Pat Haba Bikisnin: Difference between revisions

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# Since 'Mezonot' rolls are primarily eaten as part of a meal, many say that the bracha is HaMotzei (even if one eats a little) <ref> Vezot HaBracha (pg 19, chapter 19 and pg 386) in name of Rav Elyashiv, Rav Nassim Karlitz, and Or Letzion (Vol 2, 12:4). Many American rabbis ruled that the bracha is HaMotzei including Rabbi Avraham Bik, Rabbi Reuven Feinstein, Rabbi Moshe Heinemann, Rav Moshe Shtern, Rabbi Yisrael Belsky, Rabbi Avrham Bloomenkrantz, and Veten Bracha (Halachos of Brochos by Rabbi Bodner pg 498-9, chapter 27) in name of Rabbi Shlomo Zalman regarding America. </ref> and some say the bracha is Mezonot <ref> Vezot HaBracha (pg 18, chapter 3) in name of Rav Shlomo Zalman and the rabbis on the Badatz Edah Charedit </ref>. Therefore, one should eat it as part of a meal and make HaMotzei. <Ref> http://www.oukosher.org/index.php/common/article/the_mezonos_roll_is_it_a_piece_of_cake_by_rabbi_yaakov_luban/ is the OU's position based on a Teshuva of Rabbi Yisrael Belsky which is that if a Mezonot roll is eaten as part of the meal the bracha is HaMotzei, see [[Making a meal on Mezonot]]. So holds the Star-K http://www.star-k.org/kashrus/kk-issues-pashabah.htm. </ref> However, if that’s impossible, one has what to rely on to make a HaMotzei, and one has what to rely on to make a Mezonot. <Ref> Vezot HaBracha (Birur 56, pg 352) </ref>  
# Since 'Mezonot' rolls are primarily eaten as part of a meal, many say that the bracha is HaMotzei (even if one eats a little) <ref> Vezot HaBracha (pg 19, chapter 19 and pg 386) in name of Rav Elyashiv, Rav Nassim Karlitz, and Or Letzion (Vol 2, 12:4). Many American rabbis ruled that the bracha is HaMotzei including Rabbi Avraham Bik, Rabbi Reuven Feinstein, Rabbi Moshe Heinemann, Rav Moshe Shtern, Rabbi Yisrael Belsky, Rabbi Avrham Bloomenkrantz, and Veten Bracha (Halachos of Brochos by Rabbi Bodner pg 498-9, chapter 27) in name of Rabbi Shlomo Zalman regarding America. </ref> and some say the bracha is Mezonot <ref> Vezot HaBracha (pg 18, chapter 3) in name of Rav Shlomo Zalman and the rabbis on the Badatz Edah Charedit </ref>. Therefore, one should eat it as part of a meal and make HaMotzei. <Ref> http://www.oukosher.org/index.php/common/article/the_mezonos_roll_is_it_a_piece_of_cake_by_rabbi_yaakov_luban/ is the OU's position based on a Teshuva of Rabbi Yisrael Belsky which is that if a Mezonot roll is eaten as part of the meal the bracha is HaMotzei, see [[Making a meal on Mezonot]]. So holds the Star-K http://www.star-k.org/kashrus/kk-issues-pashabah.htm. </ref> However, if that’s impossible, one has what to rely on to make a HaMotzei, and one has what to rely on to make a Mezonot. <Ref> Vezot HaBracha (Birur 56, pg 352) </ref>  
===Pizza===
===Pizza===
# Pizza with dough that’s just flour and water (or only an amount of fruit juice or oil that’s not recognizable in taste), according to Sephardim has the Bracha of HaMotzei even for a small amount. <Ref> S”A 168:17 rules that bread filled with meat or fish has the Bracha of HaMotzei. Magan Avraham 168:44 explains that this Bracha is made even if one doesn't have a keviyut sueda because regarding sweets that fill the bread such as fruit there’s room to say that such fillers make the bread into a temporary snack, however, a substantial filler such as meat, fish, or cheese don’t make the bread change from HaMotzei to Mezonot. Therefore, Rabbi Ovadyah Yosef in Yalkut Yosef (Brachot pg 125, Kitzur S”A 168:3), Halichot Olam vol 2 pg 114, and Sh”t Yabea Omer 9:108(84) rules that regarding pizza the halacha is the same as dough filled with meat which has the Bracha of HaMotzei. So rules Chacham Ben Tzion Abba Shaul in Or Letzion (vol 2, 12:5), and Rabbi Moshe HaLevi in Birkat Hashem (vol 2, 2:62). However, the Taz 168:20 argues on the Magan Avraham and holds that for filled bread the Bracha is Mezonot just like if it was filled with sweets unless there’s a keviyut sueda. Halacha Brurah 168:50 is concerned for the opinion of the Taz and holds that one should make sure to have more than a keviyut sueda, however if one doesn’t have enough and one doesn't have bread, one should make a mezonot. </ref> However, according to Ashkenazim in Israel, the poskim hold that the