https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Being_Careful_With_Other_People%27s_Money&feed=atom&action=historyBeing Careful With Other People's Money - Revision history2024-03-29T10:37:17ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.39.3https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Being_Careful_With_Other_People%27s_Money&diff=32007&oldid=prevYitzchakSultan1: Text replacement - "S"A" to "Shulchan Aruch"2023-07-14T00:34:24Z<p>Text replacement - "S"A" to "Shulchan Aruch"</p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr class="diff-title" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 00:34, 14 July 2023</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l18">Line 18:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 18:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>===Stealing as a Joke===</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>===Stealing as a Joke===</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># Stealing is prohibited even if one is taking a friend's possession as a practical joke or to annoy him, and even if he has every intention of returning the item after the joke has run its course.<ref>Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 21 based on Gemara Bava Metzia 61b, Rambam Hilchot Geneva 1:2 and Sefer Hamitzvot Lav 244, Tur and <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">S"A </del>CM 348:1, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">S"A </del>Harav Hilchot Gezela 3, Aruch Hashulchan 348, Rav Moshe Feinstein (Dibrot Moshe Bava Metzia 61b note 11. see also [https://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/722487/rabbi-daniel-z-feldman/stealing-as-a-practical-joke/ Stealing as a practical joke by Rabbi Daniel Feldman] and [https://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/790102/rabbi-michael-taubes/parshas-mispatim-stealing-as-a-joke-or-to-teach-a-lesson/ Stealing as a joke or to teach a lesson] by Rabbi Michael Taubes <br></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># Stealing is prohibited even if one is taking a friend's possession as a practical joke or to annoy him, and even if he has every intention of returning the item after the joke has run its course.<ref>Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 21 based on Gemara Bava Metzia 61b, Rambam Hilchot Geneva 1:2 and Sefer Hamitzvot Lav 244, Tur and <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Shulchan Aruch </ins>CM 348:1, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Shulchan Aruch </ins>Harav Hilchot Gezela 3, Aruch Hashulchan 348, Rav Moshe Feinstein (Dibrot Moshe Bava Metzia 61b note 11. see also [https://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/722487/rabbi-daniel-z-feldman/stealing-as-a-practical-joke/ Stealing as a practical joke by Rabbi Daniel Feldman] and [https://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/790102/rabbi-michael-taubes/parshas-mispatim-stealing-as-a-joke-or-to-teach-a-lesson/ Stealing as a joke or to teach a lesson] by Rabbi Michael Taubes <br></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* The Rambam Hilchot Geneva 1:2 writes that stealing even as a joke and even with intent to return is forbidden so that one does not become accustomed to stealing. Tur and <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">S"A </del>348:1 quote this Rambam. Lechem Mishne Geneva 1:1 writes that the language of the Rambam implies that this prohibition is only dirabanan. However, see Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 21 note 22 where he quotes several acharonim who argue including Minchat Chinuch Mitzva 244, Levush 348, Rav Moshe Feinstein (Dibrot Moshe Baba Metzia Siman 72: note 11 D"H Vihineh Harambam</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* The Rambam Hilchot Geneva 1:2 writes that stealing even as a joke and even with intent to return is forbidden so that one does not become accustomed to stealing. Tur and <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Shulchan Aruch </ins>348:1 quote this Rambam. Lechem Mishne Geneva 1:1 writes that the language of the Rambam implies that this prohibition is only dirabanan. However, see Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 21 note 22 where he quotes several acharonim who argue including Minchat Chinuch Mitzva 244, Levush 348, Rav Moshe Feinstein (Dibrot Moshe Baba Metzia Siman 72: note 11 D"H Vihineh Harambam</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Pitchei Teshuva 348:2 quotes from Shita Mikubetzet on Bava Metzia 61b who rules it is only forbidden to steal with intent to keep the item, but to steal temporarily is permitted, and so is done on a daily occurrence. see also Ketzot Hachoshen 348:1 who argues on this</ref> For example, a bully grabs a can of soda from another child and when the child starts screaming, the bully says, "stop being a baby, I'm just joking." <Ref> Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 22. The Bach points out that since the Bach CM 259 points out that since the gemara derived the prohibition of stealing as a joke only in the context of lo tignov, and not lo tigzol, the prohibition would not apply to grabbing by force. However, Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 22 note 24 points out that others argue and apply it to both gezela and geneva (see Levush 359:2, Dibrot Moshe Bava