Difference between revisions of "Pat Haba Bikisnin"

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Pas Haba BeKisnin is a Talmudic term used to describe a certain type of snack food and in general this includes most of our cakes and cookies. The Bracha for these types of foods depends on whether it's eaten as a snack or a meal. For the precise definitions and laws see further. For background see footnotes.
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[[Image:Cakes_and_Cookies.jpg | 200px | right]]
 
==The Bracha of Pas Haba Bekisnin==
 
==The Bracha of Pas Haba Bekisnin==
 
# If one eats Pah Habah Bekisnin as a snack one should make Mezonot for Bracha Rishona and Al HaMichya for Bracha Achrona and if one eats Pas HaBah BeKisnin as a meal one should make HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon. But what is considered a meal for this halacha?  
 
# If one eats Pah Habah Bekisnin as a snack one should make Mezonot for Bracha Rishona and Al HaMichya for Bracha Achrona and if one eats Pas HaBah BeKisnin as a meal one should make HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon. But what is considered a meal for this halacha?  
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* Ashkenazim: The Mishna Brurah 168:24 rules that the halacha follows the opinion that a meal is considered by a regular meal people eat but adds that it's proper to be strict for those who are strict to require 4 KeBaytzim (meaning, that preferably one should only eat less than 8 Kezayitim or more than the amount of a regular meal, Vezot HaBracha pg 29). VeZot HaBracha (chap 4, pg 31) writes that according to his calculation for a regular person for regular cake if one eats less than 230 grams that is considered a snack, if one eat more than 280 grams that is certainly a meal. He continues that if one did eat in between 8 Kezayitim and a certain meal, if one is not full make Al HaMichya and if one is full make Birkat HaMazon, yet, in such a case it’s preferable to hear Birkat HaMazon (from someone who’s obligated to make Birkat HaMazon) or to eat bread (making HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon).  
 
* Ashkenazim: The Mishna Brurah 168:24 rules that the halacha follows the opinion that a meal is considered by a regular meal people eat but adds that it's proper to be strict for those who are strict to require 4 KeBaytzim (meaning, that preferably one should only eat less than 8 Kezayitim or more than the amount of a regular meal, Vezot HaBracha pg 29). VeZot HaBracha (chap 4, pg 31) writes that according to his calculation for a regular person for regular cake if one eats less than 230 grams that is considered a snack, if one eat more than 280 grams that is certainly a meal. He continues that if one did eat in between 8 Kezayitim and a certain meal, if one is not full make Al HaMichya and if one is full make Birkat HaMazon, yet, in such a case it’s preferable to hear Birkat HaMazon (from someone who’s obligated to make Birkat HaMazon) or to eat bread (making HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon).  
 
* Sephardim: Halacha Brurah 168:16 (explained in Otzorot Yosef Siman 9) writes that Sephardim hold like the Chida that if one ate 8 Kezayitim one should make HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon, and if one ate less than that one should make Mezonot and Al HaMichya but it's preferable that one shouldn't eat in between 6 and 8 Kezayitim. </ref>
 
* Sephardim: Halacha Brurah 168:16 (explained in Otzorot Yosef Siman 9) writes that Sephardim hold like the Chida that if one ate 8 Kezayitim one should make HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon, and if one ate less than that one should make Mezonot and Al HaMichya but it's preferable that one shouldn't eat in between 6 and 8 Kezayitim. </ref>
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<br>For more details about what is considered a meal for Pas Habah BeKisnin and cases where one changes one's mind in middle of the meal, see [[Making a meal on Mezonot]].
  
==Three definitions of Pas Haba Bikisnin==
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==What is Pas Haba Bikisnin?==
 
The S"A (168:7) rules that there are three definitions of Pas Haba Bikisnin. <ref>'''What is Pas HaBah Bekisnin?'''
 
The S"A (168:7) rules that there are three definitions of Pas Haba Bikisnin. <ref>'''What is Pas HaBah Bekisnin?'''
 
* Rashi (Brachot 42b D”H Pas) explains that Pas HaBah Bekisnin is a cake which was made from a dough that was kneaded with spices. Rabbenu Yonah (29a D”H Shein) quotes Rabbenu Chananel that it’s a bread with a pocket filled with nuts, honey, or other sweets. Lastly, the Aruch (D”H Kesen, quoted by Bet Yosef 168:8) quotes Rav Hai Goan that it’s a hard cracker-like bread. The S”A 168:8 rules all three opinions.
 
* Rashi (Brachot 42b D”H Pas) explains that Pas HaBah Bekisnin is a cake which was made from a dough that was kneaded with spices. Rabbenu Yonah (29a D”H Shein) quotes Rabbenu Chananel that it’s a bread with a pocket filled with nuts, honey, or other sweets. Lastly, the Aruch (D”H Kesen, quoted by Bet Yosef 168:8) quotes Rav Hai Goan that it’s a hard cracker-like bread. The S”A 168:8 rules all three opinions.
 
</ref>
 
</ref>
One therefore makes a Boreh Mineh Mezonot when eating an item that falls into one of the three categories:
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One therefore makes a Mezonot when eating an item that falls into one of the three categories:
 
# The dough itself is sweetened with fruit juice, oil, sugar, honey, margarine, etc.  
 
# The dough itself is sweetened with fruit juice, oil, sugar, honey, margarine, etc.  
# The bread is filled with a sweet filler such as: chocolate, nuts, fruit, etc. (i.e. Bourekas)
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# The bread is filled with a sweet filler such as: chocolate, nuts, fruit, etc.
# The bread is very hard (and cracks when bent)
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# The bread is very hard  
 
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<br>For examples of these categories see further.
==Explanation of the first definition==
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===First category===
 
# According to Ashkenzim, if there’s a majority (51%) of sweeteners such as fruit juice, oil, egg, margarine, sugar, honey, or the like in comparison to the amount of water added to the flour, then the Bracha is mezonot. <Ref> Rama 168:7, Mishna Brurah 168:33 writes that such is the minhag of Ashkenazim. </ref>However, water mixed into the sweeteners such as diluted fruited juice or margarine (usually 15% water) isn’t included in the calculations of sweeteners to water. <Ref>VeZot HaBracha (pg 17) in name of Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach and Sh”t Shevet HaLevi 9:44 </ref>
 
