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Hatmana: Difference between revisions
From Halachipedia
I believe it is obvious that since its not hatmana - regarding hatmana it makes no difference whether or not it is on the fire. The original brought up being fully cooked for a daas yachid which is machmir for hatmana purposes, but in truth it must be addressed in regards to shehiya
(In footnote 16 after the long list it says they are all lenient because they are not meant to be totally separate. That doesnt make much sense. It should be corrected.) |
(I believe it is obvious that since its not hatmana - regarding hatmana it makes no difference whether or not it is on the fire. The original brought up being fully cooked for a daas yachid which is machmir for hatmana purposes, but in truth it must be addressed in regards to shehiya) |
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## According to most poskim it is forbidden to insulate a pot before Shabbat if it is on top of another pot which is on the fire.<ref>Kaf Hachaim 258:3 writes based on the Magen Avraham 258:1 that insulating a pot on top of another pot that is on the fire is forbidden even before Shabbat since it is considered like hatmana bdvar hamosif hevel. Mishna Brurah 258:2 agrees. Kaf Hachaim adds that according to the lenient opinion in the Rama 257:7 since there is no issue of shehiya on a pot on top of another pot there's also no issue of hatmana, but that is only if that is the minhag.</ref> | ## According to most poskim it is forbidden to insulate a pot before Shabbat if it is on top of another pot which is on the fire.<ref>Kaf Hachaim 258:3 writes based on the Magen Avraham 258:1 that insulating a pot on top of another pot that is on the fire is forbidden even before Shabbat since it is considered like hatmana bdvar hamosif hevel. Mishna Brurah 258:2 agrees. Kaf Hachaim adds that according to the lenient opinion in the Rama 257:7 since there is no issue of shehiya on a pot on top of another pot there's also no issue of hatmana, but that is only if that is the minhag.</ref> | ||
===Insulating Food within Another Food=== | ===Insulating Food within Another Food=== | ||
# It is permissible to [[insulating food|insulate food]] by submerging it within another food if there is nothing separating between them. <Ref> Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 1:72 </ref> | # It is permissible to [[insulating food|insulate food]] by submerging it within another food if there is nothing separating between them. This is even true when the pot is on the fire, as this does not constitute hatmana at all. When the pot is on the fire one would have to be careful to fulfill the conditions of shehiya.<Ref> Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 1:72 </ref> | ||
# Before [[Shabbat]], one may wrap | # Before [[Shabbat]], one may wrap food in a plastic, nylon, or aluminum bag and submerge it in a pot of hot food (such as chulent). There are those who are stringent if the food is not fully cooked, even if it is not on the fire - so as not to pose a problem of shehiya. Others are stringent regardless.<ref> Chazon Ish 37:32 rules that a vessel inside a pot of hot water doesn’t have an issue of hatmana. Aruch HaShulchan 258:3 and Sh”t Shevet HaLevi 3:47 argue on the Chazon Ish; however, Chazon Ovadyah ([[Shabbat]] 1 pg 62) says one can rely on the Chazon Ish to be lenient, especially if the food is fully cooked (for which Rama 257:7 permits hatmana). Sh”t Shevet HaLevi 8:15(4) says that there is room to be lenient since the bag is only separating between the foods as it would have been hot from the pot nonetheless. Sh”t Vayeshev Moshe (Zanger) O”C 19 adds that the bag or aluminum isn’t a real vessel that separates the food inside it. Rav Shlomo Zalman in Sh”t Minchat Shlomo (2:34(20) in Otsrot Shlomo version), Sh”t LeHorot Natan O”C 12, Kovetz Or Yisrael 5:23, Sh”t Shraga HaMeir 4:63, 6:3, Megilat Sefer on [[Shabbat]] 4:13, Sh”t Kinyan Torah 4:24, Sh”t Az Nidabru 6:78, Sh”t Or Letzion 2:17(13), and Sh”t Maaseh Nisim 163 agree that there’s no hatmana in our case of a food within another food since it’s not meant to be totally separate. | ||
*In the 2nd edition of Shemirat Shabbat Kehilchasa 42:63 he was strict regarding materials that don’t allow liquid through such as plastic, nylon, or aluminum liners inside chulent or crock pots, however in the 3rd edition there’s an explicit retraction in 1:87 quoting Rav Shlomo Zalman to permit in all circumstances. | *In the 2nd edition of Shemirat Shabbat Kehilchasa 42:63 he was strict regarding materials that don’t allow liquid through such as plastic, nylon, or aluminum liners inside chulent or crock pots, however in the 3rd edition there’s an explicit retraction in 1:87 quoting Rav Shlomo Zalman to permit in all circumstances. | ||
*Meor [[Shabbat]] 3 pg 519, and Menuchat Ahavah 1:3(27) are somewhat strict on the issue, the Minhag is to be lenient on this issue.</ref> | *Meor [[Shabbat]] 3 pg 519, and Menuchat Ahavah 1:3(27) are somewhat strict on the issue, the Minhag is to be lenient on this issue.</ref> | ||
