Corporations and Partnerships with Respect to Ribbit: Difference between revisions
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Corporations and Partnerships with Respect to Ribbit (view source)
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##For a great person who we would never suspect of having arranged a halachically forbidden transaction we explain that the document means to modify either the gains or the losses.<ref>Gemara Bava Metsia 68b, Tur and Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 177:26</ref> If half modifies the gains then the investor must accept two thirds of the losses, and if the half modifies the losses, then the investor is entitled to a third of the gains. The decision of whether half modifies gains or losses depends on the language of the document. If the language is that the investor grants or gives the portion of the profits to the agent then it is his decision. However, if the language is that the agent will take his portion of the profits then it is up to the agent's decision.<ref>Tur and Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 177:26. Gra 177:56 notes that the Rambam thinks that the iska agent always gets to choose as it seems from Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 177:4.</ref> | ##For a great person who we would never suspect of having arranged a halachically forbidden transaction we explain that the document means to modify either the gains or the losses.<ref>Gemara Bava Metsia 68b, Tur and Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 177:26</ref> If half modifies the gains then the investor must accept two thirds of the losses, and if the half modifies the losses, then the investor is entitled to a third of the gains. The decision of whether half modifies gains or losses depends on the language of the document. If the language is that the investor grants or gives the portion of the profits to the agent then it is his decision. However, if the language is that the agent will take his portion of the profits then it is up to the agent's decision.<ref>Tur and Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 177:26. Gra 177:56 notes that the Rambam thinks that the iska agent always gets to choose as it seems from Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 177:4.</ref> | ||
## For everyone else we assume that this document is forbidden and the investor may not collect any profits.<ref>Tur and Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 177:25</ref> Some say that the investor can simply state that he is interested to pay for the minimum wage of the worker and then reap the profits of the iska.<ref>Maharam Ibn Chaviv</ref> Others argue that since the document implied a halachically forbidden iska it is forbidden to take profits and it is not correctable.<ref>Hagahot Prisha. Shach 177:52 seems to quote the Hagahot Prisha as being strict, nonetheless his conclusion seems to be at odds with this. That is why the Maharam Ibn Chaviv indeed alters the text of the Shach to be lenient. Most achronim however quote the Shach as being strict including Chelkat Binyamin 177:218.</ref> The exact halacha is unresolved.<ref>Chelkat Binyamin 177:218 cites another dispute as to whether we should follow Shulchan Aruch at all. Shulchan Aruch 177:25 based on the teshuva of the Rosh states that if the document is stated in a forbidden manner one may not collect any profits. Nonetheless, Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 177:28 seems to contradict that. Therefore, the [https://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=49382&st=&pgnum=242 Maharaal 177:39] disputes Shulchan Aruch 177:25. Chelkat Binyamin leaves it as an unresolved halacha.</ref> | ## For everyone else we assume that this document is forbidden and the investor may not collect any profits.<ref>Tur and Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 177:25</ref> Some say that the investor can simply state that he is interested to pay for the minimum wage of the worker and then reap the profits of the iska.<ref>Maharam Ibn Chaviv</ref> Others argue that since the document implied a halachically forbidden iska it is forbidden to take profits and it is not correctable.<ref>Hagahot Prisha. Shach 177:52 seems to quote the Hagahot Prisha as being strict, nonetheless his conclusion seems to be at odds with this. That is why the Maharam Ibn Chaviv indeed alters the text of the Shach to be lenient. Most achronim however quote the Shach as being strict including Chelkat Binyamin 177:218.</ref> The exact halacha is unresolved.<ref>Chelkat Binyamin 177:218 cites another dispute as to whether we should follow Shulchan Aruch at all. Shulchan Aruch 177:25 based on the teshuva of the Rosh states that if the document is stated in a forbidden manner one may not collect any profits. Nonetheless, Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 177:28 seems to contradict that. Therefore, the [https://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=49382&st=&pgnum=242 Maharaal 177:39] disputes Shulchan Aruch 177:25. Chelkat Binyamin leaves it as an unresolved halacha.</ref> | ||
# If they stipulated the percent of gains that the agent would receive and not the losses, then we can calculate the stipulation for the agent to accept of the losses to be two thirds of the percent of the gains he was receiving. Conversely, if they stipulated the percent of losses the agent would accept and not the gains, then we calculate the percent gain of the agent to be the same amount as the percent losses he accepted plus a third of the percent of gains that the investor was receiving.<ref>Rambam Sheluchin 6:5, Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 177:27. | # If they stipulated the percent of gains that the agent would receive and not the losses, then we can calculate the stipulation for the agent to accept of the losses to be two thirds of the percent of the gains he was receiving. Conversely, if they stipulated the percent of losses the agent would accept and not the gains, then we calculate the percent gain of the agent to be the same amount as the percent losses he accepted plus a third of the percent of gains that the investor was receiving.<ref>Rambam Sheluchin 6:5, Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 177:27. The Rambam's calculation of losses can be calculated with the formula L=(-2/3)*G, where L is losses and G is gains, and calculation of gains by the formula G=L+(1/3)*(1+L). An elaboration on the math for each of the rishonim on this topic see [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GjMw0EbG7mdP6iQvmGYcPF18DYaZr4UUQwAvnDAder8/edit?usp=sharing this spreadsheet] and the charts to the right. | ||
[[Image:Iska_losses.png|250px|right]] | [[Image:Iska_losses.png|250px|right]] | ||
[[Image:Iska_gains.png|250px|right]] | [[Image:Iska_gains.png|250px|right]] | ||
