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Seuda Shelishit: Difference between revisions

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==Timing==
==Timing==
# The earliest time to fulfill Seudat Shelishit is from 6 and a 1/2 hours ([[Shaot Zmaniot]]) into the day. <ref>Shulchan Aruch 291:2, Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 77:16, Yalkut Yosef [[shabbat]] volume 1 page 402. The Behag quoted by the Ran [[Shabbat]] 43b "tanu rabanan" says that it could be eaten at any time of the day, but Tosfot [[Shabbat]] 118a "bimincha" and Rosh [[Shabbat]] 16:5 say that it is specifically at the start of [[Mincha]] gedola. Shulchan Aruch rules like Tosfot and the Rosh. Aruch Hashulchan 291:3 says that you don't fulfill your obligation if you eat earlier than that. </ref> If one began before the time and continued and ate at least a [[Kezayit]] after the time he does fulfill his obligation for seuda shlishit. <ref> Yalkut Yosef [[shabbat]] volume 1 page 402. Aruch Hashulchan 291:6 says also that if one began before mid-day and had in mind to continue until after mid-day and fulfill his obligation then he does fulfill it. </ref>
# The earliest time to fulfill Seudat Shelishit is from 6 and a 1/2 hours ([[Shaot Zmaniot]]) into the day. <ref>Shulchan Aruch 291:2, Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 77:16, Yalkut Yosef [[shabbat]] volume 1 page 402. The Behag quoted by the Ran [[Shabbat]] 43b "tanu rabanan" says that it could be eaten at any time of the day, but Tosfot [[Shabbat]] 118a "bimincha" and Rosh [[Shabbat]] 16:5 say that it is specifically at the start of [[Mincha]] gedola. Rambam Shabbat 30:9, Hagahot Maimoniyot 30:8, and Sh"t Min Hashamayim 14 write that seudat shelishit is specifically in the afternoon. Shibolei Haleket 93 quotes some say it must be after 4 hours into the day but he disagrees and says it could be anytime. Shulchan Aruch rules like Tosfot and the Rosh. Aruch Hashulchan 291:3 says that you don't fulfill your obligation if you eat earlier than that. </ref> If one began before the time and continued and ate at least a [[Kezayit]] after the time he does fulfill his obligation for seuda shlishit. <ref> Yalkut Yosef [[shabbat]] volume 1 page 402. Aruch Hashulchan 291:6 says also that if one began before mid-day and had in mind to continue until after mid-day and fulfill his obligation then he does fulfill it. </ref>
# The Minhag is to eat Seudat Shelishit between [[Mincha]] and [[Maariv]]/Arvit. <ref> Rama 291:2. Yalkut Yosef [[shabbat]] volume 1 page 402-403 Rabbeinu Tam quoted by the Tosfot Pesachim 105a "vihani milei", as well as the Rosh [[Shabbat]] 10:13 say that one should eat before saying [[Mincha]] because it is forbidden to drink water between [[Mincha]] and [[Mariv/Arvit|Arvit]] on [[shabbat]] because drinking between [[Mincha]] and [[Mariv/Arvit|Arvit]] could cause harm to the souls that leave after [[shabbat]]. Rambam Hilchot [[Shabbat]] 30:10 writes that it is best to eat it after saying [[Mincha]] and the hagahot maimoniot hilchot [[shabbat]] 30:20 agrees and quotes a different version of rabbeinu tam. The Rama quotes both opinions and says that the minhag is to do like the Rambam. The Magen Avraham 291:5 says this is because of the prohibition to eat before [[davening]] [[mincha]]. Aruch Hashulchan 291:4 also says the minhag is that way also. </ref> If one is unable to have it after [[Mincha]] one should have it before [[mincha]]. <ref> Aruch HaShulchan 291:4. Mishna Brurah 291:11 says to make sure to eat before the time of [[Mincha]] ketana arrives. Yalkut Yosef [[Shabbat]] volume 1 page 402 says also that you fulfill your obligation but should try to get somebody to remind you to say [[Mincha]] if you are going to eat before saying it. </ref>
# The Minhag is to eat Seudat Shelishit between [[Mincha]] and [[Maariv]]/Arvit. <ref> Rama 291:2. Yalkut Yosef [[shabbat]] volume 1 page 402-403 Rabbeinu Tam quoted by the Tosfot Pesachim 105a "vihani milei", as well as the Rosh [[Shabbat]] 10:13 say that one should eat before saying [[Mincha]] because it is forbidden to drink water between [[Mincha]] and [[Mariv/Arvit|Arvit]] on [[shabbat]] because drinking between [[Mincha]] and [[Mariv/Arvit|Arvit]] could cause harm to the souls that leave after [[shabbat]]. Rambam Hilchot [[Shabbat]] 30:10 writes that it is best to eat it after saying [[Mincha]] and the hagahot maimoniot hilchot [[shabbat]] 30:20 agrees and quotes a different version of rabbeinu tam. The Rama quotes both opinions and says that the minhag is to do like the Rambam. The Magen Avraham 291:5 says this is because of the prohibition to eat before [[davening]] [[mincha]]. Aruch Hashulchan 