Hotzaah: Difference between revisions
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===Summary of Dispute Between Mishkenot Yakov and Bet Efraim=== | ===Summary of Dispute Between Mishkenot Yakov and Bet Efraim=== | ||
# Mishkenot Yakov<ref>[https://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1095&pgnum=113 Responsa n. 120]</ref> makes 2 independent arguments<Ref>One minor argument he tacks on is that even in a mavoy mefulash there is a dispute whether a tzurat hapetach is sufficient. The Rashba and Rabbenu Yehonatan hold that doors are necessary. Even though most rishonim (Rif, Rambam, and Rosh) are lenient about this point, he brings 2 proofs from the gemara for the Rashba.</ref> to challenge all communal eruvin using tzurat hapetach. | # Mishkenot Yakov<ref>[https://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1095&pgnum=113 Responsa n. 120]</ref> makes 2 independent arguments<Ref>One minor argument he tacks on is that even in a mavoy mefulash there is a dispute whether a tzurat hapetach is sufficient. The Rashba and Rabbenu Yehonatan hold that doors are necessary. Even though most rishonim (Rif, Rambam, and Rosh) are lenient about this point, he brings 2 proofs from the gemara for the Rashba.</ref> to challenge all communal eruvin using tzurat hapetach. | ||
## He<ref>[https://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1095&pgnum=116 s.v. v'ad]</ref> enumerates 16 rishonim who hold that reshut harabbim does not need a population of 600,000 including: Rif,<ref>Eruvin 17b</ref> Rambam,<ref>Hilchot Shabbat 17:33</ref> Rabbenu Tam,<ref>Tosfot Eruvin 6a s.v. keysad, also cited by Ritva Eruvin 59a</ref> Rashbam, Raavan, Ramban, Rashba, Ritva, Ran, Hagahot Mordechai, Rivash, Rash, Riva, Ri Halevi, Mordechai, and Riaz.<ref>See, however, Piskei Riaz 5:1 where he quotes 600,000 as a requirement.</ref> Simultaneously, he argues that really only 5 rishonim hold that 600,000 is necessary including Smak, Smag, Sefer Hatrumah, Roke'ach, and Maharam. Therefore, he holds that the halacha follows those rishonim who do not require 600,000. Therefore, our cities irrelevant of its population are a reshut harabbim and a tzurat hapetach doesn't work to enclose a reshut harabbim. | ## He<ref>[https://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1095&pgnum=116 s.v. v'ad]</ref> enumerates 16 rishonim who hold that reshut harabbim does not need a population of 600,000 including: Rif,<ref>Eruvin 17b</ref> Rambam,<ref>Hilchot Shabbat 17:33</ref> Rabbenu Tam,<ref>Tosfot Eruvin 6a s.v. keysad, also cited by Ritva Eruvin 59a</ref> Rashbam, Raavan, Ramban, Rashba, Ritva, Ran, Hagahot Mordechai, Rivash, Rash, Riva, Ri Halevi, Mordechai, and Riaz.<ref>See, however, Piskei Riaz 5:1 where he quotes 600,000 as a requirement. This is reiterated in Riaz 1:1:5 that 600,000 is a requirement.</ref> Simultaneously, he argues that really only 5 rishonim hold that 600,000 is necessary including Smak, Smag, Sefer Hatrumah, Roke'ach,<ref>Roke'ach 173 and 175 is clear that he holds like Rashi that a population 600,000 is necessary for a reshut harabbim.</ref> and Maharam. Therefore, he holds that the halacha follows those rishonim who do not require 600,000. Therefore, our cities irrelevant of its population are a reshut harabbim and a tzurat hapetach doesn't work to enclose a reshut harabbim. | ||
## Even according to those who require a population of 600,000, they agree that a wall of a tzurat hapetach is nullified by the travel of all the townspeople, even though they aren't 600,000. This argument rests on the assumption that we hold ''ayti rabbim umevatel mechitzta'' (heb. איתי רבים ומבטל מחיצתא; trans. the masses come and nullify the wall). This argument is predicated on the Hagahot Ashri.<Ref>[https://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1095&st=&pgnum=118 Mishkenot Yakov 120 s.v. amnam] based on Hagahot Ashri (Eruvin 1:8), Tosfot Eruvin 62b s.v. vrebbe, and Ritva Eruvin 22a who sound like ayti rabbim applies even in a non-reshut harabbim.</ref> | ## Even according to those who require a population of 600,000, they agree that a wall of a tzurat hapetach is nullified by the travel of all the townspeople, even though they aren't 600,000. This argument rests on the assumption that we hold ''ayti rabbim umevatel mechitzta'' (heb. איתי רבים ומבטל מחיצתא; trans. the masses come and nullify the wall). This argument is predicated on the Hagahot Ashri.<Ref>[https://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1095&st=&pgnum=118 Mishkenot Yakov 120 s.v. amnam] based on Hagahot Ashri (Eruvin 1:8), Tosfot Eruvin 62b s.v. vrebbe, and Ritva Eruvin 22a who sound like ayti rabbim applies even in a non-reshut harabbim.</ref> | ||
## To strengthen his point that even in walled cities a tzurat hapetach is insufficient to close gaps, he argues that a gap of more than 10 amot is deoritta. His biggest proof is that Yerushalayim is considered to be a reshut harabbim in Eruvin 101a and Pesachim 66b, even though it had walls. | ## To strengthen his point that even in walled cities a tzurat hapetach is insufficient to close gaps, he argues that a gap of more than 10 amot is deoritta. His biggest proof is that Yerushalayim is considered to be a reshut harabbim in Eruvin 101a and Pesachim 66b, even though it had walls. | ||