Metiza Siman 71 note 11<br></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Pitchei Teshuva 348:2 quotes from Shita Mikubetzet on Bava Metzia 61b who rules it is only forbidden to steal with intent to keep the item, but to steal temporarily is permitted, and so is done on a daily occurrence. see also Ketzot Hachoshen 348:1 who argues on this</ref> For example, a bully grabs a can of soda from another child and when the child starts screaming, the bully says, "stop being a baby, I'm just joking." <Ref> Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 22. The Bach points out that since the Bach CM 259 points out that since the gemara derived the prohibition of stealing as a joke only in the context of lo tignov, and not lo tigzol, the prohibition would not apply to grabbing by force. However, Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 22 note 24 points out that others argue and apply it to both gezela and geneva (see Levush 359:2, Dibrot Moshe Bava Metiza Siman 71 note 11<br></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 22 note 26 quotes in the name of Rav Avraham Pam (cited in Atara Lamelech pg. 117) that if an adult grabs something from the child and pretends not to have it, and hides it in one hand, and then when the child opens that hand, switches it to another hand, the adult is in violation of geneva. Additionally, someone who does that violates onaa, viahavta lire'acha kamocha, and vihalachta bidrachav </ref> </div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 22 note 26 quotes in the name of Rav Avraham Pam (cited in Atara Lamelech pg. 117) that if an adult grabs something from the child and pretends not to have it, and hides it in one hand, and then when the child opens that hand, switches it to another hand, the adult is in violation of geneva. Additionally, someone who does that violates onaa, viahavta lire'acha kamocha, and vihalachta bidrachav </ref> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l38">Line 38:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 38:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># Taking something from a family member or close friend without permission is considered stealing.<ref> Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 26. see Shu"t Igrot Moshe CM 1:88:7 regarding receiving permission from parents to take something</ref> However, if one regularly took this item with permission, it is not considered stealing to now take it without permission, because it is as if the owner has pre-consented to give it to him<ref>Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 26. <p class="indent">The gemara records a story in which the sharecropper of Mari Bar Isak took fruit to some of Amoraim while Mari Bar Isak was away. Some of the Amoraim ate the fruits, while Rav Ashi did not. Rashi explains that Rav Ashi was concerned that the sharecropper was taking Mari Bar Isak’s fruit without permission and didn’t want to benefit from stolen goods. If so, what were the other Amoraim thinking? Tosfot (Bava Metsia 22a s.v. mar) explains that they assumed that the sharecropper was giving his own fruits. Then Tosfot adds that it would not have been a correct justification if the other Amoraim assumed that the sharecropper took Mari’s fruits, but once Mari would find out about it, he would be okay with it. Tosfot proves that an expression of intent isn’t effective for past events from the topic of yeush shelo medaat, assuming someone would relinquish ownership if an item is lost. </p></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># Taking something from a family member or close friend without permission is considered stealing.<ref> Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 26. see Shu"t Igrot Moshe CM 1:88:7 regarding receiving permission from parents to take something</ref> However, if one regularly took this item with permission, it is not considered stealing to now take it without permission, because it is as if the owner has pre-consented to give it to him<ref>Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 26. <p class="indent">The gemara records a story in which the sharecropper of Mari Bar Isak took fruit to some of Amoraim while Mari Bar Isak was away. Some of the Amoraim ate the fruits, while Rav Ashi did not. Rashi explains that Rav Ashi was concerned that the sharecropper was taking Mari Bar Isak’s fruit without permission and didn’t want to benefit from stolen goods. If so, what were the other Amoraim thinking? Tosfot (Bava Metsia 22a s.v. mar) explains that they assumed that the sharecropper was giving his own fruits. Then Tosfot adds that it would not have been a correct justification if the other Amoraim assumed that the sharecropper took Mari’s fruits, but once Mari would find out about it, he would be okay with it. Tosfot proves that an expression of intent isn’t effective for past events from the topic of yeush shelo medaat, assuming someone would relinquish ownership if an item is lost. </p></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><p class="indent">Tosfot’s opinion is quoted by the Shulchan Aruch and accordingly it would be prohibited to take someone else’s property even if one assumes that they would be agreeable when he finds out. Even though the Shach (C.M. 358) disagrees, the poskim (Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 182:13, Aruch HaShulchan 358:8) follow the opinion of Tosfot. Nonetheless, Rabbi Bodner (Halachos Of Other People’s Money p. 26) quotes poskim who say that if a friend or relative have allowed you to take a particular item in the past with regularity it would permitted to take it without consent.