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:Thank you very much [[User:YitzchakSultan]], I observe Melava Malka but had only heard recently that Orthodox Jews do the same thing -which I think is beautiful! :D I think a link in the article to [[Havdalah]] and [[Melava Malka]] would certainly be appropriate wouldn't it? [[User:MishnaQaraite|MishnaQaraite]] ([[User talk:MishnaQaraite|talk]]) 03:42, 18 January 2016 (EST)
: I agree with the idea for the links.--[[User:YitzchakSultan|YitzchakSultan]] ([[User talk:YitzchakSultan|talk]]) 00:12, 19 January 2016 (EST)
== Resolving Yerushalmi Brachot 1:1 for Each Approach ==
* Yerushalmi Brachot 1:1 discusses why the twilight of the morning from Olot Hashachar until Netz is considered day if the twilight at night from Shekiya until Tzeit is also considered day. The gemara answers either that it is based on pesukim or logic that Olot Hashachar is already called day. One of the reasons presented is that just like a king when he comes to greet the people everyone in their anticipation considers it like he came even before he actually arrives. When he leaves they don't consider it like he left until he actually left. That is why both the twilight of the morning and the night are considered day. This is consistent with Rabbenu Tam and in fact the Ramban in Torat Haadam Avelut Yeshana cites this Yerushalmi as a proof for Rabbenu Tam. However, the Rashba Shabbat 35a cites the Yerushalmi as a proof against Rabbenu Tam. The Peni Moshe Brachot 1:1, the teacher of the Gra, explains the Yerushalmi according to the Gra. The Yerushalmi asked why is the twilight of the morning from Olot Hashachar until Netz considered day if part of the twilight at night from Shekiya until Tzeit is considered night.
* Tangentially, the other reason that the Yerushalmi provides is seemingly incomprehensible according to everyone. It says that if both twilights were considered night then the day and night would be unequal. The Minchat Cohen ch. 4 emends the text and explains it as a question. However, the Mareh Panim Brachot 1:1 s.v. im explains that it doesn't mean equal; it just means discernable. Since it isn't possible to have a clear time that is comparable to tzeit hakochavim in the morning in the middle of the twilight, the Torah established olot as the beginning of the day.

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