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Hatmana: Difference between revisions
From Halachipedia
Why does footnote 9 have shmiras shabbos khilchasa? It is a straight out halacha in shulchan aruch.
(I don't understand the end of footnote 13. Isn't that obvious. I don't have those two seforim with me. Also it's redundant because thats what the whole footnote is saying) |
(Why does footnote 9 have shmiras shabbos khilchasa? It is a straight out halacha in shulchan aruch.) |
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# Before Shabbat, it is permissible to insulate food with material that preserves heat. This is permitted even during the [[Ben HaShemashot|twilight period]]. However, it is forbidden to insulate food with material that increases heat. Since this is similar to hot ashes, chazal were concerned that one may insulate with glowing hot ashes, and one may come to stoke the coals on [[Shabbat]].<Ref>See Talmud [[Shabbat]] 34b, Rashi at loc, Shulchan Aruch O.C. 257:1</ref> | # Before Shabbat, it is permissible to insulate food with material that preserves heat. This is permitted even during the [[Ben HaShemashot|twilight period]]. However, it is forbidden to insulate food with material that increases heat. Since this is similar to hot ashes, chazal were concerned that one may insulate with glowing hot ashes, and one may come to stoke the coals on [[Shabbat]].<Ref>See Talmud [[Shabbat]] 34b, Rashi at loc, Shulchan Aruch O.C. 257:1</ref> | ||
# On the Sabbat itself it is forbidden to insulate even with material that only preserves heat.<ref>See statement of Rava on Gemara Shabbat 34a</ref> We are concerned that if someone is attentive to the warmth of their pot, they may discover the pot to be too cold and heat it up and/or stoke the coals on Shabbat. This is not a concern during the twilight period as most pots are warm during that time.<ref>Shulchan Aruch 257:1</ref> | # On the Sabbat itself it is forbidden to insulate even with material that only preserves heat.<ref>See statement of Rava on Gemara Shabbat 34a</ref> We are concerned that if someone is attentive to the warmth of their pot, they may discover the pot to be too cold and heat it up and/or stoke the coals on Shabbat. This is not a concern during the twilight period as most pots are warm during that time.<ref>Shulchan Aruch 257:1</ref> | ||
# Before Shabbat, it is permissible to insulate a hot pot with material (e.g. a cloth) that merely preserves the heat. <Ref> Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 1:75 (3rd edition) based on Shulchan Aruch 257:1 and 3.</ref> | # Before Shabbat, it is permissible to insulate a hot pot with material (e.g. a cloth) that merely preserves the heat. <Ref> Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 1:75 (3rd edition) based on Shulchan Aruch 257:1 and 3.</ref> | ||
## This is permissible even if the pot is on another hot pot, as long as they are off the fire.<ref>Shulchan Aruch 258:1, Mishna Brurah 258:2, Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 1:75 </ref> | ## This is permissible even if the pot is on another hot pot, as long as they are off the fire.<ref>Shulchan Aruch 258:1, Mishna Brurah 258:2, Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 1:75 </ref> | ||
## Most poskim agree that if the pot is on a source of heat, it is forbidden to wrap it.<Ref>Shulchan Aruch 257:8 explains that even though covering with a cloth is considered something doesn't preserve the heat, since the pot is top of the fire insulating the pot with the cloth becomes like it is insulated with something that preserves the heat, which is forbidden even on Friday. Mishna Brurah 257:37, Kaf Hachaim 257:40, and Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 1:75 agree.</ref> However, a Sephardic Jew who has such a minhag does not need to stop.<ref> Chazon Ovadia (Shabbat v. 1 p. 56) writes that some are lenient and there is a minhag to be lenient against Shulchan Aruch. | ## Most poskim agree that if the pot is on a source of heat, it is forbidden to wrap it.