</p></ref> If he had no prior practice of taking such an item, it is considered stealing according to most poskim, even if he is sure that the relative or the friend will be happy to give it to him and in fact, the owner does consent.<ref> Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 27</ref> </div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><p class="indent">Tosfot’s opinion is quoted by the Shulchan Aruch and accordingly it would be prohibited to take someone else’s property even if one assumes that they would be agreeable when he finds out. Even though the Shach (C.M. 358) disagrees, the poskim (Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 182:13, Aruch HaShulchan 358:8) follow the opinion of Tosfot. Nonetheless, Rabbi Bodner (Halachos Of Other People’s Money p. 26) quotes poskim who say that if a friend or relative have allowed you to take a particular item in the past with regularity it would permitted to take it without consent.</p></ref> If he had no prior practice of taking such an item, it is considered stealing according to most poskim, even if he is sure that the relative or the friend will be happy to give it to him and in fact, the owner does consent.<ref> Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 27</ref> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># A husband may not take from his wife's personal property without her consent.<ref> Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 28, Kitzur <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">S"A </del>182:11 </ref> </div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># A husband may not take from his wife's personal property without her consent.<ref> Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 28, Kitzur <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Shulchan Aruch </ins>182:11 </ref> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># Similarly, a wife may not take or give away her husband's assets without his consent. For example, she may not give an amount to charity that is more than her husband would approve<ref>Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 28, [https://thehalachacenter.org/library/shaila/2011/02/16/a-woman-donating-tzedaka/ see A Woman Donating Tzedaka]</ref> A fund-raiser soliciting money from a married woman may not accept a larger than normal donation (more than people of that financial status would commonly allow their wives to donate).<ref>Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 28, Gemara Baba Kama 119a, Shulchan Aruch YD 248:4, Shu"t Igrot Moshe EH 1:103, Shu"t Shevet Halevi 5:132:7)</ref> If the woman says that she is authorized by her husband to give the donation, the money can be accepted.<ref>Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 28-29, Pitchei Teshuva YD 248:3 in the name of the Noda Biyehuda</ref></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># Similarly, a wife may not take or give away her husband's assets without his consent. For example, she may not give an amount to charity that is more than her husband would approve<ref>Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 28, [https://thehalachacenter.org/library/shaila/2011/02/16/a-woman-donating-tzedaka/ see A Woman Donating Tzedaka]</ref> A fund-raiser soliciting money from a married woman may not accept a larger than normal donation (more than people of that financial status would commonly allow their wives to donate).<ref>Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 28, Gemara Baba Kama 119a, Shulchan Aruch YD 248:4, Shu"t Igrot Moshe EH 1:103, Shu"t Shevet Halevi 5:132:7)</ref> If the woman says that she is authorized by her husband to give the donation, the money can be accepted.<ref>Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 28-29, Pitchei Teshuva YD 248:3 in the name of the Noda Biyehuda</ref></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
</table>YitzchakSultan1https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Being_Careful_With_Other_People%27s_Money&diff=29111&oldid=prevUnknown user: Text replacement - " Biblical" to " biblical"2020-12-02T20:55:42Z<p>Text replacement - " Biblical" to " biblical"</p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr class="diff-title" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 20:55, 2 December 2020</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l62">Line 62:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 62:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># For example, one may not take supplies from work, even if his employer is a non-Jew.<ref>Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 33. </ref></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># For example, one may not take supplies from work, even if his employer is a non-Jew.<ref>Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 33. </ref></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># According to some, this is even worse than stealing from a Jew as it causes a great chilul Hashem.<ref> Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 33, Tosefta Baba Kama 10:8.