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Kiddush: Difference between revisions

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==Washing before making Kiddish==
==Washing before making Kiddish==
# One should make Kiddish before washing for bread. However, Bedieved, if one did wash with a bracha before making Kiddish, according to Sephardim, one should make Kiddish on bread and not on wine. <ref> Tur 271:12 in name of Rav Amram Goan (Siddur vol 2, Siman 17) writes that one should make Kiddish on wine and then wash for bread, however if one washed first one should make Kiddish on bread in accordance with Rav Bruna in Pesachim 106b. Rambam (Hilchot Shabbat 29:9-10) and the Ran's explanation of the Rif (22a) concur. Such was the minhag of the Maharam MeRotenburg (quoted in Tur 271:12) and so rules the S"A 271:12. Kaf HaChaim 271:76 adds that the Arizal (Shaar Kavanot 71c) agrees because the order should be kept as Kiddish being the completion of prayer and washing as the start of the meal. Gra 271:12, Maamer Mordechai 271:16, and Yalkut Yosef (Shabbat vol 1 pg 273) concur with S"A. Therefore, Sephardim shouldn't change from the ruling of S"A even Bedieved. However, the Kaf HaChaim 271:77 argues that Bedieved one should say Kiddish on wine because one has what to rely on. </ref> According to Ashkenazim, Bedieved one can make still make the Kiddish on wine and then have the bread. <ref> However, the Rashbam (Pesachim 106b), and Baal HaMoar (Pesachim 21b D"H Amar Rav Bruna) explain the gemara differently than the Ran and say that lechatchila one should make Kiddish first, however if one doesn't one can still make Kiddish on wine. Rabbenu Tam (Pesachim 106b D"H Mekadesh) and the Ri (Pesachim  106b D"H Zimnin) hold that even Lechatchila one should wash before making Kiddish on wine. Hagot Maimon 29:100, Sh"t Rashba 1:752, Rokeach (115), and Mordechai (Pesachim 106b; pg 37c) side with Rabbenu Tam and Ri. Such was the minhag of the Rosh (quoted by Tur 271:12) and the minhag of Ashkenaz as writes the Rama 271:12. The Taz 271:14 and Chaye Adam (Shabbat 6:12) rule that the Rama is only bedieved. Therefore, Mishna Brurah 271:62 writes that since many achronim side with Shulchan Aruch and one satisfies all opinions one should make Kiddish first, however Bedieved one can rely on the Rama to make Kiddish on wine if one did in fact wash first. Kaf HaChaim 271:77 adds in the name of the Bach that if one didn't make the bracha on Netilat yadayim one should make Kiddish on wine and then rewash so that one doesn't loose the Kiddish over wine. </ref>
# One should make Kiddish before washing for bread. However, Bedieved, if one did wash with a bracha before making Kiddish, according to Sephardim, one should make Kiddish on bread and not on wine. <ref> Tur 271:12 in name of Rav Amram Goan (Siddur vol 2, Siman 17) writes that one should make Kiddish on wine and then wash for bread, however if one washed first one should make Kiddish on bread in accordance with Rav Bruna in Pesachim 106b. Rambam (Hilchot Shabbat 29:9-10) and the Ran's explanation of the Rif (22a) concur. Such was the minhag of the Maharam MeRotenburg (quoted in Tur 271:12) and so rules the S"A 271:12. Kaf HaChaim 271:76 adds that the Arizal (Shaar Kavanot 71c) agrees because the order should be kept as Kiddish being the completion of prayer and washing as the start of the meal. Gra 271:12, Maamer Mordechai 271:16, and Yalkut Yosef (Shabbat vol 1 pg 273) concur with S"A. Therefore, Sephardim shouldn't change from the ruling of S"A even Bedieved. However, the Kaf HaChaim 271:77 argues that Bedieved one should say Kiddish on wine because one has what to rely on. </ref> According to Ashkenazim, Bedieved one can make still make the Kiddish on wine and then have the bread. <ref> However, the Rashbam (Pesachim 106b), and Baal HaMoar (Pesachim 21b D"H Amar Rav Bruna) explain the gemara differently than the Ran and say that lechatchila one should make Kiddish first, however if one doesn't one can still make Kiddish on wine. Rabbenu Tam (Pesachim 106b D"H Mekadesh) and the Ri (Pesachim  106b D"H Zimnin) hold that even Lechatchila one should wash before making Kiddish on wine. Hagot Maimon 29:100, Sh"t Rashba 1:752, Rokeach (115), and Mordechai (Pesachim 106b; pg 37c) side with Rabbenu Tam and Ri. Such was the minhag of the Rosh (quoted by Tur 271:12) and the minhag of Ashkenaz as writes the Rama 271:12. The Taz 271:14 and Chaye Adam (Shabbat 6:12) rule that the Rama is only bedieved. Therefore, Mishna Brurah 271:62 writes that since many achronim side with Shulchan Aruch and one satisfies all opinions one should make Kiddish first, however Bedieved one can rely on the Rama to make Kiddish on wine if one did in fact wash first. Kaf HaChaim 271:77 adds in the name of the Bach that if one didn't make the bracha on Netilat yadayim one should make Kiddish on wine and then rewash so that one doesn't loose the Kiddish over wine. </ref>
# Nonetheless, some Ashkenazim have the Minhag (specifically German Jews) to specifically wash before making Kiddish over wine and they have what to rely on. <ref> See previous note. Rama 271:12 writes that such was the minhag of Ashkenaz to wash before Kiddish. The Bet Yosef 271:12 comments that he saw some Sephardim who had such a practice but sternly disagreed based on the Rif and Rambam. <ref/>
# Nonetheless, some Ashkenazim have the Minhag (specifically German Jews) to specifically wash before making Kiddish over wine and they have what to rely on. <ref> See previous note. Rama 271:12 writes that such was the minhag of Ashkenaz to wash before Kiddish. The Bet Yosef 271:12 comments that he saw some Sephardim who had such a practice but sternly disagreed based on the Rif and Rambam. </ref>
# There is no difference concerning the order between the one making the Kiddish and other members of the family. <ref> Magan Avraham 271:26 in name of Hagot Mordechai (it seems that he means Mordechai pg 37b), Bach 271:11 (D"H VeleInyan) distinguish between the one making Kiddish and the other members of the family for whom Kiddish won't be an interruption. Kaf HaChaim 271:79 argues that there's no difference between the one making Kiddish and the other family members. </ref>
# There is no difference concerning the order between the one making the Kiddish and other members of the family. <ref> Magan Avraham 271:26 in name of Hagot Mordechai (it seems that he means Mordechai pg 37b), Bach 271:11 (D"H VeleInyan) distinguish between the one making Kiddish and the other members of the family for whom Kiddish won't be an interruption. Kaf HaChaim 271:79 argues that there's no difference between the one making Kiddish and the other family members. </ref>
# If one's minhag is to wash first, it's forbidden to dilute the wine between the washing and Kiddish as that would be an interruption between washing and the meal. Some say one also shouldn't pour the wine from the bottle between washing and the meal as it constitutes an interruption. <ref> Magan Avraham 271:27 writes that even according to Rabbenu Tam (Pesachim 106 D"H Mekadesh) that Lechatchila one can wash before Kiddish, explains that Bet Hillel (Brachot) says to make Kiddish first in the case where one has to dilute the wine becasue diluting wine takes precision and is definitely an interruption. Magan Avraham adds that according to the stringent opinion in S"A 166:1 (which is the Tur based on the Yerushalmi) one should be strict not to make any interruption. The Magan Avraham is brought as halacha by the Tosfet Shabbat 271:34 and Kaf HaChaim 271:78. </ref>
# If one's minhag is to wash first, it's forbidden to dilute the wine between the washing and Kiddish as that would be an interruption between washing and the meal. Some say one also shouldn't pour the wine from the bottle between washing and the meal as it constitutes an interruption. <ref> Magan Avraham 271:27 writes that even according to Rabbenu Tam (Pesachim 106 D"H Mekadesh) that Lechatchila one can wash before Kiddish, explains that Bet Hillel (Brachot) says to make Kiddish first in the case where one has to dilute the wine becasue diluting wine takes precision and is definitely an interruption. Magan Avraham adds that according to the stringent opinion in S"A 166:1 (which is the Tur based on the Yerushalmi) one should be strict not to make any interruption. The Magan Avraham is brought as halacha by the Tosfet Shabbat 271:34 and Kaf HaChaim 271:78. </ref>