Pat Haba Bikisnin: Difference between revisions

# If one eats Pah Habah Bekisnin as a snack one should make Mezonot for Bracha Rishona and Al HaMichya for Bracha Achrona and if one eats Pas HaBah BeKisnin as a meal one should make HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon. <ref>S"A 168:8 </ref> But what is considered a meal for this halacha?  

##According to Ashkenazim, if one eats less than 8 kezaytim one should certainly make a Mezonot. If one eats the amount of a regular meal one should make HaMotzei. [For a regular person if one eats 280 grams of regular cake one certainly is having the amount of a regular meal and could make HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon.] Preferably, one shouldn't have in between 8 Kezayitim and the amount of a regular meal. After the fact (if one ate between 8 Kezayitim and a definite meal), if one is not full make Al HaMichya and if one is full make Birkat HaMazon, yet, in such a case it’s preferable to hear Birkat HaMazon (from someone who’s obligated to make Birkat HaMazon) or to eat bread (making HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon). [For background see footnote.]<ref>See next note </ref>

##According to Sephardim, if one ate less than 6 Kezaytim one should make a Mezonot. If one eats more than 8 Kezayitim one should make HaMotzei. Preferably one shoudln't eat between 6 and 8 Kezaytim and if one did then one should just make Al HaMichya. [For background see footnote.]<ref>

* Sephardim: Halacha Brurah 168:16 (explained in Otzorot Yosef Siman 9) writes that Sephardim hold like the Chida that if one ate 8 Kezayitim one should make HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon, and if one ate less than that one should make Mezonot and Al HaMichya but it's preferable that one shouldn't eat in between 6 and 8 Kezayitim. </ref>

# According to Sephardim even if Pas Haba BeKisnin is eaten with other foods those other foods are not taken into consideration when considering the amount of a meal. <ref>Kaf HaChaim 168:47 rules against the Magan Avraham 168:13 and says that S”A implies that one must be the amount of a meal from the Pat itself. </ref> However, according to Ashkenazim the following laws apply:

# One shouldn’t eat a kezayit of Pas HaBah Bekisnin together with other foods (any food even if it’s not Melaftim Et HaPat) if altogether there’s a shuir of 8 kezayitim whether one has in mind to establish a meal or not. <ref> Mishna Brurah 168:24, Vezot HaBracha (Chapter 4, pg 32-3). Vezot HaBracha (pg 33) adds that there’s what to rely on to eat less than 8 kezayitim of Pas HaBah Bekisnin together with food that’s not Melafet HaPat (rice, couscous, noodles, fruit, or sweets but not meat, fish, cheese, or vegetables) and make a Mezonot and Al HaMichya. </ref>

# The only way to make a HaMotzei without a doubt is to:1)eat bread, 2)have 20 kezaytim of Pas HaBah Bekisnin alone, or 3)have 8 kezaytim of Pas HaBah Bekisnin together with foods that accompany bread (such as meat, fish, cheese, vegetables). <Ref> Vezot HaBracha (Chapter 4, pg 31 and pg 33 note 11) </ref>

# All food that’s eaten during a meal is included as long as one kezayit of Pas HaBah Bekisnin is eaten within Kedi Achilat Pras (4 minutes). <ref> The Kaf HaChaim and Sh”t Korban Eshe write that one needs to have all of the 4 Kebayitzim in one Kedi Achilat Pras. However, Yalkut Yosef (Birkat HaMazon pg 130) writes that the strict halacha only requires that one have one Kezayit in a Kedi Achilat Pras.  Vezot HaBracha (Chapter 4, pg 27) agrees with Yalkut Yosef. </ref>

# According to Ashkenazim if one makes a meal out of Pas HaBah BeKisnin one should wash with a bracha (of Al Netilat Yadayim) and make HaMotzei. However, Sephardim hold that one should wash without a bracha but one would have what to rely on to wash with a bracha. <ref>Mishna Brurah 158:8, Yalkut Yosef (Kitzur S”A 168:8) </ref>

# If one started the meal thinking that one was going to have 8 Kezayitim and then changed his mind and couldn’t finish all 8 Kezayitim, one may finish eating based on his original HaMotzei and concludes with a Al HaMichya. <ref> Sh”t Igrot Moshe O”C 2:54, Yalkut Yosef (Birkat HaMazon pg 137). </ref>

# If one made a Mezonot thinking that one was only going to have a few Kezayitim and then changed his mind to end up having 8 Kezayitim, if one plans on having another 8 Kezayitim one should stop and wash with a bracha and make HaMotzei.  

# If one made Mezonot planning to have a few Kezyitim, and then changes to have another few Kezayitim and in total all he ate will add up to 8 Kezayitim one shouldn’t make any new bracha upon changing one’s mind, however, if one started thinking that one would not have more than a certain amount and now clearly changes his mind about that, one should make a new Mezonot. Nonetheless, one concludes with Birkat HaMazon. <ref> Mishan Brurah 168:25 writes that if one changed one’s mind one doesn’t make a new HaMotzei if one doesn’t plan on eating more than 8 Kezayitim. Mishna Brurah (Shaar Tzion 168:21) writes that one shouldn’t make a new Mezonot unless one clearly changed one’s mind such as if when he started he thought that he will not eat more than a certain amount, however, if one didn’t clearly retract his opinion then one doesn’t make a new Mezonot. </ref>

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#There’s no difference between Shabbat and the rest of the week regarding the status of the Pat habah BeKisnin. <ref> Kaf HaChaim 168:48. </ref>