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># According to some, this is even worse than stealing from a Jew as it causes a great chilul Hashem.<ref> Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 33, Tosefta Baba Kama 10:8.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Aruch Hashulchan 348:1 writes that although some poskim maintain that the <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Biblical </del>prohibition against stealing from a Jew is limited to stealing more than the value of a perutah, stealing from a non-Jew is forbidden min ha-Torah even for an item valued less than a perutah.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Aruch Hashulchan 348:1 writes that although some poskim maintain that the <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">biblical </ins>prohibition against stealing from a Jew is limited to stealing more than the value of a perutah, stealing from a non-Jew is forbidden min ha-Torah even for an item valued less than a perutah.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 182:1 relates a story from the Tanna d’Bei Eliyahu of a certain person who shorted a non-Jewish customer in the measure of dates that he sold him. Later, he used the money from that transaction to purchase oil. The flask broke and the oil was spilled, causing the one relating the incident to exclaim, “Blessed is G-d, Who does not let people get away with such things!” Leviticus 19:13 says, “Do not oppress your neighbor or steal from him.”</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 182:1 relates a story from the Tanna d’Bei Eliyahu of a certain person who shorted a non-Jewish customer in the measure of dates that he sold him. Later, he used the money from that transaction to purchase oil. The flask broke and the oil was spilled, causing the one relating the incident to exclaim, “Blessed is G-d, Who does not let people get away with such things!” Leviticus 19:13 says, “Do not oppress your neighbor or steal from him.”</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Hilchot Bayit Ne'eman pg. 189 quotes from the Chida in the name of the Arizal that anybody who steals from a non-Jew, even an idol worshipper, that non-Jew will scream and litigate against the Jew when he dies.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Hilchot Bayit Ne'eman pg. 189 quotes from the Chida in the name of the Arizal that anybody who steals from a non-Jew, even an idol worshipper, that non-Jew will scream and litigate against the Jew when he dies.</div></td></tr>
</table>Unknown userhttps://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Being_Careful_With_Other_People%27s_Money&diff=26851&oldid=prevUnknown user: Text replacement - ". <ref>" to ".<ref>"2020-07-12T10:07:42Z<p>Text replacement - ". <ref>" to ".<ref>"</p>
<a href="https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Being_Careful_With_Other_People%27s_Money&diff=26851&oldid=23554">Show changes</a>Unknown userhttps://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Being_Careful_With_Other_People%27s_Money&diff=23554&oldid=prevYitzchakSultan: /* Stealing from the Government */2019-07-17T00:08:57Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Stealing from the Government</span></span></p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr class="diff-title" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 00:08, 17 July 2019</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l86">Line 86:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 86:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># It is equally forbidden to steal from the government, such as a federal or state government body.<ref> Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 34</ref></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># It is equally forbidden to steal from the government, such as a federal or state government body.<ref> Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 34</ref></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># One who receives government funding to provide lunch to students, cannot fraudulently add the name of a non-existing student to collect extra funds.<ref> Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 35, Shu"t Igrot Moshe CM 2:29</ref></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># One who receives government funding to provide lunch to students, cannot fraudulently add the name of a non-existing student to collect extra funds.<ref> Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 35, Shu"t Igrot Moshe CM 2:29</ref></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"># It is prohibited to avoid paying taxes in a democracy such as the United States.<ref> Shu"t Igrot Moshe CM 2:29, Shu"t Shevet Halevi 2:58, [https://www.torahweb.org/torah/special/2005/rsch_taxes.html Rav Hershel Schachter]. see there where Rav Schachter writes that taxes nowadays would not only be binding because of dina dimalchuta dina. Paying taxes is also your obligation to the partnership because taxes are used to provide services to the citizens (fire, police, military, garbage, mail etc). All the people of the city, state, country have to contribute to provide for that. Thus, one who withholds his taxes is not only taking from the government. He is taking from the other citizens, which inevitably includes other Jews. </ref></del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"># According to some poskim, patronizing a Jewish merchant who cheats on his taxes violates the Biblical prohibition of lifnei iver.<ref> [https://www.jlaw.com/Commentary/payingtaxes.html Eli Clark] quoted from Rav Hershel Schachter </ref></del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Other Forms of Stealing==</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Other Forms of Stealing==</div></td></tr>
