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Buying on Credit: Difference between revisions
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==Discounts== | ==Discounts== | ||
# Usually it is considered a rabbinic prohibition of taking interest to have a two tiered system in which the buyer could either pay a lower price now and receive the merchandise or can get the merchandise now and only pay later but at a higher price. <ref>Shulchan Aruch YD 173:7, The Laws of Ribbis p. 132, [https://www.yutorah.org/sidebar/lecture.cfm/900500/rabbi-hershel-schachter/dinei-ribbis/ Rav Hershel Schachter (Dinei Ribbis min 40)]</ref> | # Usually it is considered a rabbinic prohibition of taking interest to have a two tiered system in which the buyer could either pay a lower price now and receive the merchandise or can get the merchandise now and only pay later but at a higher price.<ref>Shulchan Aruch YD 173:7, The Laws of Ribbis p. 132, [https://www.yutorah.org/sidebar/lecture.cfm/900500/rabbi-hershel-schachter/dinei-ribbis/ Rav Hershel Schachter (Dinei Ribbis min 40)]</ref> | ||
# It is common in some businesses to require a deposit when a customer places a sale to ensure that the seller follows through with the sale. It is permitted for the seller to charge a lower price to the buyer who makes a deposit since the seller’s intent in requiring a deposit isn’t to charge interest but to ensure that the sale takes place. <ref>The Laws of Ribbis p. 133</ref> | # It is common in some businesses to require a deposit when a customer places a sale to ensure that the seller follows through with the sale. It is permitted for the seller to charge a lower price to the buyer who makes a deposit since the seller’s intent in requiring a deposit isn’t to charge interest but to ensure that the sale takes place.<ref>The Laws of Ribbis p. 133</ref> | ||
# It is forbidden to pay a camp an early bird special or discounted price if you pay early.<ref>[https://www.yutorah.org/sidebar/lecture.cfm/900500/rabbi-hershel-schachter/dinei-ribbis/ Rav Hershel Schachter (Dinei Ribbis approx min 40)]</ref> | # It is forbidden to pay a camp an early bird special or discounted price if you pay early.<ref>[https://www.yutorah.org/sidebar/lecture.cfm/900500/rabbi-hershel-schachter/dinei-ribbis/ Rav Hershel Schachter (Dinei Ribbis approx min 40)]</ref> | ||
# It is forbidden to pay for a sefer in advance before the printer published the sefer.<ref>[https://www.yutorah.org/sidebar/lecture.cfm/900500/rabbi-hershel-schachter/dinei-ribbis/ Rav Hershel Schachter (Dinei Ribbis approx min 40)]</ref> | # It is forbidden to pay for a sefer in advance before the printer published the sefer.<ref>[https://www.yutorah.org/sidebar/lecture.cfm/900500/rabbi-hershel-schachter/dinei-ribbis/ Rav Hershel Schachter (Dinei Ribbis approx min 40)]</ref> | ||
# Using advanced discounted payments for a yeshiva or non-profit tzedaka organization is permitted since this is only a rabbinic form of interest.<ref>[https://www.yutorah.org/sidebar/lecture.cfm/900500/rabbi-hershel-schachter/dinei-ribbis/ Rav Hershel Schachter (Dinei Ribbis approx min 40)]</ref> | # Using advanced discounted payments for a yeshiva or non-profit tzedaka organization is permitted since this is only a rabbinic form of interest.<ref>[https://www.yutorah.org/sidebar/lecture.cfm/900500/rabbi-hershel-schachter/dinei-ribbis/ Rav Hershel Schachter (Dinei Ribbis approx min 40)]</ref> | ||
==Buying on Credit== | ==Buying on Credit== | ||
#Generally it is forbidden<ref>Rambam Malveh Vloveh 8:1 clarifies that it is only rabbinically forbidden to charge more for buying on credit since it is presented as a sale not a loan. Shach 173:4 agrees. Brit Yehuda 12:2 based on Shach 173:6 writes that many poskim hold that it is considered | #Generally it is forbidden<ref>Rambam Malveh Vloveh 8:1 clarifies that it is only rabbinically forbidden to charge more for buying on credit since it is presented as a sale not a loan. Shach 173:4 agrees. Brit Yehuda 12:2 based on Shach 173:6 writes that many poskim hold that it is considered biblical interest if they specified that there is a higher price for buying on credit.</ref> to charge someone extra for buying on credit.<ref>Gemara Bava Metsia 65a, Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 173:1, Brit Yehuda 12:1, Torat Ribbit 8:1</ref> | ||
#It is forbidden to make up a contract that if the buyer pays at the end he should pay a certain amount and if he wants he can pay earlier less.<ref>Torat Ribbit 8:2</ref> | #It is forbidden to make up a contract that if the buyer pays at the end he should pay a certain amount and if he wants he can pay earlier less.<ref>Torat Ribbit 8:2</ref> | ||
