Davening with a Minyan: Difference between revisions
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→Who Counts for a Minyan?
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# Women don't count for a minyan and are exempt from davening in a minyan. See [[Mitzvah_to_Daven#Minyan]] page. | # Women don't count for a minyan and are exempt from davening in a minyan. See [[Mitzvah_to_Daven#Minyan]] page. | ||
# A child can't be counted for a minyan. There is an opinion who allows counting a child for the tenth person if there | # A child can't be counted for a minyan. There is an opinion who allows counting a child for the tenth person if there are nine other adults. Ashkenazim can rely on that upon in an extenuating circumstance.<ref> Rabbi Yehoshua Ben Levi (Brachot 47b) said that a child can be counted for a minyan. The Rif doesn't quote this statement. The Ramban (Milchamot 35b) explains that the Rif held that it wasn't accepted since the gemara on 48a says we don't follow any of the earlier statements on the topic of minyan and zimmun. Ravyah (cited by Mordechai Brachot 172), Rambam Tefillah 8:4, and Rashba Brachot 48a s.v. veleyt agree. <br> | ||
* Orchot Chaim (Tefillah 73) records a story in which the Rabbenu Shimshon put a town in excommunication for disobeying his ruling and counted a child for a minyan. On | However, Tosfot 48a s.v. veleyt quotes Rabbenu Tam who held that Rabbi Yehoshua Ben Levi was never rejected. The Ri disagreed and adds that Rabbenu Tam himself never followed his opinion in practice. Rosh Brachot 7:20 and Mordechai Brachot 172 quote the dispute of Rabbenu Tam and Ri and add that Rav Hai Goan agreed with Rabbenu Tam. Baal Hameor Brachot 35b agrees with Rabbenu Tam. (Raavad on Rif implies he disagrees with the Raavad.) | ||
* Tosfot s.v. veleyt writes that even according to Rabbenu Tam you can only count one child and not multiple children. However, the Baal Hameor suggests that you can even count up to four children as long as there | * Orchot Chaim (Tefillah 73) records a story in which the Rabbenu Shimshon put a town in excommunication for disobeying his ruling and counted a child for a minyan. On the opposite extreme, the Kolbo ch. 11 at the end writes that the minhag of all of Yisrael is to count a child for a minyan. Bet Yosef 55:4 writes that this is an exaggeration. | ||
* Tosfot writes that there's no advantage | * Tosfot s.v. veleyt writes that even according to Rabbenu Tam you can only count one child and not multiple children. However, the Baal Hameor suggests that you can even count up to four children as long as there are six adults. Mordechai Brachot 172. Magen Avraham 55:5 writes that even in extenuating circumstances we only follow Rabbenu Tam and not the Baal Hameor. Mishna Brurah 55:24 agrees. | ||
* Shulchan Aruch 55:4 rules that one can't count a child for a minyan at all. Rama argues that there's what to rely upon in extenuating circumstances.</ref> Many poskim say not to rely on that opinion even in an extenuating circumstance.<ref>Mishna Brurah 55:24 writes that the Levush writes that the minhag is that we never rely on counting a child and also many poskim hold that one shouldn't count a child even in extenuating circumstances.</ref> | * Tosfot writes that there's no advantage to having the child hold a sefer torah because a sefer torah isn't a person and doesn't add anything for a minyan. The Rama 55:4 writes that those who counted a child for a minyan didn't have them hold a sefer torah. Magen Avraham 55:4 writes that in his day the minhag was to count a child specifically holding a sefer torah. | ||
* Shulchan Aruch 55:4 rules that one can't count a child for a minyan at all. Rama argues that there's what to rely upon in extenuating circumstances.</ref> | |||
Many poskim say not to rely on that opinion even in an extenuating circumstance.<ref>Mishna Brurah 55:24 writes that the Levush writes that the minhag is that we never rely on counting a child and also many poskim hold that one shouldn't count a child even in extenuating circumstances. Shu"t Yabea Omer 4:9 agrees. Yalkut Yosef Dinei Chinuch Katan pg. 56 writes that if you see that the group of people you are with are going to count a child, you should leave before they can so that they don't try to say things that require a minyan when they really don't have one.</ref> | |||