</table>YitzchakSultanhttps://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Being_Careful_With_Other_People%27s_Money&diff=23174&oldid=prevYitzchakSultan at 01:00, 26 June 20192019-06-26T01:00:25Z<p></p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr class="diff-title" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 01:00, 26 June 2019</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l4">Line 4:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 4:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># גזילה - gezela is grabbing something from someone else's possession by force, in plain sight <ref> Vayikra 19:13, Baba Kama 79b, Rambam Hilchot Gezela 1:3, Shulchan Aruch CM 359:7.</ref></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># גזילה - gezela is grabbing something from someone else's possession by force, in plain sight <ref> Vayikra 19:13, Baba Kama 79b, Rambam Hilchot Gezela 1:3, Shulchan Aruch CM 359:7.</ref></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># עושק - oshek is to withhold somebody else's item from them with force, such as they gave you money and now are asking for it back and you refuse to give it. </div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># עושק - oshek is to withhold somebody else's item from them with force, such as they gave you money and now are asking for it back and you refuse to give it. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># Additionally, [[Ribbit]] (lending with interest), [[Onaat Mamon]] (overcharging), and imbalanced weights are also forms of stealing<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">. See Rashi there d"h Lama Li that </del>these are all forms of causing financial loss to another person.<ref>Baba Metzia 61a-b, Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 19 note 13 <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ref> </del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># Additionally, [[Ribbit]] (lending with interest), [[Onaat Mamon]] (overcharging <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">or cheating</ins>), and imbalanced weights are also forms of stealing <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">as </ins>these are all forms of causing financial loss to another person.<ref>Baba Metzia 61a-b<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">, Rashi s.v. Lama Li</ins>, Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 19 note 13 </ref> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"># One who commits fraud, whether it is the seller defrauding the buyer or the buyer defrauding the seller, violates a Torah prohibition. <ref> Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 62:1 </del></ref></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Statements of Chazal Regarding the Severity==</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Statements of Chazal Regarding the Severity==</div></td></tr>
</table>YitzchakSultanhttps://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Being_Careful_With_Other_People%27s_Money&diff=23173&oldid=prevYitzchakSultan at 00:53, 26 June 20192019-06-26T00:53:17Z<p></p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr class="diff-title" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 00:53, 26 June 2019</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l4">Line 4:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 4:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># גזילה - gezela is grabbing something from someone else's possession by force, in plain sight <ref> Vayikra 19:13, Baba Kama 79b, Rambam Hilchot Gezela 1:3, Shulchan Aruch CM 359:7.</ref></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># גזילה - gezela is grabbing something from someone else's possession by force, in plain sight <ref> Vayikra 19:13, Baba Kama 79b, Rambam Hilchot Gezela 1:3, Shulchan Aruch CM 359:7.</ref></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># עושק - oshek is to withhold somebody else's item from them with force, such as they gave you money and now are asking for it back and you refuse to give it. </div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># עושק - oshek is to withhold somebody else's item from them with force, such as they gave you money and now are asking for it back and you refuse to give it. </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># Additionally, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Baba Metzia 61a-b points out that ribbit </del>(lending with interest), [Onaat Mamon] (overcharging), and imbalanced weights are also forms of stealing. See Rashi there d"h Lama Li that these are all forms of causing financial loss to another person<ref>Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 19 note 13 </ref> </div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># Additionally, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">[[Ribbit]] </ins>(lending with interest), <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">[</ins>[Onaat Mamon<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">]</ins>] (overcharging), and imbalanced weights are also forms of stealing. See Rashi there d"h Lama Li that these are all forms of causing financial loss to another person<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">.