# According to Ashkenzim, if there’s a majority (51%) of sweeteners such as fruit juice, oil, egg, margarine, sugar, honey, or the like in comparison to the amount of water added to the flour, then the Bracha is mezonot. <Ref> Rama 168:7, Mishna Brurah 168:33 writes that such is the minhag of Ashkenazim. </ref>However, water mixed into the sweeteners such as diluted fruited juice or margarine (usually 15% water) isn’t included in the calculations of sweeteners to water. <Ref>VeZot HaBracha (pg 17) in name of Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach and Sh”t Shevet HaLevi 9:44 </ref>
 
# According to Sephardim, if the taste of the sweeteners is recognizable in the dough, then the Bracha is mezonot. <Ref>S”A 168:7, Yalkut Yosef (Brachot pg 129, Kitzur S”A 168:7) </ref>
 
# According to Sephardim, if the taste of the sweeteners is recognizable in the dough, then the Bracha is mezonot. <Ref>S”A 168:7, Yalkut Yosef (Brachot pg 129, Kitzur S”A 168:7) </ref>
  
==Explanation of the second definition==
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===Second category===
 
# Dough which is filled with sweeteners such as nuts, chocolate, or the like and is cooked together with the dough, and the taste is recognizable, the bracha is Mezonot. <ref>S"A 168:7, Mishna Brurah 168:33, Vezot HaBracha (pg 19, chapter 3) </ref>
 
# Dough which is filled with sweeteners such as nuts, chocolate, or the like and is cooked together with the dough, and the taste is recognizable, the bracha is Mezonot. <ref>S"A 168:7, Mishna Brurah 168:33, Vezot HaBracha (pg 19, chapter 3) </ref>
  
==Explanation of the third definition==
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===Third category===
 
# If the dough is cooked into a food that's hard and crumbles the bracha is Mezonot. <ref> S"A 168:7. Vezot HaBracha (pg 19, chapter 3) points out that the Mishna Brurah (168:35) writes that it must be that it's usual to be eaten as a snack. </ref>
 
# If the dough is cooked into a food that's hard and crumbles the bracha is Mezonot. <ref> S"A 168:7. Vezot HaBracha (pg 19, chapter 3) points out that the Mishna Brurah (168:35) writes that it must be that it's usual to be eaten as a snack. </ref>
  
==Examples==
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===More examples===
 
# The following foods are called Pas HaBah BeKisnin and if one eats a Shuir Seuda one must make a HaMotzei: Berakas, Hotdog in pastry, cake, cookies, pretzels, crackers, and cereals made from the 5 grains. <Ref> Vezot HaBracha (pg 26, chapter 3) </ref>
 
# The following foods are called Pas HaBah BeKisnin and if one eats a Shuir Seuda one must make a HaMotzei: Berakas, Hotdog in pastry, cake, cookies, pretzels, crackers, and cereals made from the 5 grains. <Ref> Vezot HaBracha (pg 26, chapter 3) </ref>
 
# The following foods are called Tavshil Mezonot and even if one eats a Shuir Seuda one makes a Mezonot: Farina, oatmeal, noodles, rice, soup nuts, farfel, couscous, blintzes, kugel*, and wafers*. <Ref> Vezot HaBracha (Chapter 4, pg 26). There he mentions that majority of poskim hold that kugel is Tavshil Mezonot and similarly concerning wafers there’s some doubt in the poskim even though the primary halacha is that it’s Tavshil Mezonot. </ref>
 
# The following foods are called Tavshil Mezonot and even if one eats a Shuir Seuda one makes a Mezonot: Farina, oatmeal, noodles, rice, soup nuts, farfel, couscous, blintzes, kugel*, and wafers*. <Ref> Vezot HaBracha (Chapter 4, pg 26). There he mentions that majority of poskim hold that kugel is Tavshil Mezonot and similarly concerning wafers there’s some doubt in the poskim even though the primary halacha is that it’s Tavshil Mezonot. </ref>
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====Egg Matzah====
 
# Egg Matzah which was kneaded with mostly fruit juice or eggs (as opposed to water) is considered Pas Haba BiKisnin. <ref> Veten Bracha (Halachos of Brochos by Rabbi Bodner pg 501, chapter 27) </ref>
 
# Egg Matzah which was kneaded with mostly fruit juice or eggs (as opposed to water) is considered Pas Haba BiKisnin. <ref> Veten Bracha (Halachos of Brochos by Rabbi Bodner pg 501, chapter 27) </ref>
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====Pancakes====
 
# If the pancakes were made with very little oil (just enough to prevent it from getting burned) then it is considered Pas Haba Bikisnin. If the pancakes were made with a significant amount of oil, there's a doubt whether it's considered Pas Haba Bekisnin or not and so if one intends to eat a the amount of a normal meal (see [[Making a meal on Mezonot]]) one should eat it in a meal. If the pancakes were deep fried then the bracha is Mezonot even if the amount of a normal meal is consumed. <ref> Veten Bracha (Halachos of Brochos by Rabbi Bodner pg 493-4, chapter 27) </ref>
 
# If the pancakes were made with very little oil (just enough to prevent it from getting burned) then it is considered Pas Haba Bikisnin. If the pancakes were made with a significant amount of oil, there's a doubt whether it's considered Pas Haba Bekisnin or not and so if one intends to eat a the amount of a normal meal (see [[Making a meal on Mezonot]]) one should eat it in a meal. If the pancakes were deep fried then the bracha is Mezonot even if the amount of a normal meal is consumed. <ref> Veten Bracha (Halachos of Brochos by Rabbi Bodner pg 493-4, chapter 27) </ref>
 
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====French Toast====
===Melba Toast===
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#French Toast has the status of bread and requires HaMotzei. <Ref> Vezot HaBracha (Chapter 3, pg 20,21,23) </ref>
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====Melba Toast====
 
# Melba toast is a type of cracker made from toasted bread. Many say that the correct Bracha is Mezonot, while some say that the Bracha is HaMotzei. <ref>
 
# Melba toast is a type of cracker made from toasted bread. Many say that the correct Bracha is Mezonot, while some say that the Bracha is HaMotzei. <ref>
 
* S"A 168:7 rules that when one eats Pas HaBa BeKisnin as a snack the Bracha Rishona is Mezonot and Bracha Achrona is Al HaMichya, however, if one makes a meal out of it the bracha is HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon. S"A 168:8 gives three definitions of Pas Haba BeKisnin and the last one is a hard dry baked goods.  
 