bracha is Hamotzei, <ref> however, in America, it depends on one's intent, if one is eating it as a snack
# Regular Pizza (with dough that’s just flour and water or only an amount of fruit juice or oil that’s not recognizable in taste), according to Sephardim has the Bracha of HaMotzei even for a small amount. <Ref> S”A 168:17 rules that bread filled with meat or fish has the Bracha of HaMotzei. Magan Avraham 168:44 explains that this Bracha is made even if one doesn't have a keviyut sueda because regarding sweets that fill the bread such as fruit there’s room to say that such fillers make the bread into a temporary snack, however, a substantial filler such as meat, fish, or cheese don’t make the bread change from HaMotzei to Mezonot. Therefore, Rabbi Ovadyah Yosef in Yalkut Yosef (Brachot pg 125, Kitzur S”A 168:3), Halichot Olam vol 2 pg 114, and Sh”t Yabea Omer 9:108(84) rules that regarding pizza the halacha is the same as dough filled with meat which has the Bracha of HaMotzei. So rules Chacham Ben Tzion Abba Shaul in Or Letzion (vol 2, 12:5), and Rabbi Moshe HaLevi in Birkat Hashem (vol 2, 2:62). However, the Taz 168:20 argues on the Magan Avraham and holds that for filled bread the Bracha is Mezonot just like if it was filled with sweets unless there’s a keviyut sueda. Halacha Brurah 168:50 is concerned for the opinion of the Taz and holds that one should make sure to have more than a keviyut sueda, however if one doesn’t have enough and one doesn't have bread, one should make a mezonot. </ref> However, according to Ashkenazim in Israel, the poskim hold that the bracha is Hamotzei, <ref> VeZot HaBracha (pg 21) quotes Rabbi Shlomo Zalman, Rabbi Sheinburg, and Rabbi Moshe Shternbach that the Bracha on pizza (which is made from water and flour) is HaMotzei. </ref> and in America, some say that it depends on one's intent, if one intends to have it as a meal, then the bracha is HaMotzei and if one intends to have it as a snack the bracha is Mezonot. <ref> Veten Bracha (Halachos of Brochos by Rabbi Bodner pg 499-500, chapter 27) writes in the name of Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach that regarding America where some people eat it as a snack, it depends on each person's intent. </ref> whereas others maintain that the bracha is HaMotzei. However all agree if one eats a Shuir Seuda then one should make HaMotzei. <ref> Rav Mordechai Willig (Am Mordechai page 99) and Rav Yisroel Belsky (Mesora 1:40) hold that even in America the bracha is HaMotzei. See http://www.koltorah.org/ravj/14-38_The_Bracha_on_One_Slice_of_Pizza.htm </ref>
Mishna Brurah 168:94 rules like the Magan Avraham as long as that food is eaten for satiation and not a snack. VeZot HaBracha (pg 21) quotes Rabbi Shlomo Zalman, Rabbi Sheinburg, and Rabbi Moshe Shternbach that the Bracha on pizza (which is made from water and flour) is HaMotzei. </ref>
and in America it depends on one's intent, if one intends to have it as a meal, then the bracha is HaMotzei and if one intends to have it as a snack the bracha is Mezonot. <ref> Veten Bracha (Halachos of Brochos by Rabbi Bodner pg 499-500, chapter 27) writes in the name of Rav SHlomo Zalman Auerbach that regarding America where some people eat it as a snack, it depends on each person's intent. </ref>
# Pizza which was kneaded with a majority of fruit juice or eggs is a dispute, some say it's Mezonot, some say it's HaMotzei, and so one should eat it in a meal, and everyone agrees that if one eats the Shuir Seuda (which some say is 2 slices) one should make HaMotzei. <ref>Vezot HaBracha (pg 22) writes in name of Rav Elyashiv and others that the status of such pizza is in doubt and so one should eat it in a meal or eat a Shuir Sueda which the Vezot HaBracha writes is 2 slices if one is full from that amount. </ref>
# Pizza which was kneaded with a majority of fruit juice or eggs is a dispute, some say it's Mezonot, some say it's HaMotzei, and so one should eat it in a meal, and everyone agrees that if one eats the Shuir Seuda (which some say is 2 slices) one should make HaMotzei. <ref>Vezot HaBracha (pg 22) writes in name of Rav Elyashiv and others that the status of such pizza is in doubt and so one should eat it in a meal or eat a Shuir Sueda which the Vezot HaBracha writes is 2 slices if one is full from that amount. </ref>


