Taking Interest - Revision history

Unknown user: Text replacement - " Biblical" to " biblical"

2020-12-03T02:30:40Z

Text replacement - " Biblical" to " biblical"

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:30, 3 December 2020
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	The laws of interest are one of the most complex and relevant laws in today's economy and even in everyday life. See the numerous pages below for the details of arranging loans in a permitted fashion.		The laws of interest are one of the most complex and relevant laws in today's economy and even in everyday life. See the numerous pages below for the details of arranging loans in a permitted fashion.
	*[[Categories of Ribbit]]: This page includes		*[[Categories of Ribbit]]: This page includes
	**the definitions of ~~Biblical~~ and rabbinic interest,		**the definitions of biblical and rabbinic interest,
	**legal subterfuge sometimes which is permitted and sometimes forbidden,		**legal subterfuge sometimes which is permitted and sometimes forbidden,
	**the laws of interest on rentals,		**the laws of interest on rentals,

Unknown user at 02:15, 8 July 2020

2020-07-08T02:15:49Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:15, 8 July 2020
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	The laws of interest are one of the most complex and relevant laws in today's economy and even in everyday life. See the numerous pages below for the details of arranging loans in a permitted fashion.		The laws of interest are one of the most complex and relevant laws in today's economy and even in everyday life. See the numerous pages below for the details of arranging loans in a permitted fashion.
	{\|
	!
	*[[Categories of Ribbit]]: This page includes		*[[Categories of Ribbit]]: This page includes
	**the definitions of Biblical and rabbinic interest,		**the definitions of Biblical and rabbinic interest,
Line 35:		Line 33:
	**return policies,		**return policies,
	**and after the fact transactions established with interest.		**and after the fact transactions established with interest.
	*
	!
	*[[Guaranteed Low Prices]]: This page deals with the topic of		*[[Guaranteed Low Prices]]: This page deals with the topic of
	**paying for goods with a delayed delivery,		**paying for goods with a delayed delivery,
Line 72:		Line 68:
	*[[Heter Iska]]		*[[Heter Iska]]
	**In order to make any loan with interest, which is standard in today's economy, a person needs to sign a heter iska to effectively change the contract from a loan into a partial or complete business deal. The halachot are complex and must be done with an official heter iska documents or reviewed by a rabbi.		**In order to make any loan with interest, which is standard in today's economy, a person needs to sign a heter iska to effectively change the contract from a loan into a partial or complete business deal. The halachot are complex and must be done with an official heter iska documents or reviewed by a rabbi.
	\|}

