Veset: Difference between revisions

* [http://www.yutorah.org/sidebar/lecture.cfm/869780/rabbi-mordechai-i-willig/niddah-shiur-61-veset-during-pregnancy-and-nursing/ Rav Mordechai Willig (Niddah Shiur 61, min 39-41)] is machmir to keep vestot during pregnancy and to be poresh and do bedika on Onah Beynonit. If she doesn't see during pregnancy these vestot will only exist one time if she doesn't have an established veset.</ref>

# A post-partum woman whether she is nursing or not needs to be concerned about vestot if she does see her period. That is, she needs to be concerned about a non-established veset, establishing a veset, and about a previous veset.<ref>The gemara Niddah 9a treats a post-partum woman as someone who isn't supposed to see her period for 24 months. Based on the Rashba ([http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=8922&st=&pgnum=363 Torat Habayit 13a]) this has relevance to not being concerned about veset. The Shulchan Aruch 189:33 rules that a woman who gave birth doesn't establish a veset for 24 months whether or not she is actually nursing, but should be concerned for a non-established veset. The Shulchan Aruch 189:34 also rules that a woman who gave birth for 24 month doesn't need to be concerned for her old veset. Nonetheless, Igrot Moshe YD 3:52 rules that since nowadays women do see their period within 24 months of birth we have to be concerned for a veset during that time. This is also the opinion of Taharat Habayit v. 1 p. 85. Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 376 writes that many poskim agree.</ref>

# The blood accompanying childbirth has no relevant to veset, neither to establish a onah beynonit or a beginning of the interval to set when she'll bleed next. Until she menstruates once after childbirth there is no concern of veset.<ref>The Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 375. Badei Hashulchan 189:33 s.v. shetireh writes that blood of childbirth is certainly different than niddah blood, however, he is unsure when the consider the blood accompanying the childbirth to have ended. </ref>

===24 Months after Childbirth===

# If a woman began menstruating before 24 months, according to many poskim her old veset applies and she can create a new established veset or a non-established veset. During that time she can't uproot an old veset by seeing on other times or by establishing a new established veset. <Ref>The Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 376-7 clarifies that considering the period of 24 months after childbirth to be a time when she might see her period is only a chumra but it can't be used to uproot an old veset. However, if she did menstruate before 24 months then after 24 months there is no new concern immediately upon the conclusion of 24 months. </ref>  

# However, if a woman didn't begin menstruating before 24 months after childbirth her old vestot return at that time.<ref>Shulchan Aruch 189:34</ref> If she had a veset haflagah it only begins to apply after she sees once.<ref>Shulchan Aruch 189:34</ref> If she had a veset hachodesh according to some it applies immediately after 24 months and according to others it applies only if she saw once.<ref>Shulchan Aruch 189:34 like the opinion of the Rashba holds that a veset hachodesh returns immediately. However, the Shach 189:75 quotes the Raavad and Ramban who argue that even veset hachodesh doesn't return without first seeing once. The Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 377 quotes both opinions.</ref> A woman who didn't have a veset is concerned about a onah beynonit only once she sees once.<ref>The Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 378 based on Shulchan Aruch 189:34 as onah beynonit is like haflagah that it can't be established with less than 2 periods.</ref> A non-established veset according to many poskim it doesn't return.<ref> Pitchei Teshuva 189:32 quotes the Nodeh Beyehuda 2:86 who says that the veset sheino kavuah doesn’t return. However, the Lechem Vsimla 189:57 argues. The Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 378 is lenient, while the Badei Hashulchan 189:349 is strict.</ref>

==Elderly Women==

# Certain laws of veset apply specifically to an elderly woman. The halacha's definition is once she is old enough that an average woman could be called grandmother by a stranger and she wouldn't mind. <ref>The gemara Niddah 9a cites a dispute when a woman is considered elderly for this topic. Either it depends on when society calls women old or when she wouldn't be embarrassed or mind being called mother. The Rambam (Isurei Biyah 9:5) and Rashba ([http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=8922&st=&pgnum=356 Torat Habayit Hakatzar 9b]) hold that it depends on when she doesn't mind being called mother. Tosfot 9b. s.v. kol clarifies that her status depends on when a regular women wouldn't be embarrassed or mind being called mother and not her personal preference. Shulchan Aruch 189:29 rules that once she is old enough to be called mother and not care she is considered elderly for this halacha. The Badei Hashulchan 189:320 and Taharat Habayit v. 1 p. 86 write that the halacha today depends on whether she minds being called grandmother today and not mother.</ref> The poskim don't give a clear ruling as to when a woman is considered an elderly woman. A woman in her mid-sixties is considered in this category.<ref>The Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 379 writes that women would mind being called "old" when they are in their fifties even though that is the average age of menopause. He adds that in the mid-sixties certainly a woman should be considered elderly. See Taharat Habayit v. 1 p. 86-7 for a range of ages when potentially a woman could begin to be considered elderly between 48 and 65.</ref>