* S"A 168:7 rules that when one eats Pas HaBa BeKisnin as a snack the Bracha Rishona is Mezonot and Bracha Achrona is Al HaMichya, however, if one makes a meal out of it the bracha is HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon. S"A 168:8 gives three definitions of Pas Haba BeKisnin and the last one is a hard dry baked goods.  
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* However, others argue that since it was made from the beginning with the intent to make it into a snack type food which is hard and dry like a cracker the Bracha is Mezonot even though it started out as real bread. This is the opinion of Halachos of Brachos (Rabbi Bodner, chap 26, pg 467) and Vezot HaBracha (chap 3, pg 21 and Birur Halacha 39). </ref>
 
* However, others argue that since it was made from the beginning with the intent to make it into a snack type food which is hard and dry like a cracker the Bracha is Mezonot even though it started out as real bread. This is the opinion of Halachos of Brachos (Rabbi Bodner, chap 26, pg 467) and Vezot HaBracha (chap 3, pg 21 and Birur Halacha 39). </ref>
  
==If the food is meant to fill==
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===If the food is meant to fill===
 
# Mezonot that fall into the category of filled dough or crumbling hard dough, if that food is meant to be eaten to fill oneself, one should make a HaMotzei regardless of how much one ate. However, foods that fall into the category of sweet dough, even if it’s meant to be eaten to satisfy hunger, one should make a Mezonot. <Ref> S”A 168:17 rules that bread filled with meat or fish has the Bracha of HaMotzei. Magan Avraham 168:44 explains that this Bracha is made even if one doesn’t have a keviyut sueda because regarding sweets that fill the bread such as fruit there’s room to say that such fillers make the bread into a temporary snack, however, a substantial filler such as meat, fish, or cheese don’t make the bread change from HaMotzei to Mezonot. So rules the Mishna Brurah 168:94 and Yalkut Yosef (Brachot pg 125, Kitzur S”A 168:3). However, the Taz 168:20 argues that for filled bread the Bracha is Mezonot like in S”A 168:7 unless there’s a keviyut sueda. [Interestingly, the Ben Ish Chai (Pinchas 20), Kaf HaChaim 168:137, and Halacha Brurah 168:49 are concerned for the opinion of the Taz and hold that one should make sure to have more than a keviyut sueda, however if one doesn’t have enough and one doesn’t have bread, one should make a mezonot.] The VeZot HaBracha (pg 17 note 1) rules like Mishna Brurah that for bread that’s filled and is meant to fill one up the bracha is HaMotzei. </ref>
 
# Mezonot that fall into the category of filled dough or crumbling hard dough, if that food is meant to be eaten to fill oneself, one should make a HaMotzei regardless of how much one ate. However, foods that fall into the category of sweet dough, even if it’s meant to be eaten to satisfy hunger, one should make a Mezonot. <Ref> S”A 168:17 rules that bread filled with meat or fish has the Bracha of HaMotzei. Magan Avraham 168:44 explains that this Bracha is made even if one doesn’t have a keviyut sueda because regarding sweets that fill the bread such as fruit there’s room to say that such fillers make the bread into a temporary snack, however, a substantial filler such as meat, fish, or cheese don’t make the bread change from HaMotzei to Mezonot. So rules the Mishna Brurah 168:94 and Yalkut Yosef (Brachot pg 125, Kitzur S”A 168:3). However, the Taz 168:20 argues that for filled bread the Bracha is Mezonot like in S”A 168:7 unless there’s a keviyut sueda. [Interestingly, the Ben Ish Chai (Pinchas 20), Kaf HaChaim 168:137, and Halacha Brurah 168:49 are concerned for the opinion of the Taz and hold that one should make sure to have more than a keviyut sueda, however if one doesn’t have enough and one doesn’t have bread, one should make a mezonot.] The VeZot HaBracha (pg 17 note 1) rules like Mishna Brurah that for bread that’s filled and is meant to fill one up the bracha is HaMotzei. </ref>
 
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====Mezonot Rolls====
===Mezonot Rolls===
 
 
# Since 'Mezonot' rolls are primarily eaten as part of a meal, many say that the bracha is HaMotzei (even if one eats a little) <ref> Vezot HaBracha (pg 19, chapter 19 and pg 386) in name of Rav Elyashiv, Rav Nassim Karlitz, and Or Letzion (Vol 2, 12:4). Many American rabbis ruled that the bracha is HaMotzei including Rabbi Avraham Bik, Rabbi Reuven Feinstein, Rabbi Moshe Heinemann, Rav Moshe Shtern, Rabbi Yisrael Belsky, Rabbi Avrham Bloomenkrantz, and Veten Bracha (Halachos of Brochos by Rabbi Bodner pg 498-9, chapter 27) in name of Rabbi Shlomo Zalman regarding America. </ref> and some say the bracha is Mezonot <ref> Vezot HaBracha (pg 18, chapter 3) in name of Rav Shlomo Zalman and the rabbis on the Badatz Edah Charedit </ref>. Therefore, one should eat it as part of a meal and make HaMotzei. <Ref> http://www.oukosher.org/index.php/common/article/the_mezonos_roll_is_it_a_piece_of_cake_by_rabbi_yaakov_luban/ is the OU's position based on a Teshuva of Rabbi Yisrael Belsky which is that if a Mezonot roll is eaten as part of the meal the bracha is HaMotzei, see [[Making a meal on Mezonot]]. So holds the Star-K http://www.star-k.org/kashrus/kk-issues-pashabah.htm. </ref> However, if that’s impossible, one has what to rely on to make a HaMotzei, and one has what to rely on to make a Mezonot. <Ref> Vezot HaBracha (Birur 56, pg 352) </ref>  
 
