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==When should Selichot be said?== | ==When should Selichot be said?== | ||
#Preferably, [[Selichot]] should be said at the end of the night before [[Olot HaShachar]].<ref>Mishna Brurah (Introduction to 581), Maamer Mordechai (Rav Mordechai Eliyahu) 34:5 write that preferably, [[Selichot]] should be said at the end of the night before [[Olot HaShachar]]. </ref> However, if one delayed one can say it after [[Olot HaShachar]]. <ref>Maamer Mordechai 34:5. </ref>However, it is permissible to say [[Selichot]] earlier in the night as long as one is sure not to start before [[Chatzot]] (halachic midnight). <ref> The Magen Avraham 565:5 quotes the Arizal as saying that one should not say [[Selichot]], particularly the 13 [[middot]] of rachamim, prior to [[Chatzot]] at night. Similarly, [http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1167&st=&pgnum=68 Rav Moshe Zachuto in Sht Ramaz 30] writes that it is important to only say selichot after chatzot. The Birkei Yosef 581:1, Yalkut Yosef Moadim page 9, Chazon Ovadia Yamim Noraim page 2 and Mishna Brurah 565:12 agree. Rav Moshe Feinstein (Igrot Moshe 2:105) writes that although prior to [[Chatzot]] is not the ideal time, there is no prohibition to say [[Selichot]] at such a time, and as a Hora’at Sha’ah, one may be lenient. His proof is Shulchan Aruch O.C. 1:2 who rules that praying at the end of the first third of the night is considered a time of mercy. However, Rav Ovadyah Yosef (Chazon Ovadyah Yamim Nora’im p. 3-6) argues that there is a prohibition based on Kabbalah. He concludes that if the congregation can’t wake up to say [[Selichot]] at night, it may say them during the day before [[Shacharit]] or [[Mincha]]. Kaf HaChaim 581:1,2, and Maamer Mordechai (Rav Mordechai Eliyahu) 34:4 hold that one should only say [[Selichot]] after [[Chatzot]] and if one had a minhag to say it earlier one should change the minhag. Chacham Ovadia Yosef in Chazon Ovadyah (Yamim Noraim, pg 2-3) as well as Yechave Daat 1:46 and his son in Yalkut Yosef Moadim page 9 agree that it forbidden to say [[Selichot]] before [[Chatzot]], which he clearly spells out is 12 halachic hours after midday which is 6 halachic hours after sunrise. Shaare [[Teshuvah]] 581:1 quotes the Birkei Yosef 588:4 that if you find yourself in a [[minyan]] saying [[Selichot]] before [[chatzot]], that you shouldn't answer to the 13 [[middot]] </ref> | #Preferably, [[Selichot]] should be said at the end of the night before [[Olot HaShachar]].<ref>Mishna Brurah (Introduction to 581), Maamer Mordechai (Rav Mordechai Eliyahu) 34:5 write that preferably, [[Selichot]] should be said at the end of the night before [[Olot HaShachar]]. </ref> However, if one delayed one can say it after [[Olot HaShachar]].<ref>Maamer Mordechai 34:5. </ref> However, it is permissible to say [[Selichot]] earlier in the night as long as one is sure not to start before [[Chatzot]] (halachic midnight).<ref> The Magen Avraham 565:5 quotes the Arizal as saying that one should not say [[Selichot]], particularly the 13 [[middot]] of rachamim, prior to [[Chatzot]] at night. Similarly, [http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1167&st=&pgnum=68 Rav Moshe Zachuto in Sht Ramaz 30] writes that it is important to only say selichot after chatzot. The Birkei Yosef 581:1, Yalkut Yosef Moadim page 9, Chazon Ovadia Yamim Noraim page 2 and Mishna Brurah 565:12 agree.</ref> | ||
