Common Everyday Cases of Interest: Difference between revisions
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Common Everyday Cases of Interest (view source)
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==Family Members== | ==Family Members== | ||
# It is forbidden to charge interest even between a parent and child even if they aren’t Bar/Bat mitzvah even though it is understood to be a gift.<ref>The Gemara Bava Metsia 75a concludes that it is forbidden to charge your children interest because it is teaching them a bad lesson. That is also the opinion of Rambam Malveh Vloveh 4:8 and Shulchan Aruch 160:8. Why in fact isn’t it | # It is forbidden to charge interest even between a parent and child even if they aren’t Bar/Bat mitzvah even though it is understood to be a gift.<ref>The Gemara Bava Metsia 75a concludes that it is forbidden to charge your children interest because it is teaching them a bad lesson. That is also the opinion of Rambam Malveh Vloveh 4:8 and Shulchan Aruch 160:8. Why in fact isn’t it biblically forbidden to charge your children interest irrelevant of the fact that it is teaching a bad lesson? Chelkat Binyamin cites three approaches as to why it is technically permitted. 1) It is certain that in the end you don’t collect it (Prisha 160:13). 2) We’re only about money that the father gave the child and is now taking it back as interest (Ritva 75a, Knesset Hagedola, Lechem Mishna 4:8). 3) It is understood that the person means to give a gift to his children as a pure gift that he would have done so even if they didn’t lend money (Taz 160:4).</ref> This applies both to a parent borrowing from a child and a child from a parent.<ref>Taz 160:4 based on Rambam</ref> | ||
==Buying an Item for Someone Else== | ==Buying an Item for Someone Else== | ||
# If someone asks his friend to go to a place where it is cheaper to buy that item and he gives him the money in advance, it is only permissible if the giver has responsibility for the money until the sale or that the friend has no responsibility for the item on the way back. For example, if an Israeli asks his friend to buy something for him for cheaper in America and pays him in advance they need to arrange that the friend not be responsible for the money until the sale or not be responsible for the item after the purchase.<reF>Torat Ribbit 9:41. He explains that by giving the money in advance and having the buyer return him the item for that price back in the more expensive place is interest. He is giving him money and getting in return an item that is worth more than the money spent in the place where the buyer lives. If the buyer takes responsibility for the money until the sale, it isn't a loan at all but rather an agency of the friend. Alternatively, if the buyer takes responsibility for the item on the way back it is a loan but the friend isn't doing him a favor in returning the item and taking responsibility for it.</ref> | # If someone asks his friend to go to a place where it is cheaper to buy that item and he gives him the money in advance, it is only permissible if the giver has responsibility for the money until the sale or that the friend has no responsibility for the item on the way back. For example, if an Israeli asks his friend to buy something for him for cheaper in America and pays him in advance they need to arrange that the friend not be responsible for the money until the sale or not be responsible for the item after the purchase.<reF>Torat Ribbit 9:41. He explains that by giving the money in advance and having the buyer return him the item for that price back in the more expensive place is interest. He is giving him money and getting in return an item that is worth more than the money spent in the place where the buyer lives. If the buyer takes responsibility for the money until the sale, it isn't a loan at all but rather an agency of the friend. Alternatively, if the buyer takes responsibility for the item on the way back it is a loan but the friend isn't doing him a favor in returning the item and taking responsibility for it.</ref> | ||
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# In renting a catering hall or wedding hall only it is permitted to pay a discounted price for early payment since it is a rental of real estate.<ref>Torat Ribbit 10:79</ref> | # In renting a catering hall or wedding hall only it is permitted to pay a discounted price for early payment since it is a rental of real estate.<ref>Torat Ribbit 10:79</ref> | ||
==Borrowing Someone's Credit Card== | |||
[[Image:Borrowing cc.jpg|250px|right]] | |||
# It is permitted for someone to borrow another Jew's credit card to pay for a purchase and repay them the amount spent. Even if the purchaser receives points from the credit card company, that isn't considered interest since it doesn't come from the borrower. Additionally, the borrower may not the purchaser for any interest fees that the purchaser may incur if he pays late.<ref>[http://www.torah.org/advanced/weekly-halacha/5762/behar.html Rabbi Doniel Neustadt on torah.org], [https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/4387029/jewish/Can-I-Lend-Out-My-Credit-Card-to-Earn-Points.htm chabad.org], and [http://www.dinonline.org/2014/01/17/receiving-points-from-credit-card-loan/ dinonline.org].</ref> If the borrowing is done in a way that it is assumed that if the borrower won't pay on time he will have to pay the interest fees, such as is common with large amounts, it would be forbidden to lend your credit card.<ref>Chelkat Binyamin 170:17 describes the issue of borrowing credit cards at length. When someone borrows a credit card and uses it, he is considered as though he borrowed from the credit card company and the credit card holder is a guarantor to pay the debt to the company. Indeed it can be even more serious if it is viewed as though the credit card holder borrowed from the credit card company since he is indebted to them and separately he lent that money to his friend who is using his credit card. Either way if the agreement was that the borrower of the credit card would pay the credit card holder interest if he didn't pay on time that is a forbidden arrangement even if they pay on time and never engage in interest. However, if they arranged that the borrower wouldn't have to pay the interest even in the event that he didn't pay on time then it is permitted. For small purchases it can be assumed that the arrangement was that the borrower would only pay for the capital and not interest if he didn't pay on time. | |||
* The reason that the points are permitted is because they are considered a gift from a third party and not the Jewish lender to the Jewish borrower (see Shulchan Aruch 160:13 and Shach 160:20).</ref> | |||