# Since 'Mezonot' rolls are primarily eaten as part of a meal, many say that the bracha is HaMotzei (even if one eats a little) <ref> Vezot HaBracha (pg 19, chapter 19 and pg 386) in name of Rav Elyashiv, Rav Nassim Karlitz, and Or Letzion (Vol 2, 12:4). Many American rabbis ruled that the bracha is HaMotzei including Rabbi Avraham Bik, Rabbi Reuven Feinstein, Rabbi Moshe Heinemann, Rav Moshe Shtern, Rabbi Yisrael Belsky, Rabbi Avrham Bloomenkrantz, and Veten Bracha (Halachos of Brochos by Rabbi Bodner pg 498-9, chapter 27) in name of Rabbi Shlomo Zalman regarding America. </ref> and some say the bracha is Mezonot <ref> Vezot HaBracha (pg 18, chapter 3) in name of Rav Shlomo Zalman and the rabbis on the Badatz Edah Charedit </ref>. Therefore, one should eat it as part of a meal and make HaMotzei. <Ref> http://www.oukosher.org/index.php/common/article/the_mezonos_roll_is_it_a_piece_of_cake_by_rabbi_yaakov_luban/ is the OU's position based on a Teshuva of Rabbi Yisrael Belsky which is that if a Mezonot roll is eaten as part of the meal the bracha is HaMotzei, see [[Making a meal on Mezonot]]. So holds the Star-K http://www.star-k.org/kashrus/kk-issues-pashabah.htm. </ref> However, if that’s impossible, one has what to rely on to make a HaMotzei, and one has what to rely on to make a Mezonot. <Ref> Vezot HaBracha (Birur 56, pg 352) </ref>  
===Pizza===
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====Pizza====
 
# Regular Pizza (with dough that’s just flour and water or only an amount of fruit juice or oil that’s not recognizable in taste), according to Sephardim has the Bracha of HaMotzei even for a small amount. <Ref> S”A 168:17 rules that bread filled with meat or fish has the Bracha of HaMotzei. Magan Avraham 168:44 explains that this Bracha is made even if one doesn't have a keviyut sueda because regarding sweets that fill the bread such as fruit there’s room to say that such fillers make the bread into a temporary snack, however, a substantial filler such as meat, fish, or cheese don’t make the bread change from HaMotzei to Mezonot. Therefore, Rabbi Ovadyah Yosef in Yalkut Yosef (Brachot pg 125, Kitzur S”A 168:3), Halichot Olam vol 2 pg 114, and Sh”t Yabea Omer 9:108(84) rules that regarding pizza the halacha is the same as dough filled with meat which has the Bracha of HaMotzei. So rules Chacham Ben Tzion Abba Shaul in Or Letzion (vol 2, 12:5), and Rabbi Moshe HaLevi in Birkat Hashem (vol 2, 2:62). However, the Taz 168:20 argues on the Magan Avraham and holds that for filled bread the Bracha is Mezonot just like if it was filled with sweets unless there’s a keviyut sueda. Halacha Brurah 168:49-50 is concerned for the opinion of the Taz and argues that seemingly pizza should be mezonot, however, he concludes that since it is always eaten as a meal food it is Hamotzei, but it's preferable to make sure to have more than a keviyut sueda and make HaMotzei. </ref> However, according to Ashkenazim, in Israel the poskim hold that the bracha is Hamotzei, <ref> VeZot HaBracha (pg 21) quotes Rabbi Shlomo Zalman, Rabbi Sheinburg, and Rabbi Moshe Shternbach that the Bracha on pizza (which is made from water and flour) is HaMotzei. </ref> and in America, some say that it depends on one's intent, if one intends to have it as a meal, then the bracha is HaMotzei and if one intends to have it as a snack the bracha is Mezonot. <ref> Veten Bracha (Halachos of Brochos by Rabbi Bodner pg 499-500, chapter 27) writes in the name of Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach that regarding America where some people eat it as a snack, it depends on each person's intent. http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/745055/Rabbi_Aryeh_Lebowitz/Ten_Minute_Halacha_-_Pas_Haba_B'kisnin seems to agree. The [http://www.star-k.org/kashrus/kk-issues-pashabah.htm Star K] writes that one slice is certainly a snack, three is certainly a meal, and two is questionable but if one eats it with a side dish then it would be considered a keviut seudah and one should make HaMotzei. </ref> whereas others maintain that the bracha is HaMotzei. However all agree if one eats a Shuir Seuda then one should make HaMotzei. <ref> Rav Mordechai Willig (Am Mordechai page 99) and Rav Yisroel Belsky (Mesora 1:40) hold that even in America the bracha is HaMotzei. This is also the opinion of the [http://www.ou.org/publications/brachot/default.htm OU]. See a summary of the subject at http://www.koltorah.org/ravj/14-38_The_Bracha_on_One_Slice_of_Pizza.htm [This also seems to be the opinion of Rav Dovid Feinstein see http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/brachos-on-pizza.] Pitchei Halacha (Laws of Brachos by Rabbi Binyamin Forst pg 235) finds a very hard time justifying making a Mezonot on one slice but says that if one has pizza as a meal one should certainly make HaMotzei. </ref>
 