Revision as of 21:36, 19 February 2011

The Bracha of Pas Haba Bekisnin

  1. Someone who eats a Shuir Keviut Seuda of Pas HaBah Bekisnin must wash with a Bracha, make HaMotzei, and Birkat HaMazon. [1]
  2. However, if one eat a small amount of the Pas Haba Bekisnin as a snack one should make Mezonot, and Al HaMichya. [2]

Three definitions of Pas Haba Bikisnin

The S"A (168:7) rules that there are three definitions of Pas Haba Bikisnin. One therefore makes a Boreh Mineh Mezonot when eating an item that falls into one of the three categories:

  1. The dough itself is sweetened with fruit juice, oil, sugar, honey, margarine, etc.
  2. The bread is filled with a sweet filler such as: chocolate, nuts, fruit, etc. (i.e. Bourekas)
  3. The bread is very hard (and cracks when bent)

Explanation of the first definition

  1. According to Ashkenzim, if there’s a majority (51%) of sweeteners such as fruit juice, oil, egg, margarine, sugar, honey, or the like in comparison to the amount of water added to the flour, then the Bracha is mezonot. [3]However, water mixed into the sweeteners such as diluted fruited juice or margarine (usually 15% water) isn’t included in the calculations of sweeteners to water. [4]
  2. According to Sephardim, if the taste of the sweeteners is recognizable in the dough, then the Bracha is mezonot. [5]

Explanation of the second definition

  1. Dough which is filled with sweeteners such as nuts, chocolate, or the like and is cooked together with the dough, and the taste is recognizable, the bracha is Mezonot. [6]

Explanation of the third definition

  1. If the dough is cooked into a food that's hard and crumbles the bracha is Mezonot. [7]

Examples

  1. The following foods are called Pas HaBah BeKisnin and if one eats a Shuir Seuda one must make a HaMotzei: Berakas, Hotdog in pastry, cake, cookies, pretzels, crackers, and cereals made from the 5 grains. [8]
  2. The following foods are called Tavshil Mezonot and even if one eats a Shuir Seuda one makes a Mezonot: Farina, oatmeal, noodles, rice, soup nuts, farfel, couscous, blintzes, kugel*, and wafers*. [9]
  3. Egg Matzah which was kneaded with mostly fruit juice or eggs (as opposed to water) is considered Pas Haba BiKisnin. [10]
  4. If the pancakes were made with very little oil (just enough to prevent it from getting burned) then it is considered Pas Haba Bikisnin. If the pancakes were made with a significant amount of oil, there's a doubt whether it's considered Pas Haba Bekisnin or not and so if one intends to eat a Shiur Keviut Suedah one should eat it in a meal. If the pancakes were deep fried then the bracha is Mezonot even if a Shuir Keviut Suedah is consumed. [11]