	**

	==Links==		==Links==

Unknown user at 22:29, 7 July 2020

2020-07-07T22:29:38Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:29, 7 July 2020
Line 1:		Line 1:
	The laws of interest are one of the most complex and relevant laws in today's economy and even in everyday life. See the numerous pages below for the details of arranging loans in a permitted fashion.		The laws of interest are one of the most complex and relevant laws in today's economy and even in everyday life. See the numerous pages below for the details of arranging loans in a permitted fashion.
	* [[Categories of Ribbit]]: This page includes		{\|
	** the definitions of Biblical and rabbinic interest,		!
	** legal subterfuge sometimes which is permitted and sometimes forbidden,		*[[Categories of Ribbit]]: This page includes
	** the laws of interest on rentals,		**the definitions of Biblical and rabbinic interest,
	** whether it be renting real estate or or utensils,		**legal subterfuge sometimes which is permitted and sometimes forbidden,
	** interest for worker salaries,		**the laws of interest on rentals,
	** lending objects,		**whether it be renting real estate or or utensils,
	** returning stolen money,		**interest for worker salaries,
	** interest with a loan of land or documents,		**lending objects,
	** forgiving interest,		**returning stolen money,
	** ribbit for [[pikuach nefesh]],		**interest with a loan of land or documents,
	** taking interest temporarily,		**forgiving interest,
	** and giving interest to benefit the lender.		**ribbit for [[pikuach nefesh]],
	* [[Interest with Non-Jews]]: This page includes		**taking interest temporarily,
	** the laws of interest with a non-Jew, convert, non-religious Jew,		**and giving interest to benefit the lender.
	** lending between several parties some of which are Jewish and some non-Jewish,		*[[Interest with Non-Jews]]: This page includes
	** Jewish agent for interest deals, debt equity,		**the laws of interest with a non-Jew, convert, non-religious Jew,
	** managing someone else's money,		**lending between several parties some of which are Jewish and some non-Jewish,
	** as well as guarantors and co-signers.		**Jewish agent for interest deals, debt equity,
	* [[When Is It Permitted to Benefit the Lender]]: This page covers		**managing someone else's money,
	** the topics of gifts or favors from the borrower to the lender,		**as well as guarantors and co-signers.
	** whether it be monetary or non-monetary, or even mitzvah opportunities.		*[[When Is It Permitted to Benefit the Lender]]: This page covers
	** It also relates to a lender benefiting from a borrow's property,		**the topics of gifts or favors from the borrower to the lender,
	** hiring or giving business to the lender,		**whether it be monetary or non-monetary, or even mitzvah opportunities.
	** right of first refusal,		**It also relates to a lender benefiting from a borrow's property,
	** paying taxes, fees, or debt for the lender.		**hiring or giving business to the lender,
	** Payments to or from a third party are a separate discussion on this page as well.		**right of first refusal,
	* [[Buying on Credit]]: This page discusses all of the details of		**paying taxes, fees, or debt for the lender.
	** discounts for buying on credit such as subscriptions, early bird specials, or prepayments,		**Payments to or from a third party are a separate discussion on this page as well.
	** benefiting the seller,		*[[Buying on Credit]]: This page discusses all of the details of
	** contracts with a delivery company,		**discounts for buying on credit such as subscriptions, early bird specials, or prepayments,
	** return policies,		**benefiting the seller,
	** and after the fact transactions established with interest.		**contracts with a delivery company,
	* [[Guaranteed Low Prices]]: This page deals with the topic of		**return policies,
	** paying for goods with a delayed delivery,		**and after the fact transactions established with interest.
	** future contracts of commodities,		*
	** and a purchase of a service in advance without assuming risk.		!
	* [[Penalty Clauses]]: This page is dedicated to		*[[Guaranteed Low Prices]]: This page deals with the topic of
	** penalties and late fees those which are permitted and those which are forbidden as interest.		**paying for goods with a delayed delivery,
	* [[Borrowing Commodities]]: This page deals with		**future contracts of commodities,
	** borrowing commodities.		**and a purchase of a service in advance without assuming risk.
	** such as if you want to borrow a bag of flour or dozen eggs from your neighbor.		*[[Penalty Clauses]]: This page is dedicated to
	** Lending commodities as part of a work contract is also discussed here.		**penalties and late fees those which are permitted and those which are forbidden as interest.
	* [[Returning Interest That Was Wrongly Collected]]:		*[[Borrowing Commodities]]: This page deals with
	** What to do with interest that was collected by accident or intentionally and now needs to be returned.		**borrowing commodities.
	** Biblical vs Rabbinic interest		**such as if you want to borrow a bag of flour or dozen eggs from your neighbor.
	* [[Corporations and Partnerships]]:		**Lending commodities as part of a work contract is also discussed here.
	** A classic iska with all of the terms and conditions are documented here.		*[[Returning Interest That Was Wrongly Collected]]:
	* [[Financial Tools and Interest]]		**What to do with interest that was collected by accident or intentionally and now needs to be returned.
	* [[Foreign Currency and Interest]]		**Biblical vs Rabbinic interest
	* [[Common Everyday Cases of Interest]]: Some of the common questions dealt with on this page include: ~~borrowing~~ someone's credit card.		*[[Corporations and Partnerships]]:
	* [[Heter Iska]]		**A classic iska with all of the terms and conditions are documented here.
			*[[Financial Tools and Interest]]:
			**Stocks,
			**Merchant cash advance,
			**Annuity,
			**Selling a loan
			*[[Foreign Currency and Interest]]
			**Lending or Trading Foreign Currency
			**Purchasing a Commodity with One Currency and Repaying with Another
			*[[Common Everyday Cases of Interest]]: Some of the common questions dealt with on this page include:
			**Borrowing someone's credit card.
			**Keeping the Change when Repaying,
			**Selling a Check,
			**Exchanging Favors,
			**Family Members Lending,
			**Loans of Small Amounts,
			**Early Bird Specials,
			**Car Loans, and
			**Opening an Account at an Israeli Bank
			*[[Heter Iska]]
			**In order to make any loan with interest, which is standard in today's economy, a person needs to sign a heter iska to effectively change the contract from a loan into a partial or complete business deal. The halachot are complex and must be done with an official heter iska documents or reviewed by a rabbi.
			\|}