# Regular Pizza (with dough that’s just flour and water or only an amount of fruit juice or oil that’s not recognizable in taste), according to Sephardim has the Bracha of HaMotzei even for a small amount. <Ref> S”A 168:17 rules that bread filled with meat or fish has the Bracha of HaMotzei. Magan Avraham 168:44 explains that this Bracha is made even if one doesn't have a keviyut sueda because regarding sweets that fill the bread such as fruit there’s room to say that such fillers make the bread into a temporary snack, however, a substantial filler such as meat, fish, or cheese don’t make the bread change from HaMotzei to Mezonot. Therefore, Rabbi Ovadyah Yosef in Yalkut Yosef (Brachot pg 125, Kitzur S”A 168:3), Halichot Olam vol 2 pg 114, and Sh”t Yabea Omer 9:108(84) rules that regarding pizza the halacha is the same as dough filled with meat which has the Bracha of HaMotzei. So rules Chacham Ben Tzion Abba Shaul in Or Letzion (vol 2, 12:5), and Rabbi Moshe HaLevi in Birkat Hashem (vol 2, 2:62). However, the Taz 168:20 argues on the Magan Avraham and holds that for filled bread the Bracha is Mezonot just like if it was filled with sweets unless there’s a keviyut sueda. Halacha Brurah 168:49-50 is concerned for the opinion of the Taz and argues that seemingly pizza should be mezonot, however, he concludes that since it is always eaten as a meal food it is Hamotzei, but it's preferable to make sure to have more than a keviyut sueda and make HaMotzei. </ref> However, according to Ashkenazim, in Israel the poskim hold that the bracha is Hamotzei, <ref> VeZot HaBracha (pg 21) quotes Rabbi Shlomo Zalman, Rabbi Sheinburg, and Rabbi Moshe Shternbach that the Bracha on pizza (which is made from water and flour) is HaMotzei. </ref> and in America, some say that it depends on one's intent, if one intends to have it as a meal, then the bracha is HaMotzei and if one intends to have it as a snack the bracha is Mezonot. <ref> Veten Bracha (Halachos of Brochos by Rabbi Bodner pg 499-500, chapter 27) writes in the name of Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach that regarding America where some people eat it as a snack, it depends on each person's intent. http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/745055/Rabbi_Aryeh_Lebowitz/Ten_Minute_Halacha_-_Pas_Haba_B'kisnin seems to agree. The [http://www.star-k.org/kashrus/kk-issues-pashabah.htm Star K] writes that one slice is certainly a snack, three is certainly a meal, and two is questionable but if one eats it with a side dish then it would be considered a keviut seudah and one should make HaMotzei. </ref> whereas others maintain that the bracha is HaMotzei. However all agree if one eats a Shuir Seuda then one should make HaMotzei. <ref> Rav Mordechai Willig (Am Mordechai page 99) and Rav Yisroel Belsky (Mesora 1:40) hold that even in America the bracha is HaMotzei. This is also the opinion of the [http://www.ou.org/publications/brachot/default.htm OU]. See a summary of the subject at http://www.koltorah.org/ravj/14-38_The_Bracha_on_One_Slice_of_Pizza.htm [This also seems to be the opinion of Rav Dovid Feinstein see http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/brachos-on-pizza.] Pitchei Halacha (Laws of Brachos by Rabbi Binyamin Forst pg 235) finds a very hard time justifying making a Mezonot on one slice but says that if one has pizza as a meal one should certainly make HaMotzei. </ref>
 
# Pizza which was kneaded with a majority of fruit juice or eggs is a dispute, some say it's Mezonot, some say it's HaMotzei, and so one should eat it in a meal, and everyone agrees that if one eats the Shuir Seuda (which some say is 2 slices) one should make HaMotzei. <ref>Vezot HaBracha (pg 22) writes in name of Rav Elyashiv and others that the status of such pizza is in doubt and so one should eat it in a meal or eat a Shuir Sueda which the Vezot HaBracha writes is 2 slices if one is full from that amount. </ref>
 
# Pizza which was kneaded with a majority of fruit juice or eggs is a dispute, some say it's Mezonot, some say it's HaMotzei, and so one should eat it in a meal, and everyone agrees that if one eats the Shuir Seuda (which some say is 2 slices) one should make HaMotzei. <ref>Vezot HaBracha (pg 22) writes in name of Rav Elyashiv and others that the status of such pizza is in doubt and so one should eat it in a meal or eat a Shuir Sueda which the Vezot HaBracha writes is 2 slices if one is full from that amount. </ref>
 +
====Matzah====
 +
# The Ashkenazic minhag is to make HaMotzei on Matzeh all year round <ref>Vezot HaBracha (pg 20)</ref> whereas the Sephardic minhag is to make Mezonot and Al HaMichya on Matzah all year round except for Pesach when one makes HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon. Nonetheless, Sephardic authorities add that (for all round besides Pesach) those who want to make HaMotzei on Matzah when eaten as a meal (even without 216 grams) can do so and that a God fearing person would always eat Matzah in a meal with real bread. <Ref> Vezot HaBracha (Chapter 3, pg 20), Yalkut Yosef (Kitzur S”A 168:4), Chazon Ovadyah (Brachot pg 65, note 3) </ref>
  
===Matzah===
+
==Questions and Answers==
# The Ashkenazic minhag is to make HaMotzei on Matzeh all year round, whereas the Sephardic minhag is to make Mezonot except on Pesach. <ref>Vezot HaBracha (pg 20)</ref>
+
# What's the bracha on Pizza? [[#Pizza]]
 
+
==Related topics==
 +
[[Making a meal on Mezonot]]
 
==References==
 
==References==
 
<references/>
 
<references/>

Revision as of 04:29, 16 October 2011

Pas Haba BeKisnin is a Talmudic term used to describe a certain type of snack food and in general this includes most of our cakes and cookies. The Bracha for these types of foods depends on whether it's eaten as a snack or a meal. For the precise definitions and laws see further. For background see footnotes.

