Counting Jewish People: Difference between revisions
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# Counting Jewish names on a list is a dispute. <Ref>Chatan Sofer (Y”D 106) in name of his father the חתם סופר who says that it’s forbidden Deoritta. </ref> | # Counting Jewish names on a list is a dispute. <Ref>Chatan Sofer (Y”D 106) in name of his father the חתם סופר who says that it’s forbidden Deoritta. </ref> | ||
==The census== | ==The census== | ||
# | # Some hold participating in the Israeli consenus is permissible. <Ref>Sh”t Shevet HaLevi O”C 9:35, Sh”t Mishpatei Uziel 4:2, Sh"t Seridei Esh 2:48, Menachem Kasher (Sh"t Divrei Menachem 1:36), Rabbi Unterman quoted in Techumin (vol 4 pg 335) </ref> while others forbid. <Ref> Rabbi Goren (HaTzofeh Sivan 5743), Rav Chaim Kanievsky (HaTzofeh vol 15 pg 8 col 1; Nachal Eitan 6:10(7)), Sh"t Tzitz Eliezer 7:3, and the Edah Charedit (HaEdah Behalotcha 5733) </ref> | ||
==Links== | ==Links== | ||
Revision as of 14:06, 31 March 2011
General
- There’s a prohibition to count Jewish people. [1] According to most authorities this prohibition is a biblical command. [2]
Permissible ways
By means of something else
- Counting through something else like counting the fingers of people is only permitted for a serious need or need of a mitzvah. [3]
For a mitzvah
- The prohibition applies even counting for a mitzvah. [4]
- The minhag is to allow counting for a mitzvah using the פסוק of Hoshiyah Et Amecha…הושיעה את עמך וברך את נחלתך ורעם ונשאם עד העולם in order to count for a minyan. [5]
In thought
- Many poskim permit counting in one’s thought (by looking and counting in one’s head without making any motions) for a mitzvah or any need. [6]
Other examples
- Numbering Jewish graves is prohibited, however it’s permissible to number each section assuming that there’s different number of graves in each section. [7]
- It’s a problem of counting Jewish people for people or children standing in a line for each one to say his number. [8]
- Counting Jewish names on a list is a dispute. [9]
The census
Links
- http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/756058/Rabbi_Aryeh_Lebowitz/Ten_Minute_Halacha_-_Counting_Jews
- http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/735675/Rabbi_Dr._J._David_Bleich/The_Halachic_Controversy_Concerning_the_Israeli_Census
References
- ↑ The source in Torah for the prohibition is found in Shemot 30:12 which says that each person counted must give an atonement in order to prevent a plague. Gemara Brachot 62b relates that when David HaMelech made a mistake to count the Jews a plague actually did come onto the people. Gemara Yoma 22b rules that it's forbidden to count Jews even for a mitzvah purpose based on Shmuel 1, 15:4 which says that Shaul counted the people by means of lambs, giving one to each person and then collecting them again. Most achronim (Magan Avraham 156:2, Pri Chadash 55:1, Kaf HaChaim 13:10) hold that the prohibition still applies nowadays and are supported by the Rambam Temidin UMussafin 4:4. The Aynayim LeMishpat (Brachot 62b) who says that there’s no prohibition nowadays based on Rabbenu Chananel in Brachot, however, the Sh”t Tzitz Eliezer 7:3 (Chapter 1 section 2) strongly disagrees in explanation of the Gemara. All achronim agree that there’s still a prohibition in effect nowadays including the Magan Avraham 156:2, Gra (Aderet Eliyahu Parshat Ki Tisa).
- ↑ Sh”t Tzitz Eliezer 7:3 (Chapter 1 section 1)
- ↑ S”t Tzitz Eliezer 7:3:8, Seridei Esh 1:140, Sh”t Shevet HaLevi 1:34
- ↑ Magan Avraham 156:2
- ↑ Kitzur S”A 15:3, Piskei Teshuvot 156:24, and Minchat Asher Parshat Bamidbar (Siman 1)
- ↑ Yalkut Yosef (Piskei DeZimrah 55 note 2, Sherit Yosef vol 2 pg 93) permits counting for a minyan in one’s mind. Sh"t Tzitz Eliezer 7:3:8, Minchat Asher (Bamidbar 1) in name of the Kaf HaChaim Sofer and Kaf HaChaim Palagi permit. However, Etz Yosef (Yoma 22b; quoted by Piskei Teshuvot 156:24) is strict.
- ↑ Sh”t Igrot Moshe Y”D 2:117(2)
- ↑ Shevet HaLevi 1:34
- ↑ Chatan Sofer (Y”D 106) in name of his father the חתם סופר who says that it’s forbidden Deoritta.
- ↑ Sh”t Shevet HaLevi O”C 9:35, Sh”t Mishpatei Uziel 4:2, Sh"t Seridei Esh 2:48, Menachem Kasher (Sh"t Divrei Menachem 1:36), Rabbi Unterman quoted in Techumin (vol 4 pg 335)
- ↑ Rabbi Goren (HaTzofeh Sivan 5743), Rav Chaim Kanievsky (HaTzofeh vol 15 pg 8 col 1; Nachal Eitan 6:10(7)), Sh"t Tzitz Eliezer 7:3, and the Edah Charedit (HaEdah Behalotcha 5733)