</ins><ref><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Baba Metzia 61a-b, </ins>Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 19 note 13 </ref> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># One who commits fraud, whether it is the seller defrauding the buyer or the buyer defrauding the seller, violates a Torah prohibition. <ref> Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 62:1 </ref></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># One who commits fraud, whether it is the seller defrauding the buyer or the buyer defrauding the seller, violates a Torah prohibition. <ref> Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 62:1 </ref></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
</table>YitzchakSultanhttps://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Being_Careful_With_Other_People%27s_Money&diff=23103&oldid=prevDlhanon: /* Zeh Neheneh Zeh Lo Chaser */2019-06-02T15:36:52Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Zeh Neheneh Zeh Lo Chaser</span></span></p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr class="diff-title" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 15:36, 2 June 2019</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l166">Line 166:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 166:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>===If the Thief is no Longer Living===</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>===If the Thief is no Longer Living===</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># If the thief is no longer alive and his heirs inherit the item, it is their obligation to return it. If the item is no longer in their possession, they must make restitution from money they inherited from the thief.<ref>Shulchan Aruch CM 361:7, Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 91.</ref></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># If the thief is no longer alive and his heirs inherit the item, it is their obligation to return it. If the item is no longer in their possession, they must make restitution from money they inherited from the thief.<ref>Shulchan Aruch CM 361:7, Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 91.</ref></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">==Victim of Theft==</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"># Someone who is a victim of theft can pardon the person who stole money from him by simply saying that he forgives him.<ref>Aruch Hashulchan 360:1, Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 92</ref> </ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"># If somebody owes you money, it is a mitzvah to gently tell him to repay the small debt.<ref>Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 93</ref> However, if he feels that the person will not constructively accept what he is being told, it is a kind thing to forgive him instead.<ref>Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 93 based on Rambam De'ot 6:9. see Shaar Hatziyun 606:8 who writes that one should forgive the person who wronged him even if it was intentional, and in turn Hashem will forgive you for the things you intentionally do wrong, as the Gemara in Rosh Hashana 17a writes that whoever forgoes the wrongs that are done to him, Hashem treats you accordingly. </ref> </ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Zeh Neheneh Zeh Lo Chaser==</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Zeh Neheneh Zeh Lo Chaser==</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># You have the right to prevent anyone from using your property even if you don’t lose if they were to use it. Zeh Neheneh Zeh Lo Chaser is only after the fact.<ref><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Tofsot </del>bava kama 20b, Tosfot bava batra 12b, Mordechai bava kama n. 16, Rama CM 363:6, Biur HaGra there, Pitchei Choshen Genevah 8:3. None of the sources quote someone who argues besides the Gra cites the Rosh and disagrees. Either way the Rosh is only potentially allowing it because he is watching the house and helping out but generally he agrees with Tosfot. Nodah Beyehuda CM 24 applies the rule even if the property can’t be sold. Pitchei Choshen discusses that perhaps that’s a difference between Tosfot and Mordechai and the Rama followed the Mordechai.</ref></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># You have the right to prevent anyone from using your property even if you don’t lose if they were to use it. Zeh Neheneh Zeh Lo Chaser is only after the fact.<ref><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Tosfot </ins>bava kama 20b, Tosfot bava batra 12b, Mordechai bava kama n. 16, Rama CM 363:6, Biur HaGra there, Pitchei Choshen Genevah 8:3. None of the sources quote someone who argues besides the Gra cites the Rosh and disagrees. Either way the Rosh is only potentially allowing it because he is watching the house and helping out but generally he agrees with Tosfot. Nodah Beyehuda CM 24 applies the rule even if the property can’t be sold. Pitchei Choshen discusses that perhaps that’s a difference between Tosfot and Mordechai and the Rama followed the Mordechai.</ref></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Cutting Ahead on a Line==</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Cutting Ahead on a Line==</div></td></tr>
