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 177:2 rules like the Rambam. Taz 177:5 disagrees with this approach and forbids giving an extra portion if they didn’t stipulate in advance. Shach 177:9 writes that majority of poskim disagree with the Rambam and would permit giving a larger portion of profits even if they didn’t stipulate in advance.</ref> | |||
# If one stipulates that the agent only needs to give a certain amount of profits to the investor and all other profits are waived and given to the agent this can be considered wages for the agent.<ref>Shach 177:9, Chelka Binyamin (Kuntres Heter Iska n. 8) based on Rambam Sheluchin Vshutfin 6:4. See also Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 177:3.</ref> However, it must be stipulated that these are wages for his work and not simply that the investor waives his rights to them.<ref>Chelkat Binyamin 177:54 citing Chavot Daat</ref> | # If one stipulates that the agent only needs to give a certain amount of profits to the investor and all other profits are waived and given to the agent this can be considered wages for the agent.<ref>Shach 177:9, Chelka Binyamin (Kuntres Heter Iska n. 8) based on Rambam Sheluchin Vshutfin 6:4. See also Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 177:3.</ref> However, it must be stipulated that these are wages for his work and not simply that the investor waives his rights to them.<ref>Chelkat Binyamin 177:54 citing Chavot Daat</ref> | ||
# If they stipulate that the agent can keep the greater percent of gains than he accepts of the losses and it turns out that there are no gains then he doesn't receive any wage. It isn't considered interest since his wage was the opportunity he had to make money had he made gains.<ref>Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 177:28</ref> | # If they stipulate that the agent can keep the greater percent of gains than he accepts of the losses and it turns out that there are no gains then he doesn't receive any wage. It isn't considered interest since his wage was the opportunity he had to make money had he made gains.<ref>Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 177:28</ref> | ||
