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Hatmana: Difference between revisions
From Halachipedia
In footnote 16 after the long list it says they are all lenient because they are not meant to be totally separate. That doesnt make much sense. It should be corrected.
(I took out the י"א which is machmir. It would seem that since the general minhag is to be maykel. The footnote suffices. Agree?) |
(In footnote 16 after the long list it says they are all lenient because they are not meant to be totally separate. That doesnt make much sense. It should be corrected.) |
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## Even in this case - when the pot is on a source of heat, one may place a wide tray on top of the pot and put the cloth over the tray. In this way the cloth will not touch the sides of the pot and is therefore permitted.<ref> The Tur 257:8 adds in the name of his father, the Rosh, that if the clothes aren’t touching the pot, it is not the normal way to do hatmana and is permitted. Thus, Shulchan Aruch 257:8 rules that as long as the pot isn’t touching the coals, so that it is a permissible shehiyah, one may put a tray on top of the pot with a cloth on top of it. In this way the cloth doesn’t touch the sides of the pot and is thus not hatmana. Minchat Cohen (Mishmeret [[Shabbat]] 8) explains that S”A requires both requirements: 1) the pot doesn’t touch the coals and 2) the clothes don’t touch the sides of the pot. Shemirat Shabbat Kehilchata 1:76 accepts this.</ref> | ## Even in this case - when the pot is on a source of heat, one may place a wide tray on top of the pot and put the cloth over the tray. In this way the cloth will not touch the sides of the pot and is therefore permitted.<ref> The Tur 257:8 adds in the name of his father, the Rosh, that if the clothes aren’t touching the pot, it is not the normal way to do hatmana and is permitted. Thus, Shulchan Aruch 257:8 rules that as long as the pot isn’t touching the coals, so that it is a permissible shehiyah, one may put a tray on top of the pot with a cloth on top of it. In this way the cloth doesn’t touch the sides of the pot and is thus not hatmana. Minchat Cohen (Mishmeret [[Shabbat]] 8) explains that S”A requires both requirements: 1) the pot doesn’t touch the coals and 2) the clothes don’t touch the sides of the pot. Shemirat Shabbat Kehilchata 1:76 accepts this.</ref> | ||
## According to most poskim it is forbidden to insulate a pot before Shabbat if it is on top of another pot which is on the fire.<ref>Kaf Hachaim 258:3 writes based on the Magen Avraham 258:1 that insulating a pot on top of another pot that is on the fire is forbidden even before Shabbat since it is considered like hatmana bdvar hamosif hevel. Mishna Brurah 258:2 agrees. Kaf Hachaim adds that according to the lenient opinion in the Rama 257:7 since there is no issue of shehiya on a pot on top of another pot there's also no issue of hatmana, but that is only if that is the minhag.</ref> | ## According to most poskim it is forbidden to insulate a pot before Shabbat if it is on top of another pot which is on the fire.<ref>Kaf Hachaim 258:3 writes based on the Magen Avraham 258:1 that insulating a pot on top of another pot that is on the fire is forbidden even before Shabbat since it is considered like hatmana bdvar hamosif hevel. Mishna Brurah 258:2 agrees. Kaf Hachaim adds that according to the lenient opinion in the Rama 257:7 since there is no issue of shehiya on a pot on top of another pot there's also no issue of hatmana, but that is only if that is the minhag.</ref> | ||
===Insulating Food | ===Insulating Food within Another Food=== | ||
# It is permissible to [[insulating food|insulate food]] by submerging it | # It is permissible to [[insulating food|insulate food]] by submerging it within another food if there is nothing separating between them. <Ref> Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 1:72 </ref> | ||
# Before [[Shabbat]], one may wrap fully cooked food in a plastic, nylon, or aluminum bag and submerge it in a pot of hot food (such as chulent).< | # Before [[Shabbat]], one may wrap fully cooked food in a plastic, nylon, or aluminum bag and submerge it in a pot of hot food (such as chulent). Some are stringent.<ref> Chazon Ish 37:32 rules that a vessel inside a pot of hot water doesn’t have an issue of hatmana. Aruch HaShulchan 258:3 and Sh”t Shevet HaLevi 3:47 argue on the Chazon Ish; however, Chazon Ovadyah ([[Shabbat]] 1 pg 62) says one can rely on the Chazon Ish to be lenient, especially if the food is fully cooked (for which Rama 257:7 permits hatmana). Sh”t Shevet HaLevi 8:15(4) says that there is room to be lenient since the bag is only separating between the foods as it would have been hot from the pot nonetheless. Sh”t Vayeshev Moshe (Zanger) O”C 19 adds that the bag or aluminum isn’t a real vessel that separates the food inside it. Rav Shlomo Zalman in Sh”t Minchat Shlomo (2:34(20) in Otsrot Shlomo version), Sh”t LeHorot Natan O”C 12, Kovetz Or Yisrael 5:23, Sh”t Shraga HaMeir 4:63, 6:3, Megilat Sefer on [[Shabbat]] 4:13, Sh”t Kinyan Torah 4:24, Sh”t Az Nidabru 6:78, Sh”t Or Letzion 2:17(13), and Sh”t Maaseh Nisim 163 agree that there’s no hatmana in our case of a food within another food since it’s not meant to be totally separate. | ||
* In the 2nd edition of Shemirat Shabbat Kehilchasa 42:63 he was | *In the 2nd edition of Shemirat Shabbat Kehilchasa 42:63 he was strict regarding materials that don’t allow liquid through such as plastic, nylon, or aluminum liners inside chulent or crock pots, however in the 3rd edition there’s an explicit retraction in 1:87 quoting Rav Shlomo Zalman to permit in all circumstances. | ||
* Meor [[Shabbat]] 3 pg 519, and Menuchat Ahavah 1:3(27) are somewhat strict on the issue, the Minhag is to be lenient on this issue. </ref> | *Meor [[Shabbat]] 3 pg 519, and Menuchat Ahavah 1:3(27) are somewhat strict on the issue, the Minhag is to be lenient on this issue.</ref> | ||
# It is forbidden on Shabbat to insulate a bottle of liquid inside a container of hot water even if it won't reach yad soledet bo. However, according to Ashkenazim, it is permitted to insulate a bottle of liquid in a container of hot water if the bottle is partly out of the hot water (assuming that there is no issue of bishul).<ref>Mishna Brurah 258:2, Dirshu Footnote 258:7</ref> | # It is forbidden on Shabbat to insulate a bottle of liquid inside a container of hot water even if it won't reach yad soledet bo. However, according to Ashkenazim, it is permitted to insulate a bottle of liquid in a container of hot water if the bottle is partly out of the hot water (assuming that there is no issue of bishul).<ref>Mishna Brurah 258:2, Dirshu Footnote 258:7</ref> | ||
===Hot Plate Blanket=== | ===Hot Plate Blanket=== | ||