Cakes and Cookies.jpg

The Bracha of Pas Haba Bekisnin

  1. If one eats Pah Habah Bekisnin as a snack one should make Mezonot for Bracha Rishona and Al HaMichya for Bracha Achrona and if one eats Pas HaBah BeKisnin as a meal one should make HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon. But what is considered a meal for this halacha?
    1. According to Ashkenazim, if one eats less than 8 kezaytim one should certainly make a Mezonot. If one eats the amount of a regular meal one should make HaMotzei. [For a regular person if one eats 280 grams of regular cake one certainly is having the amount of a regular meal and could make HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon.] Preferably, one shouldn't have in between 8 Kezayitim and the amount of a regular meal. After the fact (if one ate between 8 Kezayitim and a definite meal), if one is not full make Al HaMichya and if one is full make Birkat HaMazon, yet, in such a case it’s preferable to hear Birkat HaMazon (from someone who’s obligated to make Birkat HaMazon) or to eat bread (making HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon). [For background see footnote.][1]
    2. According to Sephardim, if one ate less than 6 Kezaytim one should make a Mezonot. If one eats more than 8 Kezayitim one should make HaMotzei. Preferably one shoudln't eat between 6 and 8 Kezaytim and if one did then one should just make Al HaMichya. [For background see footnote.][2]


For more details about what is considered a meal for Pas Habah BeKisnin and cases where one changes one's mind in middle of the meal, see Making a meal on Mezonot.

What is Pas Haba Bikisnin?

The S"A (168:7) rules that there are three definitions of Pas Haba Bikisnin. [3] One therefore makes a Mezonot when eating an item that falls into one of the three categories:

  1. The dough itself is sweetened with fruit juice, oil, sugar, honey, margarine, etc.
  2. The bread is filled with a sweet filler such as: chocolate, nuts, fruit, etc.
  3. The bread is very hard


For examples of these categories see further.

First category

  1. According to Ashkenzim, if there’s a majority (51%) of sweeteners such as fruit juice, oil, egg, margarine, sugar, honey, or the like in comparison to the amount of water added to the flour, then the Bracha is mezonot. [4]However, water mixed into the sweeteners such as diluted fruited juice or margarine (usually 15% water) isn’t included in the calculations of sweeteners to water. [5]
  2. According to Sephardim, if the taste of the sweeteners is recognizable in the dough, then the Bracha is mezonot. [6]

Second category

  1. Dough which is filled with sweeteners such as nuts, chocolate, or the like and is cooked together with the dough, and the taste is recognizable, the bracha is Mezonot. [7]

Third category

  1. If the dough is cooked into a food that's hard and crumbles the bracha is Mezonot. [8]

More examples

  1. The following foods are called Pas HaBah BeKisnin and if one eats a Shuir Seuda one must make a HaMotzei: Berakas, Hotdog in pastry, cake, cookies, pretzels, crackers, and cereals made from the 5 grains. [9]
  2. The following foods are called Tavshil Mezonot and even if one eats a Shuir Seuda one makes a Mezonot: Farina, oatmeal, noodles, rice, soup nuts, farfel, couscous, blintzes, kugel*, and wafers*. [10]

Egg Matzah

  1. Egg Matzah which was kneaded with mostly fruit juice or eggs (as opposed to water) is considered Pas Haba BiKisnin. [11]

Pancakes

  1. If the pancakes were made with very little oil (just enough to prevent it from getting burned) then it is considered Pas Haba Bikisnin. If the pancakes were made with a significant amount of oil, there's a doubt whether it's considered Pas Haba Bekisnin or not and so if one intends to eat a the amount of a normal meal (see Making a meal on Mezonot) one should eat it in a meal. If the pancakes were deep fried then the bracha is Mezonot even if the amount of a normal meal is consumed. [12]

French Toast

  1. French Toast has the status of bread and requires HaMotzei. [13]

Melba Toast

  1. Melba toast is a type of cracker made from toasted bread. Many say that the correct Bracha is Mezonot, while some say that the Bracha is HaMotzei. [14]

If the food is meant to fill

  1. Mezonot that fall into the category of filled dough or crumbling hard dough, if that food is meant to be eaten to fill oneself, one should make a HaMotzei regardless of how much one ate. However, foods that fall into the category of sweet dough, even if it’s meant to be eaten to satisfy hunger, one should make a Mezonot. [15]

Mezonot Rolls

  1. Since 'Mezonot' rolls are primarily eaten as part of a meal, many say that the bracha is HaMotzei (even if one eats a little) [16] and some say the bracha is Mezonot [17]. Therefore, one should eat it as part of a meal and make HaMotzei. [18] However, if that’s impossible, one has what to rely on to make a HaMotzei, and one has what to rely on to make a Mezonot. [19]

Pizza

  1. Regular Pizza (with dough that’s just flour and water or only an amount of fruit juice or oil that’s not recognizable in taste), according to Sephardim has the Bracha of HaMotzei even for a small amount. [20] However, according to Ashkenazim, in Israel the poskim hold that the bracha is Hamotzei, [21] and in America, some say that it depends on one's intent, if one intends to have it as a meal, then the bracha is HaMotzei and if one intends to have it as a snack the bracha is Mezonot. [22] whereas others maintain that the bracha is HaMotzei. However all agree if one eats a Shuir Seuda then one should make HaMotzei. [23]
  2. Pizza which was kneaded with a majority of fruit juice or eggs is a dispute, some say it's Mezonot, some say it's HaMotzei, and so one should eat it in a meal, and everyone agrees that if one eats the Shuir Seuda (which some say is 2 slices) one should make HaMotzei. [24]

Matzah

  1. The Ashkenazic minhag is to make HaMotzei on Matzeh all year round [25] whereas the Sephardic minhag is to make Mezonot and Al HaMichya on Matzah all year round except for Pesach when one makes HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon. Nonetheless, Sephardic authorities add that (for all round besides Pesach) those who want to make HaMotzei on Matzah when eaten as a meal (even without 216 grams) can do so and that a God fearing person would always eat Matzah in a meal with real bread. [26]