##Some hold that in extenuating circumstances one can say selichot before Chatzot.<ref> Rav Moshe Feinstein (Igrot Moshe 2:105) writes that although prior to [[Chatzot]] is not the ideal time, there is no prohibition to say [[Selichot]] at such a time, and as a Hora’at Sha’ah, one may be lenient. His proof is Shulchan Aruch O.C. 1:2 who rules that praying at the end of the first third of the night is considered a time of mercy. However, Rav Ovadyah Yosef (Chazon Ovadyah Yamim Nora’im p. 3-6) argues that there is a prohibition based on Kabbalah. He concludes that if the congregation can’t wake up to say [[Selichot]] at night, it may say them during the day before [[Shacharit]] or [[Mincha]]. Kaf HaChaim 581:1,2, and Maamer Mordechai (Rav Mordechai Eliyahu) 34:4 hold that one should only say [[Selichot]] after [[Chatzot]] and if one had a minhag to say it earlier one should change the minhag. Chacham Ovadia Yosef in Chazon Ovadyah (Yamim Noraim, pg 2-3) as well as Yechave Daat 1:46 and his son in Yalkut Yosef Moadim page 9 agree that it forbidden to say [[Selichot]] before [[Chatzot]], which he clearly spells out is 12 halachic hours after midday which is 6 halachic hours after sunrise. Shaare [[Teshuvah]] 581:1 quotes the Birkei Yosef 588:4 that if you find yourself in a [[minyan]] saying [[Selichot]] before [[chatzot]], that you shouldn't answer to the 13 [[middot]] </ref> | |||
##Some say one may say [[Selichot]] according to when [[Chatzot]] is in [[Israel]], however majority of halachic authorities disagree. <ref>Chazon Ovadyah (Yamim Noraim beginning) brings two opinions without drawing a conclusion. In the English edition of Yalkut Yosef (vol 14 pg 49 in note 4), the author writes clearly in name of Rav Ovadyah that one may not rely on this leniency and each place must not say [[Selichot]] prior to [[chatzot]] in that locale. Rav Ovadyah in Chazon Ovadyah (Yamim Noraim, pg 4) writes clearly that this isn't an acceptable leniency. </ref> | ##Some say one may say [[Selichot]] according to when [[Chatzot]] is in [[Israel]], however majority of halachic authorities disagree. <ref>Chazon Ovadyah (Yamim Noraim beginning) brings two opinions without drawing a conclusion. In the English edition of Yalkut Yosef (vol 14 pg 49 in note 4), the author writes clearly in name of Rav Ovadyah that one may not rely on this leniency and each place must not say [[Selichot]] prior to [[chatzot]] in that locale. Rav Ovadyah in Chazon Ovadyah (Yamim Noraim, pg 4) writes clearly that this isn't an acceptable leniency. </ref> | ||
#Those congregations which aren't able to rise early to say [[Selichot]], should nonetheless say [[Selichot]], either in the morning before [[Shacharit]] or even in the afternoon before [[Mincha]]. <ref>Chazon Ovadyah (Yamim Noraim, pg 6-7), Yalkut Yosef Moadim page 10, Yechave Daat 1:46. In Iggerot Moshe OC 2:105, Rav Moshe permits under extenuating circumstances to recite [[selichot]] after 1/3 of the night has passed. [http://www.torah.org/advanced/weekly-halacha/5757/nitzavim.html Rav Doniel Neustadt says this shouldn't be relied upon on a consistent basis. </ref> | #Those congregations which aren't able to rise early to say [[Selichot]], should nonetheless say [[Selichot]], either in the morning before [[Shacharit]] or even in the afternoon before [[Mincha]]. <ref>Chazon Ovadyah (Yamim Noraim, pg 6-7), Yalkut Yosef Moadim page 10, Yechave Daat 1:46. In Iggerot Moshe OC 2:105, Rav Moshe permits under extenuating circumstances to recite [[selichot]] after 1/3 of the night has passed. [http://www.torah.org/advanced/weekly-halacha/5757/nitzavim.html Rav Doniel Neustadt says this shouldn't be relied upon on a consistent basis. </ref> | ||
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==Individuals who can't wake up for Selichot== | ==Individuals who can't wake up for Selichot== | ||
