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Tochen: Difference between revisions
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==Definition== | ==Definition== | ||
#The melacha is defined as the constructive reduction of a large singular entity into small parts whereby it serves a new purpose.<ref>Rambam Peirush HaMishnayot 7:2 </ref> Examples include chopping wood into small chips for a fire, shaving down a metal rod to form small strips | #The melacha is defined as the constructive reduction of a large singular entity into small parts whereby it serves a new purpose.<ref>Rambam Peirush HaMishnayot 7:2 </ref> | ||
# | ##Examples include chopping wood into small chips for a fire, shaving down a metal rod to form small strips, and dicing vegetables to cook them.<ref>Rambam hilchot shabbat 8:15 </ref> | ||
#The prohibition of Tochen ([[grinding]]) includes chopping, grating, crushing, mashing, shredding, or breaking something into small pieces. <ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:1 </ref> | ##The prohibition of Tochen ([[grinding]]) includes chopping, grating, crushing, mashing, shredding, or breaking something into small pieces.<ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:1 </ref> | ||
#Tochen also applies to non-foods. For example it's forbidden to crush a clod of dirt, shave splinters off a piece of wood, sawing wood with intent for the dust. <ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:1 in the note, Yalkut Yosef ([[Shabbat]], vol 3, pg 377) | #Tochen also applies to non-foods. For example it's forbidden to crush a clod of dirt, shave splinters off a piece of wood, sawing wood with intent for the dust.<ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:1 in the note, Yalkut Yosef ([[Shabbat]], vol 3, pg 377) </ref> | ||
==In the Mishkan== | === In the Mishkan === | ||
#Tochen (grinding) was performed in the mishkan in the process of crushing herbs to make dyes.<ref>Rashi Shabbos 73a s.v. HaOfeh. See 39 Melochos (Rabbi Ribiat vol. 2, Zoreiah footnote 7) </ref> | # Tochen (grinding) was performed in the mishkan in the process of crushing herbs to make dyes.<ref>Rashi Shabbos 73a s.v. HaOfeh. See 39 Melochos (Rabbi Ribiat vol. 2, Zoreiah footnote 7) </ref> | ||
=== Toldot === | |||
#Cutting up vegetables into small pieces in order to cook them and shaving down a metal rod are examples of toldot of Tochen.<ref>Rambam hilchot shabbat 7:5, 8:15, 21:18 </ref> | |||
== Chopping Vegetables for a Salad == | |||
# It is forbidden to cut vegetables into very small pieces.<ref>The gemara shabbat 74b cites Rav Papa as stating that one who is פרים סילקא (lit: chops up beets) into small pieces has violated the melacha of tochen. This is Rashi's girsa in the gemara there. However, according to many rishonim, it is actually not so simple that merely chopping vegetables would be a problem of tochen. | |||
*(1) The Rosh 7:5 cites from Rabbenu Chananel that the correct pshat in the gemara is one who grinds up twigs into sawdust. The Rosh asks how Rashi could think that merely chopping up vegetables would be a violation of tochen. The Korban Netanel 10 explains that the Torah wouldn't have prohibited chopping up vegetables because it's impossible to give a clear guideline as to how small is small, and because this type of chopping doesn't really have a significant effect on the vegetable (in contrast to grinding wheat into flour, which completely changes the character of the wheat into a new entity). Thus, according to the Rosh / R"C, there is never an issue of tochen with chopping vegetables. | |||
*(2) Tosfot (shabbat 74b s.v. high) is seemingly bothered by the Rosh's question on Rashi, and so even though he learns the gemara like Rashi (that the gemara is discussing chopping up beets), he limits it by stating that only beets are included in this prohibition, but not other vegetables. He doesn't explain what makes beets unique that only they would be subject to tochen if chopped up into small pieces. Minchat Chinuch (tochen 2) explains that tosfot means to distinguish between vegetables that can be eaten raw and those that need to be cooked. Beets must be cooked, and so chopping is viewed as the preparatory step towards cooking, and thus a more significant act. In contrast, when one chops up a vegetable that doesn't need to be cooked, this is viewed as just part of the eating process. | |||
*(3) This idea is explicitly stated by the Ritva 74b, that only beets and other vegetables which are not eaten raw would be subject to this prohibition of tochen. | |||
*(4) There are some who suggest that the Rambam agrees to a variation of this idea as well. He writes in a few places that one has violated tochen when they chop up vegetables into small pieces "כדי לבשלו" (lit: in order to cook them). It sounds like he thinks that only if the chopping is a preparatory step in the cooking process is it viewed as a significant act that would be defined as melacha [this is still slightly different than the Ritva; if there is a vegetable that can be eaten raw, but one chops it up in order to cook it, they would still be obligated according to this understanding of the Rambam, even though they would be patur according to the Ritva]. The Kesef Mishna (hilchot shabbat 21:18) understands the Rambam this way. However, many achronim disagree (Aruch Hashulchan 321:4; Minchat Chinuch tochen 2; Biur Hagra 321:15), and think that the Rambam merely mentioned "in order to cook them" just to describe a situation in which one would chop up vegetables into small pieces, but it is not actually a requirement that the chopping be done to prepare for cooking. | |||
