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Sharp Foods: Difference between revisions

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===Fried in a Meat Pot and Added to a Parve Soup===
===Fried in a Meat Pot and Added to a Parve Soup===
#If onions were fried in a meat pot and then added to a soup, that soup should be treated as meat. Even though at this point the onions aren't considered sharp since they finished frying they still have their meat taste from when they were frying in the meat pot. Since they were added to a soup the soup should be considered meat and may not be eaten with milk.<ref>Dvar Charif 3:6. He cites Yad Yehuda 95:16 and Darkei Teshuva 95:39 but writes that this is obvious.</ref>  
#If onions were fried in a meat pot and then added to a soup, that soup should be treated as meat. Even though at this point the onions aren't considered sharp since they finished frying they still have their meat taste from when they were frying in the meat pot. Since they were added to a soup the soup should be considered meat and may not be eaten with milk.<ref>Dvar Charif 3:6. He cites Yad Yehuda 95:16 and Darkei Teshuva 95:39 but writes that this is obvious.</ref>  
#If onions were fried in a meat pot and then added to a soup and then removed from the soup there is a dispute if the soup is considered meat.<ref>Dvar Charif ch. 3 fnt. 28 writes that according to those who hold that the onion which accepted meat taste only gives off a weak taste then there is only nat bar nat in the soup. If milk is then mixed into the soup it is still kosher. Or if the soup is reheated in a dairy pot it is still kosher. However, according to the Magen Avraham 451:31 the onion gives off a strong taste (one noten taam). Then the soup is like it was cooked with meat and if milk is added or cooked in a meat pot is a problem. See Dvar Charif 10:1, Shach 95:3, Pri Chadash 95:5, Minchat Yakov 57:3, Chachmat Adam 48:1, Bear Yitzchak YD 8. </ref>
#If onions were fried in a meat pot and then added to a soup and then removed from the soup there is a dispute if the soup is considered meat.<ref>Dvar Charif ch. 3 fnt. 28 writes that according to those who hold that the onion which accepted meat taste only gives off a weak taste then there is only nat bar nat in the soup. If milk is then mixed into the soup it is still kosher. Or if the soup is reheated in a dairy pot it is still kosher. However, according to the Magen Avraham 451:31 the onion gives off a strong taste (one noten taam). Then the soup is like it was cooked with meat and if milk is added or cooked in a meat pot is a problem. Shach 95:4 holds that parve non-charif food fried in a meat pot is considered a primary taam of meat and not nat bar nat. However, Pri Chadash 95:5 and Minchat Yakov 57:3 disagree. See Chachmat Adam 48:1, Bear Yitzchak YD 8.
* In Dvar Charif ch. 10 fnt. 6 he cites a dispute between the Pri Megadim SD 96:2 and Rabbi Akiva Eiger in his comments to Pri Megadim. Pri Megadim holds that if onions are cut with a meat knife they're considered meat, and it continues to impart meat taste from food to food, even if they're mixed into one food, and then that food into another food. Dvar Charif explains that nat bar nat doesn't apply to foods because they impart their taste completely into the other food. Rabbi Akiva Eiger disagrees and holds that nat bar nat applies as long as one utensil is involved. We consider the onions like the utensil but not having greater taste that the utensil. Since the utensil could only make the other food nat bar nat, the onions are bound by the same limit. </ref>
 
===Fried in a Meat Pot and Mixed with Dairy Spatula===
===Fried in a Meat Pot and Mixed with Dairy Spatula===
#If onions were fried in a meat pot and after they were finished frying they were mixed with an eino ben yomo dairy spatula, the spatula should be kashered.<ref>Dvar Charif siman 12:2:6 writes that whether the onions which got the taste of the meat from the pot can transfer it to the spatula is a discussion if nat bar nat is a problem when it involves 2 kelim. Here the meat taste went (1) from the meat to the pot, (2) then to the onions, and (3) then to the spatula. Even though we view a nat bar nat of meat in the onions as one taam, still in the spatula it is nat bar nat with 2 kelim. Bottom line, he says that although there's many factors to permit nat bar nat with 2 kelim after the fact, in practice we should be strict to kasher. Certainly the eino ben yomo spatula needs kashering like in the Rama 94:5. Also, the parve spatula doesn't really have that chumra, nonetheless it should be kashered lest it be used in the future for a dvar charif which would bring out a taste of nat bar nat with 2 kelim which isn't permitted initially.</ref>
#If onions were fried in a meat pot and after they were finished frying they were mixed with an eino ben yomo dairy spatula, the spatula should be kashered.<ref>Dvar Charif siman 12:2:6 writes that whether the onions which got the taste of the meat from the pot can transfer it to the spatula is a discussion if nat bar nat is a problem when it involves 2 kelim. Here the meat taste went (1) from the meat to the pot, (2) then to the onions, and (3) then to the spatula. Even though we view a nat bar nat of meat in the onions as one taam, still in the spatula it is nat bar nat with 2 kelim. Bottom line, he says that although there's many factors to permit nat bar nat with 2 kelim after the fact, in practice we should be strict to kasher. Certainly the eino ben yomo spatula needs kashering like in the Rama 94:5. Also, the parve spatula doesn't really have that chumra, nonetheless it should be kashered lest it be used in the future for a dvar charif which would bring out a taste of nat bar nat with 2 kelim which isn't permitted initially.</ref>
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