Bishul: Difference between revisions
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→Fully cooked food
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#Mixing fully cooked food which is on the fire is forbidden.<ref>Ritva [[Shabbat]] 18b (quoted in Tal Orot pg 39) writes that even after the food was cooked it’s still forbidden on a rabbinic level to stir the hot food. Shulchan Aruch O.C. 318:18 rules one can’t remove a spoon from a food that’s not fully cooked but if it’s fully cooked it’s permitted, which seemingly means that one can remove a spoon from a fully cooked food but not to actually mix it. Similarly, Bet Yosef 321 quotes Sh”t Rambam 68 (and the halacha is also found in [[Shabbat]] 21:13) who permits mixing a hot food that was fully cooked and removed from the fire. Bet Yosef adds that even though it’s forbidden even off the fire as long as it’s hot here it’s permitted because it’s totally cooked. Rav Ovadyah (Yalkut Yosef [[Shabbat]] vol 3 pg 187; Kol Sinai Tevet 5723) implies from these sources that actually mixing a totally cooked food while on the fire is forbidden as Mechzei KeMevashel (appears like [[cooking]]). Or Letzion 2 pg 238 writes that the Kol Bo (quoted by Bet Yosef 253) who forbids stirring a fully cooked pot on the fire is a Deoritta prohibition, while Mishna Brurah 318 argues that clearly stirring a fully cooked food is only forbidden on a rabbinic level (as is explicit in the Ritva). However, Ramach (quoted by Kesef Mishna 9:4), Mamer Mordechai 318:20, and Chazon Ish 37:15 permit actual mixing even though the pot is on the fire because the food is completely cooked. </ref> | #Mixing fully cooked food which is on the fire is forbidden.<ref>Ritva [[Shabbat]] 18b (quoted in Tal Orot pg 39) writes that even after the food was cooked it’s still forbidden on a rabbinic level to stir the hot food. Shulchan Aruch O.C. 318:18 rules one can’t remove a spoon from a food that’s not fully cooked but if it’s fully cooked it’s permitted, which seemingly means that one can remove a spoon from a fully cooked food but not to actually mix it. Similarly, Bet Yosef 321 quotes Sh”t Rambam 68 (and the halacha is also found in [[Shabbat]] 21:13) who permits mixing a hot food that was fully cooked and removed from the fire. Bet Yosef adds that even though it’s forbidden even off the fire as long as it’s hot here it’s permitted because it’s totally cooked. Rav Ovadyah (Yalkut Yosef [[Shabbat]] vol 3 pg 187; Kol Sinai Tevet 5723) implies from these sources that actually mixing a totally cooked food while on the fire is forbidden as Mechzei KeMevashel (appears like [[cooking]]). Or Letzion 2 pg 238 writes that the Kol Bo (quoted by Bet Yosef 253) who forbids stirring a fully cooked pot on the fire is a Deoritta prohibition, while Mishna Brurah 318 argues that clearly stirring a fully cooked food is only forbidden on a rabbinic level (as is explicit in the Ritva). However, Ramach (quoted by Kesef Mishna 9:4), Mamer Mordechai 318:20, and Chazon Ish 37:15 permit actual mixing even though the pot is on the fire because the food is completely cooked. </ref> | ||
#Ashkenazim are strict and do not even take a serving spoon out of a pot of fully cooked food (that’s 113 degrees) while it’s on the fire.<ref>Ran 6b (according to the version of the Bet Yosef 318:18 quoted by the Hagahot HaBach on the Rif) writes that even removing a serving spoon from the pot of hot food is forbidden because in that act one stirs the food. Rambam 3:11 also rules that putting a serving spoon is forbidden because of stirring. However, Magid Mishna 3:11 explains that that Rambam (and Ran who says this explicitly) only forbade a hot food that wasn’t totally cooked but stirring is permitted if it’s totally cooked (Bet Yosef adds that according to those who hold there’s no issue of [[cooking]] once it’s cooked to the stage of Machal Ben Derosai Dursai, here too, stirring is permitted at Machal Ben Dursai). [Interestingly, [[Maggid]] Mishna 9:4 says in name of Ramban (18b D”H VeHalo Megis) and Rashba (18b s.v. Tzemer LeYurah) that once the hot food was stirred once | #Ashkenazim are strict and do not even take a serving spoon out of a pot of fully cooked food (that’s 113 degrees) while it’s on the fire.<ref>Ran 6b (according to the version of the Bet Yosef 318:18 quoted by the Hagahot HaBach on the Rif) writes that even removing a serving spoon from the pot of hot food is forbidden because in that act one stirs the food. Rambam 3:11 also rules that putting a serving spoon is forbidden because of stirring. However, Magid Mishna 3:11 explains that that Rambam (and Ran who says this explicitly) only forbade a hot food that wasn’t totally cooked but stirring is permitted if it’s totally cooked (Bet Yosef adds that according to those who hold there’s no issue of [[cooking]] once it’s cooked to the stage of Machal Ben Derosai Dursai, here too, stirring is permitted at Machal Ben Dursai). [Interestingly, [[Maggid]] Mishna 9:4 says in name of Ramban (18b D”H VeHalo Megis) and Rashba (18b s.v. Tzemer LeYurah) that once the hot food was stirred once it is considered cooked and there’s no issue of [[cooking]] with the second stirring.] Shulchan Aruch O.C. 318:18 rules that it’s permitted to remove a spoon from a fully cooked food even when it’s on the fire. However, the Rama is strict not to remove a utensil or stir the pot whether it’s on the fire or even off the fire based on Sh”t Mahari Vayil 30. The achronim including Eliyah Raba 318:40, Chaye Adam 20:9, Levush 321:9, Pri Megadim M”Z 321:23, Sh”t Zera Emet 1:40, Tehila LeDavid 252:1, Mishna Brurah 318:117, 39 Melachos (vol 2 pg 561-2), and Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 1:32 agree that Ashkenazim should be strict like the Rama while the food is still on the fire both not to stir and not to remove a utensil (and they mention that if there’s one who wants to be stringent should be stringent in regards to stirring something off the fire). Sh”t Igrot Moshe 4:74 is strict like the Rama regarding food that’s on the fire and explains that that one may not stir food on the fire because one might assume that the food is totally cooked and it may turn out that it isn’t, which would be a violation of a Torah prohibition. Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 1:32 adds that if there’s going to be no way to remove food from the pot and return it to the fire (because of absence of a suitable cover of the fire) one may be lenient and remove food (not stir) as long as the food is surely fully cooked. </ref> However, Sephardim hold it’s permitted even if in the act one turns the food that was on top of the pot to be moved to the bottom closer to the fire.<ref>See above note. The Chida in name of the Radvaz 3:411, Taz 318:23, Sh"t Yabea Omer OC 10:55, and Yalkut Yosef ([[Shabbat]] vol 3 pg 187) rule like S”A. [Interestingly, Orchot Rabbenu Kehilat Yacov pg 149 writes that in the house of the Chazon Ish and Kehilat Yacov (who were Ashkenazic), they actually took food from a pot on the fire when the food was fully cooked, not like the Rama (however, Orchot Rabbenu explains that since they were so strict regarding Chazara, if they weren’t lenient in this regard, they wouldn’t have hot food on [[Shabbat]]). The Chazon Ish 37:15 actually rules this way. </ref> | ||
===Food not on the fire=== | ===Food not on the fire=== | ||