			**

	==Links==		==Links==
	# [http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/826799/Rabbi_Hershel_Schachter/Ribbis Ribbis] by Rabbi Hershel Schachter
	# [http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/773692/Rabbi_Yona_Reiss/Contemporary_Issues_in_Hilchos_Ribbis Contemporary Issues in Hilchos Ribbis] by Rabbi Yona Reiss		#[http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/826799/Rabbi_Hershel_Schachter/Ribbis Ribbis] by Rabbi Hershel Schachter
			#[http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/773692/Rabbi_Yona_Reiss/Contemporary_Issues_in_Hilchos_Ribbis Contemporary Issues in Hilchos Ribbis] by Rabbi Yona Reiss

Unknown user at 03:02, 7 July 2020

2020-07-07T03:02:55Z

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 The laws of interest are one of the most complex and relevant laws in today's economy and even in everyday life. See the numerous pages below for the details of arranging loans in a permitted fashion.
-* [[Categories of Ribbit]]: This page includes the definitions of Biblical and rabbinic interest, legal subterfuge sometimes which is permitted and sometimes forbidden, the laws of interest on rentals, whether it be renting real estate or or utensils, interest for worker salaries, lending objects, returning stolen money, interest with a loan of land or documents, forgiving interest, ribbit for [[pikuach nefesh]], taking interest temporarily, and giving interest to benefit the lender.
+* [[Categories of Ribbit]]: This page includes
-* [[Interest with Non-Jews]]: This page includes the laws of interest with a non-Jew, convert, non-religious Jew,  lending between several parties some of which are Jewish and some non-Jewish, Jewish agent for interest deals, debt equity, managing someone else's money, and guarantors and co-signers.
+** the definitions of Biblical and rabbinic interest,
-* [[When Is It Permitted to Benefit the Lender]]: This page covers the topics of gifts or favors from the borrower to the lender, whether it be monetary or non-monetary, and a mitzvah opportunity. It also relates to a lender benefiting from a borrow's property, hiring or giving business to the lender, right of first refusal, paying taxes, fees, or debt for the lender. Payments to or from a third party are a separate discussion on this page as well.
+** legal subterfuge sometimes which is permitted and sometimes forbidden,
-* [[Buying on Credit]]: This page discusses all of the details of discounts for buying on credit such as subscriptions and early bird specials, prepayments, benefiting the seller, contracts with a delivery company, return policies, and after the fact transactions established with interest.
+** the laws of interest on rentals,
-* [[Guaranteed Low Prices]]: This page deals with the topic of paying for goods with a delayed delivery, future contracts of commodities, and a purchase of a service in advance without assuming risk.
+** whether it be renting real estate or or utensils,
-* [[Penalty Clauses]]: This page is dedicated to penalties and late fees those which are permitted and those which are forbidden as interest.
+** interest for worker salaries,
-* [[Borrowing Commodities]]: This page deals with borrowing commodities. For example, if you want to borrow a bag of flour or dozen eggs from your neighbor it involves rabbinic interest since the price could fluctuate in between the borrowing and return. Lending commodities as part of a work contract is also discussed here.
+** lending objects,
-* [[Returning Interest That Was Wrongly Collected]]: The process of interest that was collected by accident or intentionally and now needs to be returned is described in detail on this page.
+** returning stolen money,
-* [[Corporations and Partnerships]]: A classic iska with all of the terms and conditions are documented here.
+** interest with a loan of land or documents,
 * [[Financial Tools and Interest]]
 * [[Foreign Currency and Interest]]

