Sharp Foods: Difference between revisions
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→Fried in a Meat Pot and Cooked With a Dairy Spoon
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===Cut with Dairy Knife and Cooked with a Meat Soup=== | ===Cut with Dairy Knife and Cooked with a Meat Soup=== | ||
# If a dairy knife is used to cut an onion and it is then put in a meat food if that meat food is liquidy such as a soup and is sixty times the width of the knife the entire mixture and onion is permitted.<ref>The Shulchan Aruch YD 94:6 writes that if vegetables absorb taste of meat and they are then cooked in a milk pot if it can be ascertained how much meat was absorbed in the vegetables, if in the pot there's sixty times the meat everything is permitted. The Rama explains that we don't say that the meat taste should expand to the size of the vegetables since they are all permitted. Maharam Lublin 28 writes that this principle is also true in a case of an onion cooked with a meat knife that is cooked with milk that if there's sixty times the meat that the knife absorbed in the milk it is permitted. Shach 94:23 codifies this. Rabbi Akiva Eiger 94:7 questions this as Shulchan Aruch implies that only if the food is cooked in a milk pot is the vegetables permitted but not if it is cooked in milk. His reasoning is that once milk is absorbed into the vegetables it becomes forbidden. </ref> | # If a dairy knife is used to cut an onion and it is then put in a meat food if that meat food is liquidy such as a soup and is sixty times the width of the knife the entire mixture and onion is permitted.<ref>The Shulchan Aruch YD 94:6 writes that if vegetables absorb taste of meat and they are then cooked in a milk pot if it can be ascertained how much meat was absorbed in the vegetables, if in the pot there's sixty times the meat everything is permitted. The Rama explains that we don't say that the meat taste should expand to the size of the vegetables since they are all permitted. Maharam Lublin 28 writes that this principle is also true in a case of an onion cooked with a meat knife that is cooked with milk that if there's sixty times the meat that the knife absorbed in the milk it is permitted. Shach 94:23 codifies this. Rabbi Akiva Eiger 94:7 questions this as Shulchan Aruch implies that only if the food is cooked in a milk pot is the vegetables permitted but not if it is cooked in milk. His reasoning is that once milk is absorbed into the vegetables it becomes forbidden. </ref> | ||
===Fried in a Meat Pot and | ===Fried in a Meat Pot and Added to a Parve Soup=== | ||
#If onions were fried in a meat pot and then added to a soup, that soup should be treated as meat. Even though at this point the onions aren't considered sharp since they finished frying they still have | #If onions were fried in a meat pot and then added to a soup, that soup should be treated as meat. Even though at this point the onions aren't considered sharp since they finished frying they still have their meat taste from when they were frying in the meat pot. Since they were added to a soup the soup should be considered meat and may not be eaten with milk.<ref>Dvar Charif 3:6. He cites Yad Yehuda 95:16 and Darkei Teshuva 95:39 but writes that this is obvious.</ref> | ||
#If onions were fried in a meat pot and then added to a soup and then removed from the soup there is a dispute if the soup is considered meat.<ref>Dvar Charif ch. 3 fnt. 28 writes that according to those who hold that the onion which accepted meat taste only gives off a weak taste then there is only nat bar nat in the soup. If milk is then mixed into the soup it is still kosher. Or if the soup is reheated in a dairy pot it is still kosher. However, according to the Magen Avraham 451:31 the onion gives off a strong taste (one noten taam). Then the soup is like it was cooked with meat and if milk is added or cooked in a meat pot is a problem. See Dvar Charif 10:1, Shach 95:3, Pri Chadash 95:5, Minchat Yakov 57:3, Chachmat Adam 48:1, Bear Yitzchak YD 8. </ref> | #If onions were fried in a meat pot and then added to a soup and then removed from the soup there is a dispute if the soup is considered meat.<ref>Dvar Charif ch. 3 fnt. 28 writes that according to those who hold that the onion which accepted meat taste only gives off a weak taste then there is only nat bar nat in the soup. If milk is then mixed into the soup it is still kosher. Or if the soup is reheated in a dairy pot it is still kosher. However, according to the Magen Avraham 451:31 the onion gives off a strong taste (one noten taam). Then the soup is like it was cooked with meat and if milk is added or cooked in a meat pot is a problem. See Dvar Charif 10:1, Shach 95:3, Pri Chadash 95:5, Minchat Yakov 57:3, Chachmat Adam 48:1, Bear Yitzchak YD 8. </ref> | ||
