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Seuda Shelishit: Difference between revisions

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==Obligation==
==Obligation==
# There is an obligation to eat three meals on [[Shabbat]], <ref> Shulchan Aruch 291:1, Mishna Berura 291:1, Rambam [[Shabbat]] 30:9, Yalkut Yosef [[Shabbat]] Volume 1 page 399. This is based on the gemara in [[shabbat]] 117b which derives from the verse in Shemot 16:25 which mentions the word "hayom" meaning today three times. The gemara 118b goes through the great rewards for one who eats all three meals on [[shabbat]]. </ref> and if one missed the meal on friday night, he should eat three during the day. <ref> Rama 291:1 </ref>
# There is an obligation to eat three meals on [[Shabbat]], <ref> Shulchan Aruch 291:1, Mishna Brurah 291:1, Rambam [[Shabbat]] 30:9, Yalkut Yosef [[Shabbat]] Volume 1 page 399. This is based on the gemara in [[shabbat]] 117b which derives from the verse in Shemot 16:25 which mentions the word "hayom" meaning today three times. The gemara 118b goes through the great rewards for one who eats all three meals on [[shabbat]]. </ref> and if one missed the meal on friday night, he should eat three during the day. <ref> Rama 291:1 </ref>
# The obligation of eating the third meal of [[Shabbat]] (Seudat Shelishit) is rabbinic. <ref> Mishna Brurah 291:1, Shu"t Maharil 94, Pri Megadim Mishbetzot Zahav 291:1. See Sh"t Tzitz Eliezer 16:13. Pri Megadim Mishbetzot Zahav 291:1 quotes the Levush who says that this obligation is from the torah, even though he himself disagrees. The Sefer Chareidim 14:3 and Maharal quoted by the Taz 472:1 agree with this opinion. </ref>
# The obligation of eating the third meal of [[Shabbat]] (Seudat Shelishit) is rabbinic. <ref> Mishna Brurah 291:1, Shu"t Maharil 94, Pri Megadim Mishbetzot Zahav 291:1. See Sh"t Tzitz Eliezer 16:13. Pri Megadim Mishbetzot Zahav 291:1 quotes the Levush who says that this obligation is from the torah, even though he himself disagrees. The Sefer Chareidim 14:3 and Maharal quoted by the Taz 472:1 agree with this opinion. </ref>
# Women are obligated in Seudat Shelishit. <ref> S"A 291:6, Kitzur S"A 77:16, Yalkut Yosef ([[Shabbat]] vol 1, pg 410). This is based on Rabbeinu Tam in Sefer Hayashar 70:4 which says that women are obligated because they too were part of the miracle of the manna. The Ran on [[Shabbat]] 44a "vikatav" says that it is based on the same source as a woman's obligation in [[Kiddush]] mentioned in [[Berachot]] 20a, that since they are obligated in refraining from melacha, they are also obligated in the mitzvot aseh even if it is only rabbinic. The Meiri [[Shabbat]] 118a seems to agree. The Aruch Hashulchan 291:4 says that many women are unaware of their obligation and a person should try to fix this misconception. </ref>
# Women are obligated in Seudat Shelishit. <ref> S"A 291:6, Kitzur S"A 77:16, Yalkut Yosef ([[Shabbat]] vol 1, pg 410). This is based on Rabbeinu Tam in Sefer Hayashar 70:4 which says that women are obligated because they too were part of the miracle of the manna. The Ran on [[Shabbat]] 44a "vikatav" says that it is based on the same source as a woman's obligation in [[Kiddush]] mentioned in [[Berachot]] 20a, that since they are obligated in refraining from melacha, they are also obligated in the mitzvot aseh even if it is only rabbinic. The Meiri [[Shabbat]] 118a seems to agree. The Aruch Hashulchan 291:4 says that many women are unaware of their obligation and a person should try to fix this misconception. </ref>
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==Timing==
==Timing==