# Even if the two tiered pricing is set up that the on time payment is called a discount and buying on credit as the regular price that is still forbidden.<ref>Torat Ribbit 8:3</ref> | # Even if the two tiered pricing is set up that the on time payment is called a discount and buying on credit as the regular price that is still forbidden.<ref>Torat Ribbit 8:3</ref> | ||
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## According to most poskim one can rely on the first method. According to others one can rely on the second method. Ideally a person would use both languages to be strict for both sides.<ref>Laws of Interest p. 41</ref> | ## According to most poskim one can rely on the first method. According to others one can rely on the second method. Ideally a person would use both languages to be strict for both sides.<ref>Laws of Interest p. 41</ref> | ||
# Some poskim hold that since generally the fact that the seller lets the buyer use the product is merely in order to interest him in order buying it and there's no time-value of money because of the fact that the seller had the buyer's money in the meantime it is permitted with whatever language they use. However, even according to this opinion if it is a large sale and the time-value of money does play a role and the seller is interested in using the money of the buyer between the time of the sale and the return then it is problematic.<ref>Chelkat Binyamin 174:3. He cites Chut Shani ch. 13 and Kuntres Kitzur Dinei Ribbit Hametzuyim 9:5 to support this approach.</ref> | # Some poskim hold that since generally the fact that the seller lets the buyer use the product is merely in order to interest him in order buying it and there's no time-value of money because of the fact that the seller had the buyer's money in the meantime it is permitted with whatever language they use. However, even according to this opinion if it is a large sale and the time-value of money does play a role and the seller is interested in using the money of the buyer between the time of the sale and the return then it is problematic.<ref>Chelkat Binyamin 174:3. He cites Chut Shani ch. 13 and Kuntres Kitzur Dinei Ribbit Hametzuyim 9:5 to support this approach.</ref> | ||
# If someone sells a field or any product on condition that the seller can buy it back when he wants to that isn't a sale, rather it is considered a loan.<ref>Gemara Bava Metsia 65b, Rambam Malveh Vloveh 6:5, Rashba 3:435, Tur and Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 174:1. Netivot Shalom Ribbit 174:3:2 infers from the Taz that when Shulchan Aruch | # If someone sells a field or any product on condition that the seller can buy it back when he wants to that isn't a sale, rather it is considered a loan.<ref>Gemara Bava Metsia 65b, Rambam Malveh Vloveh 6:5, Rashba 3:435, Tur and Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 174:1. Netivot Shalom Ribbit 174:3:2 infers from the Taz that when Shulchan Aruch writes it isn't a sale he means that if the buyer ends up returning the item otherwise it is considered a complete sale.</ref> Therefore, it is forbidden for the buyer to use the field or product. Doing so would be either biblical interest or rabbinic interest.<reF>Shulchan Aruch 174:1 based on Rambam Malveh Vloveh 6:5 write that it is biblical interest to eat the fruit of a field that was sold conditionally. Shach 174:1 writes that those who hold that eating the fruit of a mashkon is only rabbinic interest would say the same in this case. See however, Rambam Malveh Vloveh 6:5-7 and Even Haezel 6:4 s.v. vheneh biyarnu who seem to imply otherwise. Taz 174:1 writes that those who think that interest that is conditional upon someone's choice, ''Sad Echad Bribbit'', is rabbinic would deem this rabbinic as well.</ref> | ||
#After the original sale if the buyer decides on his own violation to let the seller buy it back, he can do so and he can even grant that right to the seller with an acquisition. That wouldn't invalidate the original sale and the buyer would be permitted to use that product.<ref>Rashba (Teshuvot Chadashot 1:85), Shulchan Aruch 174:2</ref> | #After the original sale if the buyer decides on his own violation to let the seller buy it back, he can do so and he can even grant that right to the seller with an acquisition. That wouldn't invalidate the original sale and the buyer would be permitted to use that product.<ref>Rashba (Teshuvot Chadashot 1:85), Shulchan Aruch 174:2</ref> | ||