</table>Dlhanonhttps://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Being_Careful_With_Other_People%27s_Money&diff=23102&oldid=prevDlhanon: /* Returning Stolen Property */2019-06-02T14:19:51Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Returning Stolen Property</span></span></p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr class="diff-title" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 14:19, 2 June 2019</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l160">Line 160:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 160:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># The money should be given anonymously, so that he does not receive any recognition for his "donation."<ref>Shu"t Igrot Moshe CM 1:88, Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 91 </ref></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># The money should be given anonymously, so that he does not receive any recognition for his "donation."<ref>Shu"t Igrot Moshe CM 1:88, Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 91 </ref></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># One who gives money to the public should pray that his victims benefit from his money to the full extent of what he owes them.<ref> Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 91 </ref></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># One who gives money to the public should pray that his victims benefit from his money to the full extent of what he owes them.<ref> Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 91 </ref></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">===Victim No Longer Living===</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"># If the victim of your theft is no longer living, you must make restitution to his heirs.<Ref>Shulchan Aruch 367:4, Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 91 </ref></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">===If the Thief is no Longer Living===</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"># If the thief is no longer alive and his heirs inherit the item, it is their obligation to return it. If the item is no longer in their possession, they must make restitution from money they inherited from the thief.<ref>Shulchan Aruch CM 361:7, Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 91.</ref></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Zeh Neheneh Zeh Lo Chaser==</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Zeh Neheneh Zeh Lo Chaser==</div></td></tr>
</table>Dlhanonhttps://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Being_Careful_With_Other_People%27s_Money&diff=23101&oldid=prevDlhanon: /* Does not Know who to Repay */2019-06-02T14:09:58Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Does not Know who to Repay</span></span></p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr class="diff-title" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 14:09, 2 June 2019</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l155">Line 155:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 155:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># If one stole from a parent, he must repay them or ask them to explicitly absolve him of payment, and he may not assume that his parents automatically forgive him.<ref>Igrot Moshe CM 1:88, Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 88. </ref></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># If one stole from a parent, he must repay them or ask them to explicitly absolve him of payment, and he may not assume that his parents automatically forgive him.<ref>Igrot Moshe CM 1:88, Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 88. </ref></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Does not Know who to Repay==</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">=</ins>==Does not Know who to Repay<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">=</ins>==</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># If someone steals but does not know exactly who his victims are, he should donate money to a community need that would benefit all his victims.<ref>Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 90 based on Shulchan Aruch CM 366:2 from Gemara BK 94b. Rashi there D"h Borot explains that the reason to donate to community needs is that your victim will benefit from it. [https://www.businesshalacha.com/en/newsletter/public-return see Public Return] by Rabbi Meir Orlian<br></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># If someone steals but does not know exactly who his victims are, he should donate money to a community need that would benefit all his victims.