Kiddush: Difference between revisions
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#One should begin to eat something immediately after [[Kiddish]]. After the fact, as long as one had intent to eat immediately one doesn't need to make [[Kiddish]] again even if one made a long interruption and had a Hesech HaDaat (interruption of thought). However, if one didn't have intent to eat right away and then made an interruption of 72 minutes a new Kiddush is needed.<ref>Preferably, Rama 273:3 writes that one should make one's meal immediately after [[Kiddish]]. Mishna Brurah 273:12 explains that preferably, one should eat one's meal right after [[Kiddish]] without waiting. However, Bedieved, Mishna Brurah 273:12 and Piskei Teshuvot 273:3 based on Aruch HaShulchan 263:1 write that one shouldn't make a new [[Kiddish]] even if one had a long break or made a change in place and returned to the place of the [[Kiddish]]. On the other hand, if one didn't have in mind to eat immediately and then made an interruption, Mishna Brurah 273:14 writes that a new Kiddush is needed. Halichot Olam (vol 3, pg 3) defines this interruption as 72 minutes. </ref> | #One should begin to eat something immediately after [[Kiddish]]. After the fact, as long as one had intent to eat immediately one doesn't need to make [[Kiddish]] again even if one made a long interruption and had a Hesech HaDaat (interruption of thought). However, if one didn't have intent to eat right away and then made an interruption of 72 minutes a new Kiddush is needed.<ref>Preferably, Rama 273:3 writes that one should make one's meal immediately after [[Kiddish]]. Mishna Brurah 273:12 explains that preferably, one should eat one's meal right after [[Kiddish]] without waiting. However, Bedieved, Mishna Brurah 273:12 and Piskei Teshuvot 273:3 based on Aruch HaShulchan 263:1 write that one shouldn't make a new [[Kiddish]] even if one had a long break or made a change in place and returned to the place of the [[Kiddish]]. On the other hand, if one didn't have in mind to eat immediately and then made an interruption, Mishna Brurah 273:14 writes that a new Kiddush is needed. Halichot Olam (vol 3, pg 3) defines this interruption as 72 minutes. </ref> | ||
##Even though Kiddush should be recited immediately prior to the meal, if there is a halachic need related to the meal to delay it, it is permitted to delay for that reason. For example, the Kiddush at the seder on Pesach is made much in advance of the meal but it is acceptable since the Maggid is a necessary prerequisite to the meal.<ref>Rav Ovadia Yosef in [http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=25473&st=&pgnum=15 (Kol Sinai Tevet 5724 p. 15)] writes that Maggid doesn't make the Kiddush before the meal not adjacent to the meal because the Maggid is necessary for the meal as we need to speak about the Matzah (''Lechem Shonim Alav Devarim Harbeh''). Halichot Shlomo of Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (Moadim v. 2 p. 248 9:14) agrees and explains that the Maggid is intrinsically part of the meal and such was the establishment of chazal. See Rav Chaim Palagi Haggadah regarding how Maggid is an extension of Kiddush (like the Rif cited by Avudraham why there's no bracha on Maggid since Kiddush already fulfills the mitzvah of Maggid).</ref> | ##Even though Kiddush should be recited immediately prior to the meal, if there is a halachic need related to the meal to delay it, it is permitted to delay for that reason. For example, the Kiddush at the seder on Pesach is made much in advance of the meal but it is acceptable since the Maggid is a necessary prerequisite to the meal.<ref>Rav Ovadia Yosef in [http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=25473&st=&pgnum=15 (Kol Sinai Tevet 5724 p. 15)] writes that Maggid doesn't make the Kiddush before the meal not adjacent to the meal because the Maggid is necessary for the meal as we need to speak about the Matzah (''Lechem Shonim Alav Devarim Harbeh''). Halichot Shlomo of Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (Moadim v. 2 p. 248 9:14) agrees and explains that the Maggid is intrinsically part of the meal and such was the establishment of chazal. See Rav Chaim Palagi Haggadah regarding how Maggid is an extension of Kiddush (like the Rif cited by Avudraham why there's no bracha on Maggid since Kiddush already fulfills the mitzvah of Maggid).</ref> | ||