# The earliest time to fulfill Seudat Shelishit is from 6 and a 1/2 hours ([[Shaot Zmaniot]]) into the day. <ref>S"A 291:2, Kitzur S"A 77:16, Yalkut Yosef [[shabbat]] volume 1 page 402. The Behag quoted by the Ran [[Shabbat]] 43b "tanu rabanan" says that it could be eaten at any time of the day, but Tosfot [[Shabbat]] 118a "bimincha" and Rosh [[Shabbat]] 16:5 say that it is specifically at the start of [[Mincha]] gedola. Shulchan Aruch rules like Tosfot and the Rosh. Aruch Hashulchan 291:3 says that you don't fulfill your obligation if you eat earlier than that. </ref> If one began before the time and continued and ate at least a [[Kezayit]] after the time he does fulfill his obligation for seuda shlishit. <ref> Yalkut Yosef [[shabbat]] volume 1 page 402. Aruch Hashulchan 291:6 says also that if one began before mid-day and had in mind to continue until after mid-day and fulfill his obligation then he does fulfill it. </ref>
# The earliest time to fulfill Seudat Shelishit is from 6 and a 1/2 hours ([[Shaot Zmaniot]]) into the day. <ref>S"A 291:2, Kitzur S"A 77:16, Yalkut Yosef [[shabbat]] volume 1 page 402. The Behag quoted by the Ran [[Shabbat]] 43b "tanu rabanan" says that it could be eaten at any time of the day, but Tosfot [[Shabbat]] 118a "bimincha" and Rosh [[Shabbat]] 16:5 say that it is specifically at the start of [[Mincha]] gedola. Shulchan Aruch rules like Tosfot and the Rosh. Aruch Hashulchan 291:3 says that you don't fulfill your obligation if you eat earlier than that. </ref> If one began before the time and continued and ate at least a [[Kezayit]] after the time he does fulfill his obligation for seuda shlishit. <ref> Yalkut Yosef [[shabbat]] volume 1 page 402. Aruch Hashulchan 291:6 says also that if one began before mid-day and had in mind to continue until after mid-day and fulfill his obligation then he does fulfill it. </ref>
# The Minhag is to eat Seudat Shelishit between [[Mincha]] and [[Maariv]]/Arvit. <ref> Rama 291:2. Yalkut Yosef [[shabbat]] volume 1 page 402-403 Rabbeinu Tam quoted by the Tosfot Pesachim 105a "vihani milei", as well as the Rosh [[Shabbat]] 10:13 say that one should eat before saying [[Mincha]] because it is forbidden to drink water between [[Mincha]] and [[Mariv/Arvit|Arvit]] on [[shabbat]] because drinking between [[Mincha]] and [[Mariv/Arvit|Arvit]] could cause harm to the souls that leave after [[shabbat]]. Rambam Hilchot [[Shabbat]] 30:10 writes that it is best to eat it after saying [[Mincha]] and the hagahot maimoniot hilchot [[shabbat]] 30:20 agrees and quotes a different version of rabbeinu tam. The Rama quotes both opinions and says that the minhag is to do like the Rambam. The Magen Avraham 291:5 says this is because of the prohibition to eat before [[davening]] [[mincha]]. Aruch Hashulchan 291:4 also says the minhag is that way also. </ref> If one is unable to have it after [[Mincha]] one should have it before [[mincha]]. <ref> Aruch HaShulchan 291:4. Mishna Berura 291:11 says to make sure to eat before the time of [[Mincha]] ketana arrives. Yalkut Yosef [[Shabbat]] volume 1 page 402 says also that you fulfill your obligation but should try to get somebody to remind you to say [[Mincha]] if you are going to eat before saying it. </ref>
# The Minhag is to eat Seudat Shelishit between [[Mincha]] and [[Maariv]]/Arvit. <ref> Rama 291:2. Yalkut Yosef [[shabbat]] volume 1 page 402-403 Rabbeinu Tam quoted by the Tosfot Pesachim 105a "vihani milei", as well as the Rosh [[Shabbat]] 10:13 say that one should eat before saying [[Mincha]] because it is forbidden to drink water between [[Mincha]] and [[Mariv/Arvit|Arvit]] on [[shabbat]] because drinking between [[Mincha]] and [[Mariv/Arvit|Arvit]] could cause harm to the souls that leave after [[shabbat]]. Rambam Hilchot [[Shabbat]] 30:10 writes that it is best to eat it after saying [[Mincha]] and the hagahot maimoniot hilchot [[shabbat]] 30:20 agrees and quotes a different version of rabbeinu tam. The Rama quotes both opinions and says that the minhag is to do like the Rambam. The Magen Avraham 291:5 says this is because of the prohibition to eat before [[davening]] [[mincha]]. Aruch Hashulchan 291:4 also says the minhag is that way also. </ref> If one is unable to have it after [[Mincha]] one should have it before [[mincha]]. <ref> Aruch HaShulchan 291:4. Mishna Brurah 291:11 says to make sure to eat before the time of [[Mincha]] ketana arrives. Yalkut Yosef [[Shabbat]] volume 1 page 402 says also that you fulfill your obligation but should try to get somebody to remind you to say [[Mincha]] if you are going to eat before saying it. </ref>
# Although it is forbidden to begin eating after sunset until one says [[Havdalah]], <ref> Shulchan Aruch 291:1, Rif Pesachim 21b. </ref> and it is definitely preferable to eat before sunset, <ref> Mishna Berura 299:1, Magen Avraham 299:1. See Shmirat [[Shabbat]] Kihilchita chapter 56 note 15 where he says that the idea that one should eat at least a [[Kezayit]] of bread after [[Tzet HaKochavim]] on friday night quoted in Mishna Brurah 267:5, because there is an opinion that says you cannot fulfill a seudat [[shabbat]] during tosefet [[shabbat]], should carry over to seudat shlishit, and therefore to satisfy this opinion one should be stringent and eat prior to sunset. </ref> some poskim give extra time to begin the meal if one hasn't yet eaten seuda shlishit. <ref> Shaar Hatziyun 299:2 gives two reasons for this. First, he says one can rely on the opinion of the Taz 299:1 who thinks that the Rosh Pesachim 12:10 allows eating until nightfall since there is a potential fulfillment of a mitzva. Second, the potential fulfillment of the mitzvah of [[seudah]] shlishit should override the potential prohibition of eating during bein hashimashot. Menuchat Ahava (v. 1, p. 184) agrees.
# Although it is forbidden to begin eating after sunset until one says [[Havdalah]], <ref> Shulchan Aruch 291:1, Rif Pesachim 21b. </ref> and it is definitely preferable to eat before sunset, <ref> Mishna Brurah 299:1, Magen Avraham 299:1. See Shmirat [[Shabbat]] Kihilchita chapter 56 note 15 where he says that the idea that one should eat at least a [[Kezayit]] of bread after [[Tzet HaKochavim]] on friday night quoted in Mishna Brurah 267:5, because there is an opinion that says you cannot fulfill a seudat [[shabbat]] during tosefet [[shabbat]], should carry over to seudat shlishit, and therefore to satisfy this opinion one should be stringent and eat prior to sunset. </ref> some poskim give extra time to begin the meal if one hasn't yet eaten seuda shlishit. <ref> Shaar Hatziyun 299:2 gives two reasons for this. First, he says one can rely on the opinion of the Taz 299:1 who thinks that the Rosh Pesachim 12:10 allows eating until nightfall since there is a potential fulfillment of a mitzva. Second, the potential fulfillment of the mitzvah of [[seudah]] shlishit should override the potential prohibition of eating during bein hashimashot. Menuchat Ahava (v. 1, p. 184) agrees.
*Mishna Berura 299:1 says that if one hasn't yet eaten the meal or is really starving then one can still eat until a half hour before tzet hakovachim. R. Avraham Chaim Naeh in Ketzot HaShulchan (chapter 94 note 6), notes that Mishna Brurah's ruling that one may eat until a half hour prior to nightfall is following the opinion of Rabbeinu Tam that nightfall is seventy-two minutes after sundown. However, according to the Vilna Gaon, nightfall can be within one half hour of sunset. If so, one who follows the opinion of the Vilna Gaon would be prohibited from starting to eat one half hour before nightfall (of the Vilna Gaon) which is prior to sunset. Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach quoted in Shemirat [[Shabbat]] Kehilchata chapter 56 note 17 says that since even those who follow the opinion of the Vilna Gaon with regards to when to end [[shabbat]] will never actually recite [[Havdalah]] within one-half hour of sunset, they may start eating up until sundown.  