<ref>Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 90 based on Shulchan Aruch CM 366:2 from Gemara BK 94b. Rashi there D"h Borot explains that the reason to donate to community needs is that your victim will benefit from it. [https://www.businesshalacha.com/en/newsletter/public-return see Public Return] by Rabbi Meir Orlian<br></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>see Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 90 where he notes that the stealing isn't really rectified until each victim is rectified, therefore if he knows who he stole from, he should pay them back directly. This is based on Shulchan Aruch 231:19 that somebody who has dishonest measures cannot possibly do proper teshuva. The Sma 231:34 explains that since you cannot really know who you stole from or how much you took, you cannot do a proper teshuva </ref> He should determine how much he stole. If he cannot, he should estimate an amount that equals or exceeds how much he may have stolen.<ref>Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 90 based on Shu"t Igrot Moshe CM 1:88 </ref> For example, if most of his victims live in one community, he should donate to the local mikveh, hatzala, library etc. <ref>Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 91</ref></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>see Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 90 where he notes that the stealing isn't really rectified until each victim is rectified, therefore if he knows who he stole from, he should pay them back directly. This is based on Shulchan Aruch 231:19 that somebody who has dishonest measures cannot possibly do proper teshuva. The Sma 231:34 explains that since you cannot really know who you stole from or how much you took, you cannot do a proper teshuva </ref> He should determine how much he stole. If he cannot, he should estimate an amount that equals or exceeds how much he may have stolen.<ref>Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 90 based on Shu"t Igrot Moshe CM 1:88 </ref> For example, if most of his victims live in one community, he should donate to the local mikveh, hatzala, library etc. <ref>Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 91</ref></div></td></tr>
</table>Dlhanonhttps://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Being_Careful_With_Other_People%27s_Money&diff=23100&oldid=prevDlhanon: /* Returning Stolen Property */2019-06-02T14:08:40Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Returning Stolen Property</span></span></p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr class="diff-title" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 14:08, 2 June 2019</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l154">Line 154:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 154:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>===Stealing from a Parent===</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>===Stealing from a Parent===</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># If one stole from a parent, he must repay them or ask them to explicitly absolve him of payment, and he may not assume that his parents automatically forgive him.<ref>Igrot Moshe CM 1:88, Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 88. </ref></div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># If one stole from a parent, he must repay them or ask them to explicitly absolve him of payment, and he may not assume that his parents automatically forgive him.<ref>Igrot Moshe CM 1:88, Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 88. </ref></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">==Does not Know who to Repay==</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"># If someone steals but does not know exactly who his victims are, he should donate money to a community need that would benefit all his victims.<ref>Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 90 based on Shulchan Aruch CM 366:2 from Gemara BK 94b. Rashi there D"h Borot explains that the reason to donate to community needs is that your victim will benefit from it. [https://www.businesshalacha.com/en/newsletter/public-return see Public Return] by Rabbi Meir Orlian<br></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">see Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 90 where he notes that the stealing isn't really rectified until each victim is rectified, therefore if he knows who he stole from, he should pay them back directly. This is based on Shulchan Aruch 231:19 that somebody who has dishonest measures cannot possibly do proper teshuva. The Sma 231:34 explains that since you cannot really know who you stole from or how much you took, you cannot do a proper teshuva </ref> He should determine how much he stole. If he cannot, he should estimate an amount that equals or exceeds how much he may have stolen.<ref>Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 90 based on Shu"t Igrot Moshe CM 1:88 </ref> For example, if most of his victims live in one community, he should donate to the local mikveh, hatzala, library etc. <ref>Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 91</ref></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"># The money should be given anonymously, so that he does not receive any recognition for his "donation."<ref>Shu"t Igrot Moshe CM 1:88, Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 91 </ref></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"># One who gives money to the public should pray that his victims benefit from his money to the full extent of what he owes them.<ref> Halachos of Other People's Money pg. 91 </ref></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Zeh Neheneh Zeh Lo Chaser==</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Zeh Neheneh Zeh Lo Chaser==</div></td></tr>
</table>Dlhanon