#In order to have [[Kiddish]] in the place where one eats and that the [[Kiddish]] is considered a proper [[Kiddish]], one must eat at least a [[kezayit]] of [[mezonot]], bread, or a [[reviyit]] of wine.<ref>Shulchan Aruch O.C. 273:5 writes in name of the Geonim that one can fulfill the obligation to eat in the place of where one makes [[Kiddish]] by eating bread or wine. Magen Avraham 273:10 and Mishna Brurah 273:21 rule that a [[Kezayit]] is needed to fulfill this obligation. Mishna Brurah 273:25 comments that certainly [[mezonot]] fulfills the obligation as it's more significant than wine. Rabbi Akiva Eiger (on MA 273:11) points out that Magen Avraham 188:9 quotes Rabbenu Yonah Brachot 36b s.v. birkat who disagrees with the logic of the Bet Yosef 273:5 in explaining the geonim. Mishna Brurah 273:25 writes in name of Hagahot Rabbi Akiva Eiger and Tosefet [[Shabbat]] that wine doesn't fulfill one's obligation according to many and so one should only rely on this in cases of need. Piskei Teshuvot writes that it seems that there's a dispute between the Magen Avraham 273:11 and the Shaarei Teshuva 289:1 whether one can fulfill one's fulfill with [[mezonot]] that's not Pat HaBah Bekisnin. The Mishna Brurah 273:25 holds like the Magen Avraham and one can fulfill one's obligation by having any [[mezonot]]. Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchato 52:24, Sh"t Az Nidabru 8:31, Kiddush KeHilchato (pg 195), Sh"t Or Letzion (vol 2, 20:28), and Yalkut Yosef ([[Shabbat]] vol 1 pg 196; Halichot Olam (Vol 3, pg 1)) agree. </ref> Even though theoretically this applies also at night, one should be strict at night not to rely on this.<ref>Rav Ovadia Yosef in [http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=25473&st=&pgnum=13 (Kol Sinai Tevet 5724 p. 13)] writes that since some disagree with the geonim we shouldn't rely on them at night when Kiddush is Biblical. Mishna Brurah (Shaar Hatziyun 273:29) questions whether or not we should rely on the geonim for the kiddush at night and leaves it unresolved.</ref> | #In order to have [[Kiddish]] in the place where one eats and that the [[Kiddish]] is considered a proper [[Kiddish]], one must eat at least a [[kezayit]] of [[mezonot]], bread, or a [[reviyit]] of wine.<ref>Shulchan Aruch O.C. 273:5 writes in name of the Geonim that one can fulfill the obligation to eat in the place of where one makes [[Kiddish]] by eating bread or wine. Magen Avraham 273:10 and Mishna Brurah 273:21 rule that a [[Kezayit]] is needed to fulfill this obligation. Mishna Brurah 273:25 comments that certainly [[mezonot]] fulfills the obligation as it's more significant than wine. Rabbi Akiva Eiger (on MA 273:11) points out that Magen Avraham 188:9 quotes Rabbenu Yonah Brachot 36b s.v. birkat who disagrees with the logic of the Bet Yosef 273:5 in explaining the geonim. Mishna Brurah 273:25 writes in name of Hagahot Rabbi Akiva Eiger and Tosefet [[Shabbat]] that wine doesn't fulfill one's obligation according to many and so one should only rely on this in cases of need. Piskei Teshuvot writes that it seems that there's a dispute between the Magen Avraham 273:11 and the Shaarei Teshuva 289:1 whether one can fulfill one's fulfill with [[mezonot]] that's not Pat HaBah Bekisnin. The Mishna Brurah 273:25 holds like the Magen Avraham and one can fulfill one's obligation by having any [[mezonot]]. Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchato 52:24, Sh"t Az Nidabru 8:31, Kiddush KeHilchato (pg 195), Sh"t Or Letzion (vol 2, 20:28), and Yalkut Yosef ([[Shabbat]] vol 1 pg 196; Halichot Olam (Vol 3, pg 1)) agree. </ref> Even though theoretically this applies also at night, one should be strict at night not to rely on this and to make sure to have a egg's volume of bread (once one has done this, he may finish his meal in a different location).<ref>Rav Ovadia Yosef in [http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=25473&st=&pgnum=13 (Kol Sinai Tevet 5724 p. 13)] writes that since some disagree with the geonim we shouldn't rely on them at night when Kiddush is Biblical. Mishna Brurah (Shaar Hatziyun 273:29) questions whether or not we should rely on the geonim for the kiddush at night and leaves it unresolved.</ref> | ||