*Mishna Brurah 299:1 says that if one hasn't yet eaten the meal or is really starving then one can still eat until a half hour before tzet hakovachim. R. Avraham Chaim Naeh in Ketzot HaShulchan (chapter 94 note 6), notes that Mishna Brurah's ruling that one may eat until a half hour prior to nightfall is following the opinion of Rabbeinu Tam that nightfall is seventy-two minutes after sundown. However, according to the Vilna Gaon, nightfall can be within one half hour of sunset. If so, one who follows the opinion of the Vilna Gaon would be prohibited from starting to eat one half hour before nightfall (of the Vilna Gaon) which is prior to sunset. Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach quoted in Shemirat [[Shabbat]] Kehilchata chapter 56 note 17 says that since even those who follow the opinion of the Vilna Gaon with regards to when to end [[shabbat]] will never actually recite [[Havdalah]] within one-half hour of sunset, they may start eating up until sundown.  
*Rav Moshe Feinstein quoted in The Radiance of [[Shabbos]] Chapter 15 note 36 can start up until nine minutes after sunset. Pninei Halacha [[Shabbat]] vol. 1 page 130 quotes Rav Moshe Feinstein Iggerot Moshe 4:69:6 that one has until thirteen minutes and a half minutes after sunset.  
*Rav Moshe Feinstein quoted in The Radiance of [[Shabbos]] Chapter 15 note 36 can start up until nine minutes after sunset. Pninei Halacha [[Shabbat]] vol. 1 page 130 quotes Rav Moshe Feinstein Iggerot Moshe 4:69:6 that one has until thirteen minutes and a half minutes after sunset.  
*Yalkut Yosef [[shabbat]] 1 page 414 allows one to start until thirteen and a half minutes after sunset. </ref>
*Yalkut Yosef [[shabbat]] 1 page 414 allows one to start until thirteen and a half minutes after sunset. </ref>
# If one began eating before sunset he may continue after. <ref> Shulchan Aruch 299:1, Aruch Hashulchan 299:3. Mishna Berura 291:2 says that having said the beracha is enough of a start to your meal to allow one to continue afterwards. He also quotes an opinion that this only applies during bein hashemashot but after [[Tzet HaKochavim]] one would not be allowed to continue. Rama says that the minhag is not so, rather one can continue even after [[Tzet HaKochavim]], and the aruch hashulchan 299:4 says that is the minhag. </ref> However, this doesn't apply if one was only drinking not as part of a meal <ref> Shulchan Aruch 299:1 </ref> or to eating only [[mezonot]] or fruit, so one must stop if that is all that he is having. <ref> Aruch Hashulchan 299:5 </ref>
# If one began eating before sunset he may continue after. <ref> Shulchan Aruch 299:1, Aruch Hashulchan 299:3. Mishna Brurah 291:2 says that having said the beracha is enough of a start to your meal to allow one to continue afterwards. He also quotes an opinion that this only applies during bein hashemashot but after [[Tzet HaKochavim]] one would not be allowed to continue. Rama says that the minhag is not so, rather one can continue even after [[Tzet HaKochavim]], and the aruch hashulchan 299:4 says that is the minhag. </ref> However, this doesn't apply if one was only drinking not as part of a meal <ref> Shulchan Aruch 299:1 </ref> or to eating only [[mezonot]] or fruit, so one must stop if that is all that he is having. <ref> Aruch Hashulchan 299:5 </ref>


==Birkat Hamazon==
==Birkat Hamazon==
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#If he forgot to say it and remembered:
#If he forgot to say it and remembered:
## after finishing boneh yerushalayim but before the next beracha he should insert there a beracha instead of ritze "Baruch Ata Hashem Elokenu Melech Ha'olam Asher Natan Shabbatot Le'menucha Le'amo Yisrael Be'ahava Le'ot U'berit Baruch Ata Hashem Mekadesh Ha'[[Shabbat]]."
## after finishing boneh yerushalayim but before the next beracha he should insert there a beracha instead of ritze "Baruch Ata Hashem Elokenu Melech Ha'olam Asher Natan Shabbatot Le'menucha Le'amo Yisrael Be'ahava Le'ot U'berit Baruch Ata Hashem Mekadesh Ha'[[Shabbat]]."