# It is problematic to borrow someone else's credit card if there are two prices for a certain product, a cheaper price for cash and more expensive for credit. Since there are two prices we can view the cash price as the real price and the credit card price as the convenience price. Once the borrower of the credit card uses the card to buy a product that is worth less than the credit card price and repays the credit card price he is giving interest to the credit card holder.<ref>Chelkat Binymain Biurim 170:1 s.v. ela p. 392</ref> | |||
==Taking a Loan from an Israeli Bank== | ==Taking a Loan from an Israeli Bank== | ||
# It is permitted to take a loan from an Israeli bank account since there is a heter iska klali. It is preferable to write on the contract that it works with a heter iska.<ref>Yalkut Yosef Sova Semachot v. 1 p. 517 writes that it is permitted to take an interest loan from the Israeli banks. Here are his reasons: | # It is permitted to take a loan from an Israeli bank account since there is a heter iska klali. It is preferable to write on the contract that it works with a heter iska.<ref>Yalkut Yosef Sova Semachot v. 1 p. 517 writes that it is permitted to take an interest loan from the Israeli banks. Here are his reasons: | ||
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* the corporation of the bank has a limited liability for individual owners and as such there's no loan between two people but between a corporation and an individual. Rashba responsa 1:669 entertained the idea that there's no ribbit with money designated for charity that doesn't belong to any individual. Maharit 45, Har Tzvi YD 126, Tzafnat Pane'ach 184, Bet Avi 3:129:6, Maharia Halevi 2:54, and Cheshev Haefod 53 are lenient. are also lenient. See Minchat Shlomo 1:28, Minchat Yitzchak 3:1:2-3, Chelkat Yakov 3:160, and Chayei Halevi 2:54. Igrot Moshe 2:62 writes that there's no ribbit for a corporation to pay interest like in a savings bank but there is when discussing an individual paying a corporation. | * the corporation of the bank has a limited liability for individual owners and as such there's no loan between two people but between a corporation and an individual. Rashba responsa 1:669 entertained the idea that there's no ribbit with money designated for charity that doesn't belong to any individual. Maharit 45, Har Tzvi YD 126, Tzafnat Pane'ach 184, Bet Avi 3:129:6, Maharia Halevi 2:54, and Cheshev Haefod 53 are lenient. are also lenient. See Minchat Shlomo 1:28, Minchat Yitzchak 3:1:2-3, Chelkat Yakov 3:160, and Chayei Halevi 2:54. Igrot Moshe 2:62 writes that there's no ribbit for a corporation to pay interest like in a savings bank but there is when discussing an individual paying a corporation. | ||
* According to Rashi (cited by Rama 160:16) that there’s no prohibition of ribbit when done through a shaliach perhaps that can permit using a bank loan since the teller is merely an agent of the bank.</ref> | * According to Rashi (cited by Rama 160:16) that there’s no prohibition of ribbit when done through a shaliach perhaps that can permit using a bank loan since the teller is merely an agent of the bank.</ref> | ||
==Car Loan== | ==Car Loan== | ||
# Getting a loan for purchasing a car may not be taken with interest if the loan, provided by the bank or dealership, is done with another Jew. TO avoid any issue, one can either take the auto loan from a non-Jewish bank<ref>[https://dinonline.org/2020/03/08/ribbis-on-auto-loans/ dinonline.org (3/8/2020)]</ref> or with the Jewish lending group, appending to the loan document that it is done in accordance with the [[heter iska]] of a standard Israeli bank.<ref>[https://www.toraland.org.il/%D7%A9%D7%90%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%95%D7%AA%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%91%D7%95%D7%AA/%D7%9B%D7%9C%D7%9B%D7%9C%D7%94-%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%98/%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%98-%D7%94%D7%AA%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%94/%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%91%D7%99%D7%AA-%D7%91%D7%A7%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%99%D7%AA-%D7%A8%D7%9B%D7%91-%D7%91%D7%AA%D7%A9%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%9D/ toraland.org.il]</ref> | # Getting a loan for purchasing a car may not be taken with interest if the loan, provided by the bank or dealership, is done with another Jew. TO avoid any issue, one can either take the auto loan from a non-Jewish bank<ref>[https://dinonline.org/2020/03/08/ribbis-on-auto-loans/ dinonline.org (3/8/2020)]</ref> or with the Jewish lending group, appending to the loan document that it is done in accordance with the [[heter iska]] of a standard Israeli bank.<ref>[https://www.toraland.org.il/%D7%A9%D7%90%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%95%D7%AA%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%91%D7%95%D7%AA/%D7%9B%D7%9C%D7%9B%D7%9C%D7%94-%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%98/%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%98-%D7%94%D7%AA%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%94/%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%91%D7%99%D7%AA-%D7%91%D7%A7%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%99%D7%AA-%D7%A8%D7%9B%D7%91-%D7%91%D7%AA%D7%A9%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%9D/ toraland.org.il]</ref> | ||
# It is permitted to buy a car on discount by paying upfront even though it won't be available or delivered until later as long as the seller owned it at the time of the sale and the seller didn't explicitly state that the reason for the discount is because it is paid in advance.<reF>Milveh Hashem 1:9:23 based on Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 173:7.</reF> | |||
==Sources== | ==Sources== | ||
<references/> | <references/> | ||
[[Category:Ribbit]] | [[Category:Ribbit]] | ||