<Ref>Shulchan Aruch 257:8 explains that even though covering with a cloth is considered something doesn't preserve the heat, since the pot is top of the fire insulating the pot with the cloth becomes like it is insulated with something that preserves the heat, which is forbidden even on Friday. Mishna Brurah 257:37, Kaf Hachaim 257:40, and Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 1:75 agree.</ref> However, a Sephardic Jew who has such a minhag does not need to stop.<ref> Chazon Ovadia (Shabbat v. 1 p. 56) writes that some are lenient and there is a minhag to be lenient against Shulchan Aruch. | ||
* When Hatmana on it’s own doesn’t preserve heat but keeps in heat because of another source (that besides the cover of clothing, the food is on a Garuf or Katum stove) there is a dispute in the Rishonim if there’s an issue of Hatmana with something that preserves heat. Ran ([[Shabbat]] Bameh Tomnin) in name of Rabbenu Yonah and Rashba writes that if the insulation preserves heat because of an external source it is forbidden as Hatmana Dvar Hamosif Hevel because this insulation shows one is concerned about keeping the food warm. However, the Ramban permits if the Hatmana is done with permitted material and the Shehiyah (leaving food on a covered stove from before [[Shabbat]]) is done in a permitted way because these are two separate Gezerahs (the Gemara 47b which seemingly prohibits putting an insulated pot on a permitted stove is only forbidden because the food is put directly on the coals but if there’s a space of air in between the coals and the food it’d be permitted.) Ran (22a s.v. VeMinhagenu), Nemukei Yosef (Lo Yachpor), Rabbenu Yerucham (pg 68c), and Meiri ([[Shabbat]] Perek Kirah pg 142 s.v. Zu Hiy) write that the Minhag is like the Ramban's explanation. Ritva 47b mentions the Ramban and adds that some are strict to make a separation between the clothing and the pot (as that’s not the usual way to insulate) but concludes that he prefers a different stringency which is putting the pot on top of a cover that separates between the pot and stove. S”A 257:8 rules even though Shehiyah is permitted in certain cases (see S”A 253) if the pot is covered with clothes even though it is a material that doesn’t preserve heat it’s forbidden to be left on the fire. | * When Hatmana on it’s own doesn’t preserve heat but keeps in heat because of another source (that besides the cover of clothing, the food is on a Garuf or Katum stove) there is a dispute in the Rishonim if there’s an issue of Hatmana with something that preserves heat. Ran ([[Shabbat]] Bameh Tomnin) in name of Rabbenu Yonah and Rashba writes that if the insulation preserves heat because of an external source it is forbidden as Hatmana Dvar Hamosif Hevel because this insulation shows one is concerned about keeping the food warm. However, the Ramban permits if the Hatmana is done with permitted material and the Shehiyah (leaving food on a covered stove from before [[Shabbat]]) is done in a permitted way because these are two separate Gezerahs (the Gemara 47b which seemingly prohibits putting an insulated pot on a permitted stove is only forbidden because the food is put directly on the coals but if there’s a space of air in between the coals and the food it’d be permitted.) Ran (22a s.v. VeMinhagenu), Nemukei Yosef (Lo Yachpor), Rabbenu Yerucham (pg 68c), and Meiri ([[Shabbat]] Perek Kirah pg 142 s.v. Zu Hiy) write that the Minhag is like the Ramban's explanation. Ritva 47b mentions the Ramban and adds that some are strict to make a separation between the clothing and the pot (as that’s not the usual way to insulate) but concludes that he prefers a different stringency which is putting the pot on top of a cover that separates between the pot and stove. S”A 257:8 rules even though Shehiyah is permitted in certain cases (see S”A 253) if the pot is covered with clothes even though it is a material that doesn’t preserve heat it’s forbidden to be left on the fire. | ||