===Onion Cut with Meat Knife and Added to a Parve Soup=== | |||
#An onion that was cut with a meat knife and then cooked in a parve soup in a parve pot, the pot remains parve.<ref>Dvar Charif 10:1. He explains that the taste of meat transferred (1) from the meat to the knife (2) to the onion (3) to the soup (4) to the pot. Even though we look at the nat bar nat of dvar charif as one nat, the taam from the onion is only one taam and then the soup is nat bar nat and the pot is nat bar nat with two kelim which is permitted according to everyone.</ref> | |||
#An onion that cut with a meat knife and then cooked in a parve dry dish, such as frying onions with fish, there is a dispute whether the pot is now meat.<ref>according to the Magen Avraham the onion gives off a single taste of meat into the pot, however, according to the Even Haozer the onion gives off the nat bar nat taste into the pot. (He adds the Chavot Daat 122 as well specifically regarding when the onion was cut with a meat knife and not fried in a meat pot.)</ref> | |||
===Onions Fried in a Meat Pot and Mixed with Dairy Spatula=== | |||
#If onions were fried in a meat pot and after they were finished frying they were mixed with an eino ben yomo dairy spatula, the spatula should be kashered.<ref>Dvar Charif siman 12:2:6 writes that whether the onions which got the taste of the meat from the pot can transfer it to the spatula is a discussion if nat bar nat is a problem when it involves 2 kelim. Here the meat taste went (1) from the meat to the pot, (2) then to the onions, and (3) then to the spatula. Even though we view a nat bar nat of meat in the onions as one taam, still in the spatula it is nat bar nat with 2 kelim. Bottom line, he says that although there's many factors to permit nat bar nat with 2 kelim after the fact, in practice we should be strict to kasher. Certainly the eino ben yomo spatula needs kashering like in the Rama 94:5. Also, the parve spatula doesn't really have that chumra, nonetheless it should be kashered lest it be used in the future for a dvar charif which would bring out a taste of nat bar nat with 2 kelim which isn't permitted initially.</ref> | |||
#If parve liquid that is charif is cooked in a meat pot and then an eino ben yomo dairy spoon is used to mix it, the spoon, liquid, and pot should be treated as non-kosher and kashered.<ref>Dvar Charif siman 12:2:6 says that the charif liquid brings out a dairy taste from the spoon and a meat taste from the pot and it is all non-kosher.</ref> | |||
===Onions Fried in a Meat Pot and Mixed with Parve Spatula=== | |||
#If onions were fried in a meat pot and after they were finished frying they were mixed with a parve spatula, the spatula should be treated as meat.<ref>Dvar Charif siman 12:2:6</ref> | |||
#If parve liquid that is charif is cooked in a meat pot and then a parve spoon is used to mix it, the spoon should be treated as meat.<ref>Dvar Charif siman 12:2:6 writes that in theory there's reasons to be lenient since it is nat bar nat with 2 kelim, in practice we're strict so that the parve spoon isn't later used for a dvar charif. The taste is (1) from the meat to the pot, (2) then to the liquid, (3) then to the spoon. Even though the liquid is treated as one taam still the spoon is treated as nat bar nat with 2 kelim. He says that certainly the Magen Avraham would forbid it but his discussion is within the Even Haozer's view.</ref> | |||
===Onions Fried in a Parve Pot and Mixed with Meat Spatula=== | |||
#If parve liquid that is charif is cooked in a parve pot and then a meat spoon is used to mix it, the pot should be treated as meat.<ref>Dvar Charif siman 12:2:6 writes that in theory there's reasons to be lenient since it is nat bar nat with 2 kelim, in practice we're strict so that the parve spoon isn't later used for a dvar charif. The taste is (1) from the meat to the spoon, (2) then to the liquid, (3) then to the pot. Even though the liquid is treated as one taam still the spoon is treated as nat bar nat with 2 kelim. He says that certainly the Magen Avraham would forbid it but his discussion is within the Even Haozer's view.</ref> | |||
==Teyma== | ==Teyma== | ||