#If someone is reciting kiddush in one room and someone else is hearing the kiddush in another room if the person listening to the kiddush is going to eat his meal in the room where he is that is considered kiddush in the place of the meal. The reason is that the one fulfilling his obligation of kiddush needs to be in the room where he is going to eat his meal and not where the person making kiddush is.<ref>Maharam Chalavah Pesachim 101a explains that they used to make kiddush in shul and people in a nearby room would hear the kiddush and fulfill their obligation and eat there. It is considered kiddush in the place where they're going to eat since they're fulfilling their obligation and they're the ones eating. The location of the making kiddush doesn't impact that. Tosfot Pesachim 101a s.v. dochlu implies otherwise. Nonetheless, the Bet Yosef 273:6 cites the Rabbenu Yerucham, Smag, and Hagahot Maimoniyot who agreed with Maharam Chalavah. Shulchan Aruch OC 273:6 holds like Maharam Chalavah. Rabbi Akiva Eiger 273:2 explains that those listening to the kiddush are like making kiddush themselves.</ref> | #If someone is reciting kiddush in one room and someone else is hearing the kiddush in another room if the person listening to the kiddush is going to eat his meal in the room where he is that is considered kiddush in the place of the meal. The reason is that the one fulfilling his obligation of kiddush needs to be in the room where he is going to eat his meal and not where the person making kiddush is.<ref>Maharam Chalavah Pesachim 101a explains that they used to make kiddush in shul and people in a nearby room would hear the kiddush and fulfill their obligation and eat there. It is considered kiddush in the place where they're going to eat since they're fulfilling their obligation and they're the ones eating. The location of the making kiddush doesn't impact that. Tosfot Pesachim 101a s.v. dochlu implies otherwise. Nonetheless, the Bet Yosef 273:6 cites the Rabbenu Yerucham, Smag, and Hagahot Maimoniyot who agreed with Maharam Chalavah. Shulchan Aruch OC 273:6 holds like Maharam Chalavah. Rabbi Akiva Eiger 273:2 explains that those listening to the kiddush are like making kiddush themselves.</ref> | ||
#If one had intention to eat in one part of the room, but ended up eating in a different side of the room, one would fulfill his obligation of kiddush, but preferably, one should eat in the same part of the room that he intended to initially<ref>Chazon Ovadia 2 pg. 126 - See footnote where Rav Ovadia clarifies that if one intended from the time he made kiddush to eat on a different side of the same room, then even eating on the other side of the room would be permitted lechatchilla.</ref> . | #If when one made kiddush, he had intention to eat in one part of the room, but ended up eating in a different side of the room, one would fulfill his obligation of kiddush, but preferably, one should eat in the same part of the room that he intended to initially<ref>Chazon Ovadia 2 pg. 126 - See footnote where Rav Ovadia clarifies that if one intended from the time he made kiddush to eat on a different side of the same room, then even eating on the other side of the room would be permitted lechatchilla.</ref> . | ||
#If one would like to make kiddush in his house, but eat the actual meal in one's yard, one must fulfill two conditions. First, at the time of kiddush he must have intention to eat in the yard, and Secondly, from wherever he is eating in his yard, he must be able to the see the place in house where he made kiddsh. After the fact (bedieved), if one didn't have intention when making kiddush to eat in the yard, and ultimately did (as long as he could see the place he made kiddush in) he would have fulfilled his obligation.<ref>Chazon Ovadia 2 - pg. 127 </ref> | |||
==Women== | ==Women== | ||