Questions and Answers

  1. What's the bracha on Pizza? #Pizza

Related topics

Making a meal on Mezonot

References

  1. See next note
  2. What’s the Bracha on Pas HaBah Bekisnin?
    • The opinion of Rav Nachman and Shmuel in Gemara Brachot 42b is the Bracha on Pas HaBah Bekisnin is Mezonot when eaten as a snack and HaMotzei when eaten as a meal. Rashi (Brachot 41b D”H Pas) and the Rif 30a holds that if one eats Pas HaBah Bekisnin as a snack there’s either no Bracha Achrona at all or there’s only a Boreh Nefashot (see Rabbenu Yonah’s (29b D”H Trisar) two explanations of the Rif and Tosfot’s (D”H Elah) explanation of Rashi). However, Tosfot (41b D”H Elah) explains that the Bracha Achrona on Pas HaBah Bekisnin is Al HaMichya (if one doesn’t make it into a meal). The Rosh 6:30, Rashba D”H Rav Huna, and Rambam (Brachot 3:9) agree with Tosfot and the Tur and S”A 168:6 codify this as halacha that for a snack one makes Mezonot and Al HaMichya and a meal one makes HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon.
    What is considered a meal?
    • The Bet Yosef 168:6 quoting the Shibolei HaLeket (Siman 159), Magan Avraham 168:13, and Chaye Adam 54:14 in name of the Gra hold that the amount of meal for this halacha is the amount people normally eat at a regular meal in the morning and evening. (Mishna Brurah 168:24 and Shaar HaTzion 19 also quote the Sefer Eshkol and Shagat Aryeh). However, the Birkei Yosef 186:4 and Kaf HaChaim 168:45 argue that the amount of a meal in this context is the same as a meal for Eruv Chatzerot which is either 3 or 4 KeBaytzim.
    • Ashkenazim: The Mishna Brurah 168:24 rules that the halacha follows the opinion that a meal is considered by a regular meal people eat but adds that it's proper to be strict for those who are strict to require 4 KeBaytzim (meaning, that preferably one should only eat less than 8 Kezayitim or more than the amount of a regular meal, Vezot HaBracha pg 29). VeZot HaBracha (chap 4, pg 31) writes that according to his calculation for a regular person for regular cake if one eats less than 230 grams that is considered a snack, if one eat more than 280 grams that is certainly a meal. He continues that if one did eat in between 8 Kezayitim and a certain meal, if one is not full make Al HaMichya and if one is full make Birkat HaMazon, yet, in such a case it’s preferable to hear Birkat HaMazon (from someone who’s obligated to make Birkat HaMazon) or to eat bread (making HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon).
    • Sephardim: Halacha Brurah 168:16 (explained in Otzorot Yosef Siman 9) writes that Sephardim hold like the Chida that if one ate 8 Kezayitim one should make HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon, and if one ate less than that one should make Mezonot and Al HaMichya but it's preferable that one shouldn't eat in between 6 and 8 Kezayitim.
  3. What is Pas HaBah Bekisnin?
    • Rashi (Brachot 42b D”H Pas) explains that Pas HaBah Bekisnin is a cake which was made from a dough that was kneaded with spices. Rabbenu Yonah (29a D”H Shein) quotes Rabbenu Chananel that it’s a bread with a pocket filled with nuts, honey, or other sweets. Lastly, the Aruch (D”H Kesen, quoted by Bet Yosef 168:8) quotes Rav Hai Goan that it’s a hard cracker-like bread. The S”A 168:8 rules all three opinions.
  4. Rama 168:7, Mishna Brurah 168:33 writes that such is the minhag of Ashkenazim.
  5. VeZot HaBracha (pg 17) in name of Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach and Sh”t Shevet HaLevi 9:44
  6. S”A 168:7, Yalkut Yosef (Brachot pg 129, Kitzur S”A 168:7)
  7. S"A 168:7, Mishna Brurah 168:33, Vezot HaBracha (pg 19, chapter 3)
  8. S"A 168:7. Vezot HaBracha (pg 19, chapter 3) points out that the Mishna Brurah (168:35) writes that it must be that it's usual to be eaten as a snack.
  9. Vezot HaBracha (pg 26, chapter 3)
  10. Vezot HaBracha (Chapter 4, pg 26). There he mentions that majority of poskim hold that kugel is Tavshil Mezonot and similarly concerning wafers there’s some doubt in the poskim even though the primary halacha is that it’s Tavshil Mezonot.
  11. Veten Bracha (Halachos of Brochos by Rabbi Bodner pg 501, chapter 27)
  12. Veten Bracha (Halachos of Brochos by Rabbi Bodner pg 493-4, chapter 27)
  13. Vezot HaBracha (Chapter 3, pg 20,21,23)
    • S"A 168:7 rules that when one eats Pas HaBa BeKisnin as a snack the Bracha Rishona is Mezonot and Bracha Achrona is Al HaMichya, however, if one makes a meal out of it the bracha is HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon. S"A 168:8 gives three definitions of Pas Haba BeKisnin and the last one is a hard dry baked goods.
    • [There is a dispute about how to explain why dry bread should be Mezonot. Some say that the reason is that since it is made as a snack and not as a meal food the bracha is Mezonot (Bet David quoted by Sedei Chemed "Brachot" 1:10). Others say that because it is very hard it's unlike regular bread and so the bracha is Mezonot (Aruch HaShulchan 168:21).
    • Vezot HaBracha (Birur Halacha 39, pg 306-8) explains that there are two applications to this dispute. (1) According to the first explanation it’s not essential that the bread be very hard, however, according to the other explanation the bread must be very dry and hard. (2) According to the first explanation if one intended to make bread in order to make toast as a snack the Bracha should be Mezonot, however, according to the other explanation once it was baked it is considered bread and it shouldn’t loose the status of bread because it’s toasted. Nonetheless, the Vezot HaBracha writes that it’s very possible that even the second explanation could agree because one’s whole intent was to make it into toast and it’s not very different than just having left the dough in the oven longer instead of removing it when it became bread. ]
