Milk and Meat in the Kitchen: Difference between revisions
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Milk and Meat in the Kitchen (view source)
Revision as of 15:23, 24 September 2021
, 24 September 2021→Kashrut of Ovens for Meat and Milk
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# Some poskim considered the possibility that zeyia doesn't get into a food that is itself steaming. It certainly isn't accepted but some poskim use it as a factor.<ref>Rosh 20:26 isn't sure if the zeyia of a bottom pot affects a top pot if the top pot itself is steaming. His reason is that in the laws of tumah having two hot pots doesn't transfer liquids. Aruch Hashulchan 92:55 considers this possibility. Maharsham 3:208 and Horah Brurah 92:8 s.v. hakol write that this possibility can be used as a factor in certain cases.</ref> Others disregard this idea.<ref>Bet Shlomo YD 164 disregards this idea since the Rosh rejected it.</ref> | # Some poskim considered the possibility that zeyia doesn't get into a food that is itself steaming. It certainly isn't accepted but some poskim use it as a factor.<ref>Rosh 20:26 isn't sure if the zeyia of a bottom pot affects a top pot if the top pot itself is steaming. His reason is that in the laws of tumah having two hot pots doesn't transfer liquids. Aruch Hashulchan 92:55 considers this possibility. Maharsham 3:208 and Horah Brurah 92:8 s.v. hakol write that this possibility can be used as a factor in certain cases.</ref> Others disregard this idea.<ref>Bet Shlomo YD 164 disregards this idea since the Rosh rejected it.</ref> | ||
# Some poskim hold that solid foods do not have any zeyia and only liquids have zeyia.<ref> Rama in Torat Chatat 35:6 writes that foods don't have zeyia. This can be explained in two ways: (1) The Pri Megadim (seder v’hanahagot hashoel im hanishal b’isur v’heter seder 2 no. 37) says that zeiya is only an issue from liquids and not dry foods based on the laws of tumat mashkin. (2) Rav Moshe in Igrot Moshe YD 1:40 says that there is an issue of steam from dry foods if you can see it, otherwise you don’t need to assume that there is steam from dry dishes. This is implied in the language of Rama YD 108:1. | # Some poskim hold that solid foods do not have any zeyia and only liquids have zeyia.<ref> Rama in Torat Chatat 35:6 writes that foods don't have zeyia. This can be explained in two ways: (1) The Pri Megadim (seder v’hanahagot hashoel im hanishal b’isur v’heter seder 2 no. 37) says that zeiya is only an issue from liquids and not dry foods based on the laws of tumat mashkin. (2) Rav Moshe in Igrot Moshe YD 1:40 says that there is an issue of steam from dry foods if you can see it, otherwise you don’t need to assume that there is steam from dry dishes. This is implied in the language of Rama YD 108:1. | ||
* Those who hold that there's no zeyia for solid foods: Bet Meir OC 461, Masat Moshe YD 1:4, Igrot Moshe 1:40, Minchat Shlomo 2:51. Horah Brurah 92:86 | * Those who hold that there's no zeyia for solid foods: Bet Meir OC 461, Masat Moshe YD 1:4, Igrot Moshe 1:40, and Minchat Shlomo 2:51. Horah Brurah 92:86 and Rav Moshe Heinemann (Guide to Halachos p. 58) agree with Rav Moshe. For this purpose, Rav Moshe Heinemann (Guide to Halachos p. 58) writes that pizza and lasagna are not liquids.</ref> Many poskim disagree.<ref>Minchat Yakov 35:10 who is bothered with the Rama's statement denying zeyia of solid foods because of Tur and Shulchan Aruch OC 451:15 which assumes steam even from dry dishes. He answers three answers: (1) zeyia of solids causes a transfer of a tiny bit and on pesach that is an issue, (2) food zeyia is minimal but if the utensils are used for zeyia frequently it adds up, (3) when doing kashering we should do so in the most ideal form and remove the small amount of zeyia from solids. Based on these Torat Chatat's answers it sounds like there is zeyia from solid foods to be concerned about lechatchila going forward. This is also the opinion of the Shoel Umeishiv 5:4, Tzur Yakov 68, Bet Shlomo YD 164, Yabia Omer 5:7:5, and Or Letzion 3:10:2. Aruch Hashulchan 92:54 writes that it doesn't depend on whether it is solid or liquid but if it is fatty. </ref> | ||
# A minority opinion holds that zeyia is burnt up in an oven<ref>Even Yikara 3:18 cited by Yabia Omer 5:7 holds that zeyia is burnt up in an oven if it has an exposed fire in the oven but not if it has a fire behind a wall (heseko mbchutz). Rav Ben Tzion Wosner (Or Yisrael 5763 year 8 no. 4:34 pp. 92-102) holds that zeyia is burnt up in an oven. Sheilat Yavetz (1:93) holds that the zeyia is burnt up in the ovens. Maharsham 3:208 applies this reason to be lenient even if the fire is behind the wall of the oven. He isn't ready to be lenient initially.</ref> but isn't accepted.<ref>Igrot Moshe 1:40, Minchat Yitzchak 5:20, Chelkat Yakov 2:136</ref> | # A minority opinion holds that zeyia is burnt up in an oven<ref>Even Yikara 3:18 cited by Yabia Omer 5:7 holds that zeyia is burnt up in an oven if it has an exposed fire in the oven but not if it has a fire behind a wall (heseko mbchutz). Rav Ben Tzion Wosner (Or Yisrael 5763 year 8 no. 4:34 pp. 92-102) holds that zeyia is burnt up in an oven. Sheilat Yavetz (1:93) holds that the zeyia is burnt up in the ovens. Maharsham 3:208 applies this reason to be lenient even if the fire is behind the wall of the oven. He isn't ready to be lenient initially.</ref> but isn't accepted.<ref>Igrot Moshe 1:40, Minchat Yitzchak 5:20, Chelkat Yakov 2:136</ref> | ||
# A minority opinion holds that zeyia dissipates in an oven that has a small vent.<ref>Aruch Hashulchan 92:55 writes that there's no concern of zeyia in an open area as he proves from Mishna Machshirin 5:10. Therefore he writes that he isn't concerned for zeyia in ovens where there is a lot of airspace.</ref> | # A minority opinion holds that zeyia dissipates in an oven that has a small vent.<ref>Aruch Hashulchan 92:55 writes that there's no concern of zeyia in an open area as he proves from Mishna Machshirin 5:10. Therefore he writes that he isn't concerned for zeyia in ovens where there is a lot of airspace.</ref> | ||
