Mussaf: Difference between revisions
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# After the fact if someone davened Mussaf before Shacharit he fulfilled his obligation.<Ref>Aruch Hashulchan 286:7 asked how you can daven mussaf before Shacharit even after the fact like the Rama writes because Shacharit is supposed to be first as it says boker. But Igrot Moshe OC 4:68 asks how this comment is very difficult since he quotes the Tosfot pesachim and menachot that mdeoritta bedieved you’re yotzei a korban if brought before tamid shel shachar. Even though it is pasul mderabbanan maybe they didn’t institute that for tefillah. Furthermore, the Rambam doesn’t agree that it is pasul at all (see Mishneh Lmelech Temidin Umusafin 1:3). (Tosfot Yoma 29a s.v. elah seems to agree that it isn’t pasul at all.) The Rama is based on the Rashba Brachot 28 s.v. tanu explicitly. Rav Moshe concludes that certainly we follow the Rashba and Rama unlike the Aruch Hashulchan.</ref> | # After the fact if someone davened Mussaf before Shacharit he fulfilled his obligation.<Ref>Aruch Hashulchan 286:7 asked how you can daven mussaf before Shacharit even after the fact like the Rama writes because Shacharit is supposed to be first as it says boker. But Igrot Moshe OC 4:68 asks how this comment is very difficult since he quotes the Tosfot pesachim and menachot that mdeoritta bedieved you’re yotzei a korban if brought before tamid shel shachar. Even though it is pasul mderabbanan maybe they didn’t institute that for tefillah. Furthermore, the Rambam doesn’t agree that it is pasul at all (see Mishneh Lmelech Temidin Umusafin 1:3). (Tosfot Yoma 29a s.v. elah seems to agree that it isn’t pasul at all.) The Rama is based on the Rashba Brachot 28 s.v. tanu explicitly. Rav Moshe concludes that certainly we follow the Rashba and Rama unlike the Aruch Hashulchan.</ref> | ||
# If you come to shul when the tzibur is up to musaf and you didn’t yet say shacharit what should you do? Many poskim hold that it is better to daven Shacharit even though it isn't considered tefillah btzibur since one shouldn't daven Mussaf before Shacharit initially. Other poskim however hold that it is better to daven mussaf with the tzibur and then daven Shacharit so that one will be able to daven with the tzibur. <ref> | # If you come to shul when the tzibur is up to musaf and you didn’t yet say shacharit what should you do? Many poskim hold that it is better to daven Shacharit even though it isn't considered tefillah btzibur since one shouldn't daven Mussaf before Shacharit initially. Other poskim however hold that it is better to daven mussaf with the tzibur and then daven Shacharit so that one will be able to daven with the tzibur. <ref> | ||
* Rav Moshe in Igrot Moshe OC 1:68 explains that there are 3 reasons why the korban tamid shel shacharit preceded the korban mussaf. 1) Haolah | * Rav Moshe in Igrot Moshe OC 1:68 explains that there are 3 reasons why the korban tamid shel shacharit preceded the korban mussaf. 1) Haolah indicates that the korban olah was first of all the korbanot. 2) Tadir. 3) Shacharit has boker written next to it and Mussaf has yom written next to it. Rav Moshe explains that all of these factors are separate. (However, that seems to depend on the answers of Tosfot Yoma 34a s.v. haolah whether haolah is fundamentally the same as tadir or not.) | ||
* The Rosh (cited by Tur 286) would daven by himself on Yom Kippur mussaf rather than daven with the tzibur mussaf after six and a half hours. The reason is because if he waited until then the tzibur would daven first mussaf and then mincha which is in violation of tadir even though that the ruling of the Rambam. Also, the Yesh Mefarshim in the Rosh explained that there’s no issue of tadir here since you plan on davening Mincha later unless mincha ketana already came. Furthermore, that Yesh Mefarshim is based on the Yerushalmi. However, nonetheless, the Rosh wasn’t convinced by the ruling of the Rambam or Yesh Mefarshim that it was permitted to daven mincha first because of tadir. In fact he held that in order to avoid tadir he preferred to daven by himself without a tzibur. Why would he violate tefillah btzibur vaday instead of violating tadir safek? He held that safek tadir is more important than tefillah btzibur since it is relevant to many areas of Torah. | * The Rosh (cited by Tur 286) would daven by himself on Yom Kippur mussaf rather than daven with the tzibur mussaf after six and a half hours. The reason is because if he waited until then the tzibur would daven first mussaf and then mincha which is in violation of tadir even though that the ruling of the Rambam. Also, the Yesh Mefarshim in the Rosh explained that there’s no issue of tadir here since you plan on davening Mincha later unless mincha ketana already came. Furthermore, that Yesh Mefarshim is based on the Yerushalmi. However, nonetheless, the Rosh wasn’t convinced by the ruling of the Rambam or Yesh Mefarshim that it was permitted to daven mincha first because of tadir. In fact he held that in order to avoid tadir he preferred to daven by himself without a tzibur. Why would he violate tefillah btzibur vaday instead of violating tadir safek? He held that safek tadir is more important than tefillah btzibur since it is relevant to many areas of Torah. | ||
* Rav Yitzchak Elchanan (Bear Yitzchak 20) writes that mussaf with tzibur is better since it is mekudash which is a factor equally as powerful as tadir. Tefillah btzibur isn’t mekudash. It is an enhancement of tefillah mdeoritta and an obligation mderabbanan. It is forbidden to daven in a way that won’t be accepted as it says in brachot 22b. Also, tamid before mussaf is for other reasons besides tadir. | * Rav Yitzchak Elchanan (Bear Yitzchak 20) writes that mussaf with tzibur is better since it is mekudash which is a factor equally as powerful as tadir. Tefillah btzibur isn’t mekudash. It is an enhancement of tefillah mdeoritta and an obligation mderabbanan. It is forbidden to daven in a way that won’t be accepted as it says in brachot 22b. Also, tamid before mussaf is for other reasons besides tadir. | ||