*However, other rishonim agree to Rashi that there would be an issue to chop up vegetables, even if one does not intend to cook them, and even if they are edible raw. For example, Tosfot (shabbat 114b s.v. ela) states that chopping up vegetables into pieces that are "דקות מאוד" (lit: very small) violates tochen, but chopping them into big pieces is completely permitted (since this isn't considered similar at all to "grinding"). Similarly, Haga'ot Maymoniyot (hilchot shabbat ch 21 ot 70) cites from the Rashbam that crumbling up bread is not a problem of tochen because the bread has already been ground up once (when first made, the wheat was ground into flour), and so tochen can't be violated a second time. The implication here is that without this argument to be lenient, tochen would have been applicable on bread, even though it is food, edible as it is, and one doesn't intend to cook it further. | |||
*L'halacha, the Shulchan Aruch 321:12 paskens stringently that one who chops up vegetables into pieces that are "דק דק" (lit: very small) has violated the biblical melacha of tochen. As we have seen, many rishonim would disagree with this statement, but of course many would agree, and so the Shulchan Aruch follows the strict approach. However, there is a discussion whether the Rama agrees to this or not. The Rama writes that it is similarly prohibited to chop up figs or carrobs for old people. Why does he specify old people? The Magen Avraham 321:14 suggests that perhaps the Rama understands that it is only prohibited to chop it for old people since they are unable to eat the vegetables otherwise. This type of chopping is significant and thus deemed melacha. However, if someone is able to eat the vegetables even before the chopping, then chopping would be permitted. This is a major leniency. However, it is rejected by the Mishna Brurah (Biur Halacha 321:12 s.v. lifnei), who suggests that really the Rama just mentioned old people because that was the common case, but it was not meant to exclude other people. Practically then, the halacha is that one may not chop vegetables into very small pieces even for one who is able to eat them otherwise. </ref> | |||
# It is permitted to cut vegetables into pieces that are somewhat large, immediately before the meal.<ref>Shemirat Shabbat Kehilchata 6:6</ref> | |||
## What is considered somewhat large? As long as the pieces are cut larger than typically cut during the week.<ref>39 Melachos v. 2 p. 460, Dor Hamelaktim v. 5 p. 2914 citing Chazon Ish 57 s.v. vheneh, Brit Olam (Tochen 20), Az Nidbaru 11:8, 12:22, Shabbos Kitchen ch. 9 fnt. 19, Rivevot Efraim 5:260:3, Hilchos Shabbos (Rav Eider fnt. 91)</ref> | |||
# It is permitted to cut vegetables into large pieces even far in advance of a meal.<ref>Dor Hamelaktim v. 5 p. 2913</ref> | |||
## What is considered large pieces? | |||
### Some say that pieces that are larger than one usually cuts them is considered large. Inversely, some say that anything a cook or housewife would consider 'very small' is considered small. | |||
###Some say that pieces that one still needs to chew and can't swallow whole is considered large.<ref>Dor Hamelaktim v. 5 p. 2913-5 cites 3 main approaches: | |||
*Rav Belsky (OU Documents S-34) as holding that the size for tochen is cutting it smaller than one usually cuts. They also quote Rav Elyashiv (Am Mekadshei Sheviyi 1:6:4) and Hilchos Shabbos (Rav Eider fnt. 39) who concur. | |||
*Yashiv Moshe (Nishmat Shabbat 315:2) and the Shabbos Kitchen (p. 130) write that cutting it to whatever is considered by people to be very small is a problem of tochen. | |||
*Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (Shemirat Shabbat Kehilchata ch. 6 fnt. 6, Minchat Shlomo 1:91:13, Shulchan Shlomo 321:13:2) holds that as long as one needs to chew on it to eat it it is considered a small piece. Minchat Ish 3:4:4 s.v. vheneh explains that he doesn't mean that if it is big enough that would one need to chew it then it is considered big and it is permitted to cut it to that size, rather he is just coming to say that if it is a little small then it has made the chewing process easier and is considered tochen. 39 Melachos v. 2 p. 458 seems to apply Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach's opinion to permit cutting any salad since it will still need to be chewed, however, he concludes that we do not follow that opinion. | |||
*Lastly, they cite Zachor Vshamor (Tochen 2) who says that if the pieces are larger than .5 cm^3 it is certainly not considered very small.</ref> | |||
==Utensils designed for grinding== | ==Utensils designed for grinding== | ||
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#There is a machloket amongst the poskim if the prohibition applies only if the food is being cut very small in all dimensions or if it even applies if one is slicing in one direction such as an egg or tomato.<ref>Rav Moshe Feinstein (Iggerot Moshe OC 4:74:Tochen 3) writes that slicing foods in one direction isn’t considered tochen because otherwise there would be no limit. Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (Sh”t Minchat Shlomo 91:13) also rules this way. On the other hand, Ketzot HaShulchan Siman 129 Badei HaShulchan 2 quotes that the Tzemach Tzedek was stringent. Additionally, Orchot Shabbos page 217 chapter 5:footnote 12 writes that Rav Elyashiv was stringent as well.<br /> </ref> | #There is a machloket amongst the poskim if the prohibition applies only if the food is being cut very small in all dimensions or if it even applies if one is slicing in one direction such as an egg or tomato.<ref>Rav Moshe Feinstein (Iggerot Moshe OC 4:74:Tochen 3) writes that slicing foods in one direction isn’t considered tochen because otherwise there would be no limit. Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (Sh”t Minchat Shlomo 91:13) also rules this way. On the other hand, Ketzot HaShulchan Siman 129 Badei HaShulchan 2 quotes that the Tzemach Tzedek was stringent. Additionally, Orchot Shabbos page 217 chapter 5:footnote 12 writes that Rav Elyashiv was stringent as well.<br /> </ref> | ||
==Related Pages== | ==Related Pages== | ||