## after beginning the fourth beracha he should just continue and not repeat. <ref> This is because there are opinions that one is not obligated to eat bread at seudat shlishit and Mishna Berura 188:26 says that if the meal is not obligatory you don't return for missing ritzei. Mishna Berura 291:6 based on Shaare Teshuva 291:1, Yalkut Yosef [[shabbat]] 1 page 411. For the rules for the first two meals see [http://www.dailyhalacha.com/m/halacha.aspx?id=1198 Rabbi Mansour on Dailyhalacha.com]. </ref>  
## after beginning the fourth beracha he should just continue and not repeat. <ref> This is because there are opinions that one is not obligated to eat bread at seudat shlishit and Mishna Brurah 188:26 says that if the meal is not obligatory you don't return for missing ritzei. Mishna Brurah 291:6 based on Shaare Teshuva 291:1, Yalkut Yosef [[shabbat]] 1 page 411. For the rules for the first two meals see [http://www.dailyhalacha.com/m/halacha.aspx?id=1198 Rabbi Mansour on Dailyhalacha.com]. </ref>  
## Women should only say the beracha without Hashem's name or just continue onward even if she remembered before starting the fourth beracha. <ref> Yalkut Yosef [[shabbat]] 1 page 412. </ref>
## Women should only say the beracha without Hashem's name or just continue onward even if she remembered before starting the fourth beracha. <ref> Yalkut Yosef [[shabbat]] 1 page 412. </ref>
#When [[rosh chodesh]] or the first day of [[chanuka]] falls out on sunday even if the seuda continued until after dark one doesn't say [[Yaaleh VeYavo]]. <ref> Yalkut Yosef [[shabbat]] 1 page 412. </ref>
#When [[rosh chodesh]] or the first day of [[chanuka]] falls out on sunday even if the seuda continued until after dark one doesn't say [[Yaaleh VeYavo]]. <ref> Yalkut Yosef [[shabbat]] 1 page 412. </ref>
==Kiddush==
==Kiddush==
# There is no obligation to do [[Kiddush]] at Suedat Shelishit, but it is nice to make a beracha on wine during the meal. <ref> Yalkut Yosef [[shabbat]] volume 1 page 405. Shulchan Aruch 291:4 says you do not need to say [[Kiddush]] for seudat shlishit, and Mishna Berura 291:21 adds that it is nice to make the beracha on wine because it enhances the meal. Rambam [[Shabbat]] 30:9 says that we establish the third meal with lechem mishne and wine. The Tur 291 says that this sounds like we should say [[Kiddush]] on seudat shlishit as well, but says that the Rosh disagrees because just like there is only one [[Kiddush]] at night, so too in the day. The Beit Yosef 291 says since most rishonim hold that we don't say [[Kiddush]], it is unnecessary, but you don't lose anything if you do. Rav Avigdor Neventzal in the Biyitzchak Yikare edition of the Mishna Berura 291:4 footnote “ein tzarich” says that Rav Shlomo Zalman did drink wine during the meal, and adds that if one person says the beracha out loud, everybody fulfills the rambam that one should establish his meal on wine. </ref>
# There is no obligation to do [[Kiddush]] at Suedat Shelishit, but it is nice to make a beracha on wine during the meal. <ref> Yalkut Yosef [[shabbat]] volume 1 page 405. Shulchan Aruch 291:4 says you do not need to say [[Kiddush]] for seudat shlishit, and Mishna Brurah 291:21 adds that it is nice to make the beracha on wine because it enhances the meal. Rambam [[Shabbat]] 30:9 says that we establish the third meal with lechem mishne and wine. The Tur 291 says that this sounds like we should say [[Kiddush]] on seudat shlishit as well, but says that the Rosh disagrees because just like there is only one [[Kiddush]] at night, so too in the day. The Beit Yosef 291 says since most rishonim hold that we don't say [[Kiddush]], it is unnecessary, but you don't lose anything if you do. Rav Avigdor Neventzal in the Biyitzchak Yikare edition of the Mishna Brurah 291:4 footnote “ein tzarich” says that Rav Shlomo Zalman did drink wine during the meal, and adds that if one person says the beracha out loud, everybody fulfills the rambam that one should establish his meal on wine. </ref>


==Sources==
==Sources==
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