    • Melba toast is a type of cracker made from regular bread which is toasted. Some say that since it was made a regular bread it is HaMotzei and toasting bread isn’t one of the ways which changes the status of bread (See 168:10). This is the opinion of the Laws of Brachos (Rabbi Forst, chap 8, pg 239) and the Star K.
    • However, others argue that since it was made from the beginning with the intent to make it into a snack type food which is hard and dry like a cracker the Bracha is Mezonot even though it started out as real bread. This is the opinion of Halachos of Brachos (Rabbi Bodner, chap 26, pg 467) and Vezot HaBracha (chap 3, pg 21 and Birur Halacha 39).
  14. S”A 168:17 rules that bread filled with meat or fish has the Bracha of HaMotzei. Magan Avraham 168:44 explains that this Bracha is made even if one doesn’t have a keviyut sueda because regarding sweets that fill the bread such as fruit there’s room to say that such fillers make the bread into a temporary snack, however, a substantial filler such as meat, fish, or cheese don’t make the bread change from HaMotzei to Mezonot. So rules the Mishna Brurah 168:94 and Yalkut Yosef (Brachot pg 125, Kitzur S”A 168:3). However, the Taz 168:20 argues that for filled bread the Bracha is Mezonot like in S”A 168:7 unless there’s a keviyut sueda. [Interestingly, the Ben Ish Chai (Pinchas 20), Kaf HaChaim 168:137, and Halacha Brurah 168:49 are concerned for the opinion of the Taz and hold that one should make sure to have more than a keviyut sueda, however if one doesn’t have enough and one doesn’t have bread, one should make a mezonot.] The VeZot HaBracha (pg 17 note 1) rules like Mishna Brurah that for bread that’s filled and is meant to fill one up the bracha is HaMotzei.
  15. Vezot HaBracha (pg 19, chapter 19 and pg 386) in name of Rav Elyashiv, Rav Nassim Karlitz, and Or Letzion (Vol 2, 12:4). Many American rabbis ruled that the bracha is HaMotzei including Rabbi Avraham Bik, Rabbi Reuven Feinstein, Rabbi Moshe Heinemann, Rav Moshe Shtern, Rabbi Yisrael Belsky, Rabbi Avrham Bloomenkrantz, and Veten Bracha (Halachos of Brochos by Rabbi Bodner pg 498-9, chapter 27) in name of Rabbi Shlomo Zalman regarding America.
  16. Vezot HaBracha (pg 18, chapter 3) in name of Rav Shlomo Zalman and the rabbis on the Badatz Edah Charedit
  17. http://www.oukosher.org/index.php/common/article/the_mezonos_roll_is_it_a_piece_of_cake_by_rabbi_yaakov_luban/ is the OU's position based on a Teshuva of Rabbi Yisrael Belsky which is that if a Mezonot roll is eaten as part of the meal the bracha is HaMotzei, see Making a meal on Mezonot. So holds the Star-K http://www.star-k.org/kashrus/kk-issues-pashabah.htm.
  18. Vezot HaBracha (Birur 56, pg 352)
  19. S”A 168:17 rules that bread filled with meat or fish has the Bracha of HaMotzei. Magan Avraham 168:44 explains that this Bracha is made even if one doesn't have a keviyut sueda because regarding sweets that fill the bread such as fruit there’s room to say that such fillers make the bread into a temporary snack, however, a substantial filler such as meat, fish, or cheese don’t make the bread change from HaMotzei to Mezonot. Therefore, Rabbi Ovadyah Yosef in Yalkut Yosef (Brachot pg 125, Kitzur S”A 168:3), Halichot Olam vol 2 pg 114, and Sh”t Yabea Omer 9:108(84) rules that regarding pizza the halacha is the same as dough filled with meat which has the Bracha of HaMotzei. So rules Chacham Ben Tzion Abba Shaul in Or Letzion (vol 2, 12:5), and Rabbi Moshe HaLevi in Birkat Hashem (vol 2, 2:62). However, the Taz 168:20 argues on the Magan Avraham and holds that for filled bread the Bracha is Mezonot just like if it was filled with sweets unless there’s a keviyut sueda. Halacha Brurah 168:49-50 is concerned for the opinion of the Taz and argues that seemingly pizza should be mezonot, however, he concludes that since it is always eaten as a meal food it is Hamotzei, but it's preferable to make sure to have more than a keviyut sueda and make HaMotzei.
  20. VeZot HaBracha (pg 21) quotes Rabbi Shlomo Zalman, Rabbi Sheinburg, and Rabbi Moshe Shternbach that the Bracha on pizza (which is made from water and flour) is HaMotzei.
  21. Veten Bracha (Halachos of Brochos by Rabbi Bodner pg 499-500, chapter 27) writes in the name of Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach that regarding America where some people eat it as a snack, it depends on each person's intent. http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/745055/Rabbi_Aryeh_Lebowitz/Ten_Minute_Halacha_-_Pas_Haba_B'kisnin seems to agree. The Star K writes that one slice is certainly a snack, three is certainly a meal, and two is questionable but if one eats it with a side dish then it would be considered a keviut seudah and one should make HaMotzei.
  22. Rav Mordechai Willig (Am Mordechai page 99) and Rav Yisroel Belsky (Mesora 1:40) hold that even in America the bracha is HaMotzei. This is also the opinion of the OU. See a summary of the subject at http://www.koltorah.org/ravj/14-38_The_Bracha_on_One_Slice_of_Pizza.htm [This also seems to be the opinion of Rav Dovid Feinstein see http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/brachos-on-pizza.] Pitchei Halacha (Laws of Brachos by Rabbi Binyamin Forst pg 235) finds a very hard time justifying making a Mezonot on one slice but says that if one has pizza as a meal one should certainly make HaMotzei.
  23. Vezot HaBracha (pg 22) writes in name of Rav Elyashiv and others that the status of such pizza is in doubt and so one should eat it in a meal or eat a Shuir Sueda which the Vezot HaBracha writes is 2 slices if one is full from that amount.
  24. Vezot HaBracha (pg 20)
  25. Vezot HaBracha (Chapter 3, pg 20), Yalkut Yosef (Kitzur S”A 168:4), Chazon Ovadyah (Brachot pg 65, note 3)