If the food is meant to fill

  1. Mezonot that fall into the category of filled dough or crumbling hard dough, if that food is meant to be eaten to fill oneself, one should make a HaMotzei regardless of how much one ate. However, foods that fall into the category of sweet dough, even if it’s meant to be eaten to satisfy hunger, one should make a Mezonot. [12]

Mezonot Rolls

  1. Since 'Mezonot' rolls are primarily eaten as part of a meal, many say that the bracha is HaMotzei (even if one eats a little) [13] and some say the bracha is Mezonot [14]. Therefore, one should eat it as part of a meal and make HaMotzei. [15] However, if that’s impossible, one has what to rely on to make a HaMotzei, and one has what to rely on to make a Mezonot. [16]

Pizza

  1. Regular Pizza (with dough that’s just flour and water or only an amount of fruit juice or oil that’s not recognizable in taste), according to Sephardim has the Bracha of HaMotzei even for a small amount. [17] However, according to Ashkenazim in Israel, the poskim hold that the bracha is Hamotzei, [18] and in America, some say that it depends on one's intent, if one intends to have it as a meal, then the bracha is HaMotzei and if one intends to have it as a snack the bracha is Mezonot. [19] whereas others maintain that the bracha is HaMotzei. However all agree if one eats a Shuir Seuda then one should make HaMotzei. [20]
  2. Pizza which was kneaded with a majority of fruit juice or eggs is a dispute, some say it's Mezonot, some say it's HaMotzei, and so one should eat it in a meal, and everyone agrees that if one eats the Shuir Seuda (which some say is 2 slices) one should make HaMotzei. [21]

Matzah

  1. The Ashkenazic minhag is to make HaMotzei on Matzeh all year round, whereas the Sephardic minhag is to make Mezonot except on Pesach. [22]