* Sh”t Chut MeShulash 8, Shaarei Yeshua 5:8, and Sh”t Divrei Moshe 64 say that the Minhag has what to rely on even though S”A was strict. Sh”t Zechur LeYitzchak 74 pg 113b brings the opinion of Maharar Moshe Ben Chaviv who says the Minhag has what to rely on based on the Ramban and the opinions that there’s no issue of Hatmana if the food is [[cooking]] for [[Shabbat]] day; nonetheless, Zechur LeYitzchak suggests that since the Minhag predates S”A it can continue, but concludes that one should be strict like S”A. Eretz Chaim 257, Memei Shlomo 257, Sh”t Yaskil Avdi 3:10(4:7), Gedolei Tzion 9:11 also quote the Maharar Ben Chaviv and Chazon Ovadyah ([[Shabbat]] 1 pg 56; as in Sh”t Yabia Omer O”C 6:33) conclude that one can be lenient. Halacha Brurah 257:29 writes that one doesn't need to stop someone who is lenient since there is what to rely upon.</ref> | * Sh”t Chut MeShulash 8, Shaarei Yeshua 5:8, and Sh”t Divrei Moshe 64 say that the Minhag has what to rely on even though S”A was strict. Sh”t Zechur LeYitzchak 74 pg 113b brings the opinion of Maharar Moshe Ben Chaviv who says the Minhag has what to rely on based on the Ramban and the opinions that there’s no issue of Hatmana if the food is [[cooking]] for [[Shabbat]] day; nonetheless, Zechur LeYitzchak suggests that since the Minhag predates S”A it can continue, but concludes that one should be strict like S”A. Eretz Chaim 257, Memei Shlomo 257, Sh”t Yaskil Avdi 3:10(4:7), Gedolei Tzion 9:11 also quote the Maharar Ben Chaviv and Chazon Ovadyah ([[Shabbat]] 1 pg 56; as in Sh”t Yabia Omer O”C 6:33) conclude that one can be lenient. Halacha Brurah 257:29 writes that one doesn't need to stop someone who is lenient since there is what to rely upon.</ref> | ||
## Even in this case - when the pot is on a source of heat, one may place a wide tray on top of the pot and put the cloth over the tray. In this way the cloth will not touch the sides of the pot and therefore | ## Even in this case - when the pot is on a source of heat, one may place a wide tray on top of the pot and put the cloth over the tray. In this way the cloth will not touch the sides of the pot and is therefore permitted.<ref> The Tur 257:8 adds in the name of his father, the Rosh, that if the clothes aren’t touching the pot, it is not the normal way to do hatmana and is permitted. Thus, Shulchan Aruch 257:8 rules that as long as the pot isn’t touching the coals, so that it is a permissible shehiyah, one may put a tray on top of the pot with a cloth on top of it. In this way the cloth doesn’t touch the sides of the pot and is thus not hatmana. Minchat Cohen (Mishmeret [[Shabbat]] 8) explains that S”A requires both requirements: 1) the pot doesn’t touch the coals and 2) the clothes don’t touch the sides of the pot. Shemirat Shabbat Kehilchata 1:76 accepts this.</ref> | ||
## According to most poskim it is forbidden to insulate a pot before Shabbat if it is on top of another pot which is on the fire.<ref>Kaf Hachaim 258:3 writes based on the Magen Avraham 258:1 that insulating a pot on top of another pot that is on the fire is forbidden even before Shabbat since it is considered like hatmana bdvar hamosif hevel. Mishna Brurah 258:2 agrees. Kaf Hachaim adds that according to the lenient opinion in the Rama 257:7 since there is no issue of shehiya on a pot on top of another pot there's also no issue of hatmana, but that is only if that is the minhag.</ref> | ## According to most poskim it is forbidden to insulate a pot before Shabbat if it is on top of another pot which is on the fire.<ref>Kaf Hachaim 258:3 writes based on the Magen Avraham 258:1 that insulating a pot on top of another pot that is on the fire is forbidden even before Shabbat since it is considered like hatmana bdvar hamosif hevel. Mishna Brurah 258:2 agrees. Kaf Hachaim adds that according to the lenient opinion in the Rama 257:7 since there is no issue of shehiya on a pot on top of another pot there's also no issue of hatmana, but that is only if that is the minhag.</ref> | ||
===Food in Other Food=== | ===Food in Other Food=== | ||
