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Bishul: Difference between revisions

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#For example, there is a dispute whether ketchup is considered a solid or liquid since it pours (first opinion), on the other hand it is edible cold and so it is considered a solid (second opinion).<ref>Rav Mordechai Willig in The Laws of Cooking and Warming Food on Shabbat p. 27 explains the dispute between Rav Moshe Feinstein (Igrot Moshe 4:74:5) and Rav Shlomo Zalman and Rav Elyashiv (Orchot Shabbat p. 14) in this manner. Rav Moshe holds it is a liquid since it pours, while the other poskim assume it is a solid since it is edible cold. Rav Willig accepts the definition of the other poskim.</ref>
#For example, there is a dispute whether ketchup is considered a solid or liquid since it pours (first opinion), on the other hand it is edible cold and so it is considered a solid (second opinion).<ref>Rav Mordechai Willig in The Laws of Cooking and Warming Food on Shabbat p. 27 explains the dispute between Rav Moshe Feinstein (Igrot Moshe 4:74:5) and Rav Shlomo Zalman and Rav Elyashiv (Orchot Shabbat p. 14) in this manner. Rav Moshe holds it is a liquid since it pours, while the other poskim assume it is a solid since it is edible cold. Rav Willig accepts the definition of the other poskim.</ref>
#Soupy cholent is considered a liquid and dry cholent is considered a solid.<ref>39 Melachos v. 2 p. 645</ref>
#Soupy cholent is considered a liquid and dry cholent is considered a solid.<ref>39 Melachos v. 2 p. 645</ref>
===Yesh Bishul Achar Afiya===
#A fully baked (dry heat), roasted, or fried food may not be cooked (liquid heat). According to Ashkenazim one may not cook the baked, roasted or fried food in a Kli Rishon or Kli Sheni.<ref>Shulchan Aruch O.C. 318:5 cites two opinions and Rama writes that the Minhag is to be strict even in a Kli Sheni. Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 1:59 holds like the Rama that it’s forbidden even in a Kli Sheni.
* The Yereyim 274 s.v. vkol dvar writes that it is forbidden to bake or roast anything which was cooked with liquids before Shabbat. Conversely it is forbidden to cook something in liquids which was baked or roasted before Shabbat. In terms of bishul, one could recook something that was cooked (aside from the issue of [[hachzara]]). His proofs are Pesachim 41a and Yevamot 40a. Ravyah (Shabbat ch. 197) who heard this idea directly from his teacher the Yereyim disputes his point. The Yereyim wasn't only strict not to recook something baked in a kli rishon but also would forbid putting it in a kli sheni. His approach is that we're not sure which foods cook easily and could cook in a kli sheni. Tur 318:5 argues with the Yereyim's stringency about a kli sheni. Bet Yosef 318:5 likes the point of the Ravyah and in fact thinks that the Tosfot Pesachim 41a s.v. aval is a further prove against the Yereyim. The Bet Yosef cites the Smak who accepts the Yereyim and the Mordechai who cites the dispute.
* How does the Yereyim address the Gemara Brachot 38b, which indicates that cooking does not undo baking, which is the Ravyah's question? Taz 318:6 answers that matzah and brachot doesn't depend on a small change in taste, however, on Shabbat it is forbidden to bake something cooked or vice versa since that changes its taste. Eglei Tal Ofeh 15:2 explains that the Yereyim could explain the Gemara Brachot 38b in line with Tosfot Pesachim 41a s.v. aval, Tosfot Harosh Brachot 38b s.v. ad, and Rabbenu Yonah (Brachot 27a s.v. mishum) that the cooked matzah is like matzah ashira. [Additionally, it is possible to suggest that he read the gemara Brachot 38b like the approach of the Maharam Chalavah Pesachim 41a s.v. yotzin, Rash Challah 1:5, and Bahag (cited by Tosfot Harosh Brachot 38b). Orot Hashabbat v. 1 p. 77 suggests that the Yereyim hold of this approach and answers the Tosfot Harosh's question with the opinion of Rabbenu Tam in Tosfot Pesachim 41a s.v. aval.]</ref>
#According to Ashkenazim, it’s forbidden to put any baked item such as croutons, soup nuts, [[challah]], or [[matzah]] in hot soup that was poured directly from the pot. However it is permitted to place a baked food in soup that’s was poured into a bowl through a ladle that wasn’t left in the soup for any length of time.<ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 1:59 holds like the Rama that it’s forbidden even in a Kli Sheni, however he considers the soup in the bowl a Kli Shishi if the soup was taken through a ladle that wasn’t left in the soup for any length of time. This is also codified in Hilchot [[Shabbat]] pg 263 by Rabbi Shimon Eider and [[Shabbos]] Kitchen pg 38 by Rabbi Simcha Bunim Cohen. Rav Hershel Schachter (The Laws of Cooking and Warming Food on Shabbat p. 179) writes that it is permitted to put challah in soup that was served with a ladle and adds no further conditions.</ref>
#According to Ashkenazim, it is forbidden to put a cooked or boiled food such as chicken on top of a blech.<ref>Mishna Brurah 318:41 and Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 1:60 writes that since the chicken or cooked food was cooked originally with wet-heat and now it’s being cooked through dry heat like roasting it’s forbidden to heat up the food. </ref>


===Examples of Bishul with non-foods===
===Examples of Bishul with non-foods===
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===Fully cooked solids===
===Fully cooked solids===
 
#A fully cooked solid even if it’s cold may be placed in a Kli Rishon if the pot is not on the fire.<ref>Shulchan Aruch O.C. 318:4, Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 1:10, 15, [[Shabbos]] Kitchen (Rabbi Simcha Bunim Cohen; pg 43) </ref>
#A fully cooked solid even if it’s cold may be placed in a Kli Rishon if the pot is not on the fire.<ref>S”A 318:4, Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 1:10, 15, [[Shabbos]] Kitchen (Rabbi Simcha Bunim Cohen; pg 43) </ref>
##A fully baked (dry heat), roasted, or fried food may not be cooked(liquid heat). According to Ashkenazim one may not cook the baked, roasted or fried food in a Kli Rishon or Kli Sheni.<ref>S”A 318:5 brings two opinions and Rama writes that the Minhag is to be strict even in a Kli Sheni. Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 1:59 holds like the Rama that it’s forbidden even in a Kli Sheni. </ref>
##According to Ashkenazim, it’s forbidden to put any baked item such as croutons, soup nuts, [[challah]], or [[matzah]] in hot soup that was poured directly from the pot. However it is permitted to place a baked food in soup that’s was poured into a bowl through a ladle that wasn’t left in the soup for any length of time.<ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 1:59 holds like the Rama that it’s forbidden even in a Kli Sheni, however he considers the soup in the bowl a Kli Shishi if the soup was taken through a ladle that wasn’t left in the soup for any length of time. This is also codified in Hilchot [[Shabbat]] pg 263 by Rabbi Shimon Eider and [[Shabbos]] Kitchen pg 38 by Rabbi Simcha Bunim Cohen. Rav Hershel Schachter (The Laws of Cooking and Warming Food on Shabbat p. 179) writes that it is permitted to put challah in soup that was served with a ladle and adds no further conditions.</ref>
#According to Ashkenazim, it is forbidden to put a cooked or boiled food such as chicken on top of a blech.<ref>Mishna Brurah 318:41 and Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 1:60 writes that since the chicken or cooked food was cooked originally with wet-heat and now it’s being cooked through dry heat like roasting it’s forbidden to heat up the food. </ref>


===Non-fully cooked food or liquid===
===Non-fully cooked food or liquid===
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