References

  1. ↑ S"A 168:6
  2. ↑ S"A 168:6
  3. ↑ Rama 168:7, Mishna Brurah 168:33 writes that such is the minhag of Ashkenazim.
  4. ↑ VeZot HaBracha (pg 17) in name of Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach and Sh”t Shevet HaLevi 9:44
  5. ↑ S”A 168:7, Yalkut Yosef (Brachot pg 129, Kitzur S”A 168:7)
  6. ↑ S"A 168:7, Mishna Brurah 168:33, Vezot HaBracha (pg 19, chapter 3)
  7. ↑ S"A 168:7. Vezot HaBracha (pg 19, chapter 3) points out that the Mishna Brurah (168:35) writes that it must be that it's usual to be eaten as a snack.
  8. ↑ Vezot HaBracha (pg 26, chapter 3)
  9. ↑ Vezot HaBracha (Chapter 4, pg 26). There he mentions that majority of poskim hold that kugel is Tavshil Mezonot and similarly concerning wafers there’s some doubt in the poskim even though the primary halacha is that it’s Tavshil Mezonot.
  10. ↑ Veten Bracha (Halachos of Brochos by Rabbi Bodner pg 501, chapter 27)
  11. ↑ Veten Bracha (Halachos of Brochos by Rabbi Bodner pg 493-4, chapter 27)
  12. ↑ S”A 168:17 rules that bread filled with meat or fish has the Bracha of HaMotzei. Magan Avraham 168:44 explains that this Bracha is made even if one doesn’t have a keviyut sueda because regarding sweets that fill the bread such as fruit there’s room to say that such fillers make the bread into a temporary snack, however, a substantial filler such as meat, fish, or cheese don’t make the bread change from HaMotzei to Mezonot. So rules the Mishna Brurah 168:94 and Yalkut Yosef (Brachot pg 125, Kitzur S”A 168:3). However, the Taz 168:20 argues that for filled bread the Bracha is Mezonot like in S”A 168:7 unless there’s a keviyut sueda. [Interestingly, the Ben Ish Chai (Pinchas 20), Kaf HaChaim 168:137, and Halacha Brurah 168:49 are concerned for the opinion of the Taz and hold that one should make sure to have more than a keviyut sueda, however if one doesn’t have enough and one doesn’t have bread, one should make a mezonot.] The VeZot HaBracha (pg 17 note 1) rules like Mishna Brurah that for bread that’s filled and is meant to fill one up the bracha is HaMotzei.
  13. ↑ Vezot HaBracha (pg 19, chapter 19 and pg 386) in name of Rav Elyashiv, Rav Nassim Karlitz, and Or Letzion (Vol 2, 12:4). Many American rabbis ruled that the bracha is HaMotzei including Rabbi Avraham Bik, Rabbi Reuven Feinstein, Rabbi Moshe Heinemann, Rav Moshe Shtern, Rabbi Yisrael Belsky, Rabbi Avrham Bloomenkrantz, and Veten Bracha (Halachos of Brochos by Rabbi Bodner pg 498-9, chapter 27) in name of Rabbi Shlomo Zalman regarding America.
  14. ↑ Vezot HaBracha (pg 18, chapter 3) in name of Rav Shlomo Zalman and the rabbis on the Badatz Edah Charedit
  15. ↑ http://www.oukosher.org/index.php/common/article/the_mezonos_roll_is_it_a_piece_of_cake_by_rabbi_yaakov_luban/ is the OU's position based on a Teshuva of Rabbi Yisrael Belsky which is that if a Mezonot roll is eaten as part of the meal the bracha is HaMotzei, see Making a meal on Mezonot. So holds the Star-K http://www.star-k.org/kashrus/kk-issues-pashabah.htm.
  16. ↑ Vezot HaBracha (Birur 56, pg 352)
  17. ↑ S”A 168:17 rules that bread filled with meat or fish has the Bracha of HaMotzei. Magan Avraham 168:44 explains that this Bracha is made even if one doesn't have a keviyut sueda because regarding sweets that fill the bread such as fruit there’s room to say that such fillers make the bread into a temporary snack, however, a substantial filler such as meat, fish, or cheese don’t make the bread change from HaMotzei to Mezonot. Therefore, Rabbi Ovadyah Yosef in Yalkut Yosef (Brachot pg 125, Kitzur S”A 168:3), Halichot Olam vol 2 pg 114, and Sh”t Yabea Omer 9:108(84) rules that regarding pizza the halacha is the same as dough filled with meat which has the Bracha of HaMotzei. So rules Chacham Ben Tzion Abba Shaul in Or Letzion (vol 2, 12:5), and Rabbi Moshe HaLevi in Birkat Hashem (vol 2, 2:62). However, the Taz 168:20 argues on the Magan Avraham and holds that for filled bread the Bracha is Mezonot just like if it was filled with sweets unless there’s a keviyut sueda. Halacha Brurah 168:50 is concerned for the opinion of the Taz and holds that one should make sure to have more than a keviyut sueda, however if one doesn’t have enough and one doesn't have bread, one should make a mezonot.
  18. ↑ VeZot HaBracha (pg 21) quotes Rabbi Shlomo Zalman, Rabbi Sheinburg, and Rabbi Moshe Shternbach that the Bracha on pizza (which is made from water and flour) is HaMotzei.
  19. ↑ Veten Bracha (Halachos of Brochos by Rabbi Bodner pg 499-500, chapter 27) writes in the name of Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach that regarding America where some people eat it as a snack, it depends on each person's intent.
  20. ↑ Rav Mordechai Willig (Am Mordechai page 99) and Rav Yisroel Belsky (Mesora 1:40) hold that even in America the bracha is HaMotzei. See http://www.koltorah.org/ravj/14-38_The_Bracha_on_One_Slice_of_Pizza.htm
  21. ↑ Vezot HaBracha (pg 22) writes in name of Rav Elyashiv and others that the status of such pizza is in doubt and so one should eat it in a meal or eat a Shuir Sueda which the Vezot HaBracha writes is 2 slices if one is full from that amount.
  22. ↑ Vezot HaBracha (pg 20)
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