Kiddush: Difference between revisions

##If one doesn't have wine, kiddush should be recited on the bread.<ref>The gemara pesachim 106b says that the amora Rav would sometimes make kiddush on bread if it was more appealing to him then, and sometimes he would make kiddush on wine when it was more appealing to him (depending on what he was in the mood for). This gemara seems to clearly indicate that one may kiddush on either wine or bread, and that one can choose which they prefer. Indeed, the Rambam 29:9 understood the gemara this way, and thus holds that one may make kiddush on bread if they were more in the mood for bread (or if they didn't have wine). Similarly, the Rashbam (pesachim 106b) understood the gemara to be saying that Rav would make kiddush on bread when he was hungry and didn't want to wait longer to start the meal. However, tosfot (s.v. mekadesh) cites the shita of Rabbenu Tam, who thinks that one may not make kiddush on bread. His proof is that the gemara 107a indicates that one may not make havdala on bread, and since kiddush is more strict than havdala, certainly one should not be able to make kiddush on bread [the Rashbam presumably would respond that havdala and kiddush are just not comparable; kiddush is in the context of a meal and so it is reasonable that bread would be valid for kiddush even if it isn't valid for havdala]. He therefore understood the gemara about Rav differently. When it states that Rav would be "מקדש אריפתא" (lit: make kiddush on bread), really it means that he would wash before kiddush and then make kiddush on wine and then immediately after kiddush eat the bread (as opposed to only then going to wash). The Rosh (pesachim 10:17) sides with the Rambam / Rashbam against Rabbenu Tam, and states that this was the psak of all the geonim, as well as the common practice.

 

##If there's no wine available for [[Shabbat]] lunch, one should use [[chamar medina]] for kiddush.<ref>The Gemara Pesachim 107a presents the opinion of Ravina that it is permissible to use [[chamar medina]] for [[havdalah]], as well as Rav Chisda's opinion that [[chamar medina]] may not be used for kiddush and havdalah. The Rosh Pesachim 10:17 argues that since we follow Ravina for havdalah, we also would allow chamar medina for kiddush. The Rambam Shabbat 29:17, however, holds that for havdalah one could use chamar medina but for kiddush one may not. Shulchan Aruch O.C. 272:9 cites the dispute between the Rosh Pesachim and Rambam and sides with the Rosh. Rama also accepts the ruling of the Rosh. Kaf HaChayim 272:50 and Yalkut Yosef 272:16 write that Shulchan Aruch holds like Rosh. </ref>

##If one doesn't even have [[chamar medina]]<ref>As for the definition of chamar medina, Mishna Brurah 272:24 says that even beer is only permitted in a place where it is a common drink. Mishna Brurah 272:25 prohibits the use of milk or oil, and Mishna Brurah 272:30 permits the use of liquor. Rav Avigdor Neventzahl in Biyitzchak Yikare footnote 25 says that according to Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach milk is not allowed even in places where it is commonly used like Switzerland. He also says that juice, tea, or coffee maybe permitted but soda is definitely not because it is just like water. Rav Moshe Feinstein in Iggerot Moshe OC 2:75 defines chamar medina as something you would serve to guests who you want to show respect to. Also see [[Shevet Halevi]] 3:26 and 5:32 where Rav Vosner says even where you have wine, chamar medina can be used because in the times of the gemara, wine was far more widespread. Today however, most people do not drink wine so often so other drinks are not inferior to wine for [[Kiddish|kiddush]].</ref>, one should just say hamotzi and eat the bread.<ref>Shulchan Aruch O.C. 289:2, Mishna Brurah 289:10. The logic behind not using bread for [[kiddish|kiddush]] during the day (but rather using chamar medina) is explained by Mishna Brurah 272:3 (citing the Rosh pesachim 10:17), that if one were to recite the daytime [[kiddish|kiddush]] over bread, it would be the same procedure as if he wasn't saying kiddush at all. Therefore, to make it apparent that we are actually saying [[kiddish|kiddush]], we say a bracha that wouldn't normally be recited, even if that is a [[shehakol]]. </ref>

##If he doesn't even have bread, one may eat without [[Kiddish|kiddush]].<ref>Shulchan Aruch O.C. 289:2. Mishna Brurah 289:10 explains that even though there is a rabbinic prohibition to eat before making kiddush that applies to both the Friday night and shabbat day kiddush, we do not require one to fast if there is nothing available with which to make kiddush, since this would be mevatel the mitvah of oneg shabbat (lit: enjoying shabbat). </ref>

#[[chamar medina|Chamar Medina]]

##Ashkenazim

###One may recite kiddush shabbat day on [[chamar medina]] if one likes that better.<ref>Magen Avraham 272:9</ref>

###If wine is expensive, one may use chamar medina for the daytime [[Kiddish|kiddush]].<ref>Mishna Brurah 272:29 </ref>

####However, one who uses wine is fulfilling a preferred mitzvah.<ref>Mishna Brurah 272:29</ref>

##Sephardim

###One should only use [[chamar medina]] for [[Shabbat]] lunch if wine isn't available in the city and also this [[chamar medina]] is a popular drink in that city.<ref>Chazon Ovadia, Hilchot Shabbat, Chelek 2, Page 124 </ref>  

###If wine is expensive but available, then one should still use wine.<ref>Yalkut Yosef ([[Shabbat]], vol 1, pg 289) </ref>  

#One should not say a bracha acharona after kiddush (made in the context of the meal), even though a reviit of wine was consumed, because saying birkat hamazon at the end of the seuda covers kiddush.