# Though a deaf-mute is generally assumed to have the status of a Shoteh, there is much debate as to whether or not he is considered a Bar Da'at and can count for a [[minyan]] if he attended a special education school and learned how to communicate. As such, if there are only ten people, one may count him for a [[minyan]] but should only do a short Chazara, so as not to risk too many Berachot Levatala.<ref>Yechave Daat 2:6</ref> | # Though a deaf-mute is generally assumed to have the status of a Shoteh, there is much debate as to whether or not he is considered a Bar Da'at and can count for a [[minyan]] if he attended a special education school and learned how to communicate. As such, if there are only ten people, one may count him for a [[minyan]] but should only do a short Chazara, so as not to risk too many Berachot Levatala.<ref>Yechave Daat 2:6</ref> | ||
# Someone who isn't religious can be counted for a minyan.<ref>Igrot Moshe OC 1:23 writes that since we learn the idea of a minyan from the meraglim it is acceptable to include someone who violates Shabbat for a minyan in order to say kaddish and kedusha, however it wouldn't be considered tefillah btzibur.</ref> | # Someone who isn't religious can be counted for a minyan.<ref>Igrot Moshe OC 1:23 writes that since we learn the idea of a minyan from the meraglim it is acceptable to include someone who violates Shabbat for a minyan in order to say kaddish and kedusha, however it wouldn't be considered tefillah btzibur.</ref> | ||
===If Some of the Minyan Left Early=== | ===If Some of the Minyan Left Early=== | ||
# If there are only 10 men in the [[minyan]], none of them may leave in middle. However, if there are more than 10 men, those who are in excess of 10 may leave if they already heard [[Barchu]], [[Kedusha]], and all the Kaddishim. <Ref>The Yerushalmi Megillah 4:4 writes that it is forbidden for someone to leave a minyan and upon him the pasuk says that one who abandons Hashem will be destroyed (Yishayahu 1:28). This is quoted by the Rif Megillah 13b, Rosh Megillah 4:7, Rambam Tefillah 8:6, and Bet Yosef 55:2. Darkei Moshe 55:1 cites Mordechai Megillah 810 who says that if there's still a minyan left it is permitted to left the minyan. Rama 55:2 codifies this. Kitzur Shuchan Aruch 15:10 and Mishna Brurah 55:14 clarify that it is only permitted to leave if there's still a minyan left and one already heard every Barchu, Kedusha, and Kaddish until Aleinu.</ref> If one already heard the Barchu, Kedusha, and Kaddishim and by leaving there won't be a minyan he may not leave in the middle of Kaddish, Kedusha, or any activity that requires a minyan but he may do so between activities. For example, if he was part of the minyan for Kedusha he may not leave until after the Kaddish Shalem after Shemona Esrei since that is one unit. However, if he was part of a minyan for Barchu he may leave before Chazarat Hashatz.<ref>Mishna Brurah 55:12</ref> | # If there are only 10 men in the [[minyan]], none of them may leave in middle. However, if there are more than 10 men, those who are in excess of 10 may leave if they already heard [[Barchu]], [[Kedusha]], and all the Kaddishim. <Ref>The Yerushalmi Megillah 4:4 writes that it is forbidden for someone to leave a minyan and upon him the pasuk says that one who abandons Hashem will be destroyed (Yishayahu 1:28). This is quoted by the Rif Megillah 13b, Rosh Megillah 4:7, Rambam Tefillah 8:6, and Bet Yosef 55:2. Darkei Moshe 55:1 cites Mordechai Megillah 810 who says that if there's still a minyan left it is permitted to left the minyan. Rama 55:2 codifies this. Kitzur Shuchan Aruch 15:10 and Mishna Brurah 55:14 clarify that it is only permitted to leave if there's still a minyan left and one already heard every Barchu, Kedusha, and Kaddish until Aleinu.</ref> If one already heard the Barchu, Kedusha, and Kaddishim and by leaving there won't be a minyan he may not leave in the middle of Kaddish, Kedusha, or any activity that requires a minyan but he may do so between activities. For example, if he was part of the minyan for Kedusha he may not leave until after the Kaddish Shalem after Shemona Esrei since that is one unit. However, if he was part of a minyan for Barchu he may leave before Chazarat Hashatz.<ref>Mishna Brurah 55:12</ref> | ||