#A Torah scholar (Talmid Chacham) who isn't able to wake up for [[Selichot]] because he is learning in the early hours of the morning and by going to [[Selichot]] it will ruin his schedule he should try to go to [[Selichot]] during the Aseret Yamei [[Teshuva]] (Ten days of [[Repentance]]) and some days of [[Elul]]. However, if he is up passed [[Chatzot]] it's preferable to say some paragraphs of [[Selichot]] and [[Tikkun Chatzot]] (which takes precedence over [[Selichot]]). <ref>Chazon Ovadyah (Yamim Noraim, pg 8-10), Yalkut Yosef Moadim page 11, Sh"t Yabia Omer OC 2:28:8-9, Sh"t Yabia Omer YD 4:19, | #A Torah scholar (Talmid Chacham) who isn't able to wake up for [[Selichot]] because he is learning in the early hours of the morning and by going to [[Selichot]] it will ruin his schedule he should try to go to [[Selichot]] during the Aseret Yamei [[Teshuva]] (Ten days of [[Repentance]]) and some days of [[Elul]]. However, if he is up passed [[Chatzot]] it's preferable to say some paragraphs of [[Selichot]] and [[Tikkun Chatzot]] (which takes precedence over [[Selichot]]). <ref>Chazon Ovadyah (Yamim Noraim, pg 8-10), Yalkut Yosef Moadim page 11, Sh"t Yechave Daat 3:44. (see also Sh"t Yabia Omer OC 2:28:8-9, Sh"t Yabia Omer YD 4:19, for a similar discussion) Sefer [[Seder]] Hayom page 57 warns that a person shouldn't neglect to recite [[selichot]] with the argument that his time is better spent learning rather than praying. Mateh Ephraim 581:11 also stresses a similar idea. The Rama in Darkei Moshe 581:2 quotes the Haghot Ashri saying that any talmid chacham should make sure to recite [[selichot]] </ref> | ||
#Teachers who teach in the morning and getting up early for [[Selichot]] would prevent them from doing their job well should only get up for [[Selichot]] some days in [[Elul]] and during the [[Aseret Yimei Teshuva]]. The same is true for hired workers and officials (who would have their work impacted by rising early). Nonetheless, it's preferable to at least say [[Selichot]] to oneself before [[Shacharit]] or [[Mincha]]. <ref>Chazon Ovadyah (Yamim Noraim, pg 10), Yabia Omer OC 2:28:8 </ref> | # Teachers who teach in the morning and getting up early for [[Selichot]] would prevent them from doing their job well should only get up for [[Selichot]] some days in [[Elul]] and during the [[Aseret Yimei Teshuva]]. The same is true for hired workers and officials (who would have their work impacted by rising early). Nonetheless, it's preferable to at least say [[Selichot]] to oneself before [[Shacharit]] or [[Mincha]]. <ref>Chazon Ovadyah (Yamim Noraim, pg 10), Yabia Omer OC 2:28:8 </ref> | ||
#One should make an effort to say [[Selichot]] with fervor and strength and not fall asleep during [[davening]] until the very end. This is especially the case for someone wearing [[Tefillin]] for whom it is forbidden to sleep. It's better not to wake up early for [[Selichot]] if it will end up ruining the [[prayers]] and and cause one to fall asleep with [[Tefillin]]. <ref>Chazon Ovadyah (Yamim Noraim, pg 10-11), Yalkut Yosef Moadim page 12, Chida in Moreh Bietzbah 245 </ref> | #One should make an effort to say [[Selichot]] with fervor and strength and not fall asleep during [[davening]] until the very end. This is especially the case for someone wearing [[Tefillin]] for whom it is forbidden to sleep. It's better not to wake up early for [[Selichot]] if it will end up ruining the [[prayers]] and and cause one to fall asleep with [[Tefillin]]. <ref>Chazon Ovadyah (Yamim Noraim, pg 10-11), Yalkut Yosef Moadim page 12, Chida in Moreh Bietzbah 245 </ref> | ||
#If one doesn't have sufficient time to say all of [[Selichot]] because the time for [[Tefillah]] has arrived, one should skip "Im Afes Rovah Haken", "Bezichrei Al Mishkavi", "Lemitvadeh Chatatav", and "Aylecha Hashem Naasati Aynay", according to the need. <ref>Chazon Ovadyah (Yamim Noraim, p. 33)</ref> | #If one doesn't have sufficient time to say all of [[Selichot]] because the time for [[Tefillah]] has arrived, one should skip "Im Afes Rovah Haken", "Bezichrei Al Mishkavi", "Lemitvadeh Chatatav", and "Aylecha Hashem Naasati Aynay", according to the need. <ref>Chazon Ovadyah (Yamim Noraim, p. 33)</ref> | ||