291:4 also says the minhag is that way also. </ref> If one is unable to have it after [[Mincha]] one should have it before [[mincha]]. <ref> Aruch HaShulchan 291:4. Mishna Brurah 291:11 says to make sure to eat before the time of [[Mincha]] ketana arrives. Yalkut Yosef [[Shabbat]] volume 1 page 402 says also that you fulfill your obligation but should try to get somebody to remind you to say [[Mincha]] if you are going to eat before saying it. </ref>
# Although it is forbidden to begin eating after sunset until one says [[Havdalah]], <ref> Shulchan Aruch 299:1, Rif Pesachim 21b. </ref> and it is definitely preferable to eat before sunset, <ref> Mishna Brurah 299:1, Magen Avraham 299:1. See Shmirat [[Shabbat]] Kihilchita chapter 56 note 15 where he says that the idea that one should eat at least a [[Kezayit]] of bread after [[Tzet HaKochavim]] on friday night quoted in Mishna Brurah 267:5, because there is an opinion that says you cannot fulfill a seudat [[shabbat]] during tosefet [[shabbat]], should carry over to seudat shlishit, and therefore to satisfy this opinion one should be stringent and eat prior to sunset. </ref> some poskim give extra time to begin the meal if one hasn't yet eaten seuda shlishit. <ref> Shaar Hatziyun 299:2 gives two reasons for this. First, he says one can rely on the opinion of the Taz 299:1 who thinks that the Rosh Pesachim 12:10 allows eating until nightfall since there is a potential fulfillment of a mitzva. Second, the potential fulfillment of the mitzvah of [[seudah]] shlishit should override the potential prohibition of eating during bein hashimashot. Menuchat Ahava (v. 1, p. 184) agrees.
# Although it is forbidden to begin eating after sunset until one says [[Havdalah]], <ref> Shulchan Aruch 299:1, Rif Pesachim 21b. </ref> and it is definitely preferable to eat before sunset, <ref> Mishna Brurah 299:1, Magen Avraham 299:1. See Shmirat [[Shabbat]] Kihilchita chapter 56 note 15 where he says that the idea that one should eat at least a [[Kezayit]] of bread after [[Tzet HaKochavim]] on friday night quoted in Mishna Brurah 267:5, because there is an opinion that says you cannot fulfill a seudat [[shabbat]] during tosefet [[shabbat]], should carry over to seudat shlishit, and therefore to satisfy this opinion one should be stringent and eat prior to sunset. </ref> some poskim give extra time to begin the meal if one hasn't yet eaten seuda shlishit. <ref> Shaar Hatziyun 299:2 gives two reasons for this. First, he says one can rely on the opinion of the Taz 299:1 who thinks that the Rosh Pesachim 12:10 allows eating until nightfall since there is a potential fulfillment of a mitzva. Second, the potential fulfillment of the mitzvah of [[seudah]] shlishit should override the potential prohibition of eating during bein hashimashot. Menuchat Ahava (v. 1, p. 184) agrees.
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*Yalkut Yosef [[shabbat]] 1 page 414 allows one to start until thirteen and a half minutes after sunset. </ref>
*Yalkut Yosef [[shabbat]] 1 page 414 allows one to start until thirteen and a half minutes after sunset. </ref>
# If one began eating before sunset he may continue after. <ref> Shulchan Aruch 299:1, Aruch Hashulchan 299:3. Mishna Brurah 291:2 says that having said the beracha is enough of a start to your meal to allow one to continue afterwards. He also quotes an opinion that this only applies during bein hashemashot but after [[Tzet HaKochavim]] one would not be allowed to continue. Rama says that the minhag is not so, rather one can continue even after [[Tzet HaKochavim]], and the aruch hashulchan 299:4 says that is the minhag. </ref> However, this doesn't apply if one was only drinking not as part of a meal <ref> Shulchan Aruch 299:1 </ref> or to eating only [[mezonot]] or fruit, so one must stop if that is all that he is having. <ref> Aruch Hashulchan 299:5 </ref>
# If one began eating before sunset he may continue after. <ref> Shulchan Aruch 299:1, Aruch Hashulchan 299:3. Mishna Brurah 291:2 says that having said the beracha is enough of a start to your meal to allow one to continue afterwards. He also quotes an opinion that this only applies during bein hashemashot but after [[Tzet HaKochavim]] one would not be allowed to continue. Rama says that the minhag is not so, rather one can continue even after [[Tzet HaKochavim]], and the aruch hashulchan 299:4 says that is the minhag. </ref> However, this doesn't apply if one was only drinking not as part of a meal <ref> Shulchan Aruch 299:1 </ref> or to eating only [[mezonot]] or fruit, so one must stop if that is all that he is having. <ref> Aruch Hashulchan 299:5 </ref>


==Birkat Hamazon==
==Birkat Hamazon==