Unknown user at 22:30, 6 July 2020

2020-07-06T22:30:32Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:30, 6 July 2020
Line 1:		Line 1:
	The laws of interest are one of the most complex and relevant laws in today's economy and even in everyday life. See the numerous pages below for the details of arranging loans in a permitted fashion.		The laws of interest are one of the most complex and relevant laws in today's economy and even in everyday life. See the numerous pages below for the details of arranging loans in a permitted fashion.
	* [[Categories of Ribbit]]		* [[Categories of Ribbit]]: This page includes the definitions of Biblical and rabbinic interest, legal subterfuge sometimes which is permitted and sometimes forbidden, the laws of interest on rentals, whether it be renting real estate or or utensils, interest for worker salaries, lending objects, returning stolen money, interest with a loan of land or documents, forgiving interest, ribbit for [[pikuach nefesh]], taking interest temporarily, and giving interest to benefit the lender.
	* [[Interest with Non-Jews]]		* [[Interest with Non-Jews]]: This page includes the laws of interest with a non-Jew, convert, non-religious Jew, lending between several parties some of which are Jewish and some non-Jewish, Jewish agent for interest deals, debt equity, managing someone else's money, and guarantors and co-signers.
	* [[When Is It Permitted to Benefit the Lender]]		* [[When Is It Permitted to Benefit the Lender]]: This page covers the topics of gifts or favors from the borrower to the lender, whether it be monetary or non-monetary, and a mitzvah opportunity. It also relates to a lender benefiting from a borrow's property, hiring or giving business to the lender, right of first refusal, paying taxes, fees, or debt for the lender. Payments to or from a third party are a separate discussion on this page as well.
	* [[Buying on Credit]]		* [[Buying on Credit]]: This page discusses all of the details of discounts for buying on credit such as subscriptions and early bird specials, prepayments, benefiting the seller, contracts with a delivery company, return policies, and after the fact transactions established with interest.
	* [[Guaranteed Low Prices]]		* [[Guaranteed Low Prices]]: This page deals with the topic of paying for goods with a delayed delivery, future contracts of commodities, and a purchase of a service in advance without assuming risk.
	* [[Penalty Clauses]]		* [[Penalty Clauses]]: This page is dedicated to penalties and late fees those which are permitted and those which are forbidden as interest.
	* [[Borrowing Commodities]]		* [[Borrowing Commodities]]: This page deals with borrowing commodities. For example, if you want to borrow a bag of flour or dozen eggs from your neighbor it involves rabbinic interest since the price could fluctuate in between the borrowing and return. Lending commodities as part of a work contract is also discussed here.
	* [[Returning Interest That Was Wrongly Collected]]		* [[Returning Interest That Was Wrongly Collected]]: The process of interest that was collected by accident or intentionally and now needs to be returned is described in detail on this page.
	* [[Corporations and Partnerships]]		* [[Corporations and Partnerships]]: A classic iska with all of the terms and conditions are documented here.
	* [[Financial Tools and Interest]]		* [[Financial Tools and Interest]]
	* [[Foreign Currency and Interest]]		* [[Foreign Currency and Interest]]
	* [[Common Everyday Cases of Interest]]		* [[Common Everyday Cases of Interest]]: Some of the common questions dealt with on this page include: borrowing someone's credit card.
	* [[Heter Iska]]		* [[Heter Iska]]

YitzchakSultan: Replaced content with "The laws of interest are one of the most complex and relevant laws in today's economy and even in everyday life. See the numerous pages below for the details of arranging..."

2020-03-17T21:35:27Z

Replaced content with "The laws of interest are one of the most complex and relevant laws in today's economy and even in everyday life. See the numerous pages below for the details of arranging..."

Show changes

YitzchakSultan: /* Sources */

2020-03-17T21:12:00Z

Sources

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:12, 17 March 2020
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	==Sources==		==Sources==
	<references/>		<references/>
	[[Category:~~Business Halacha~~]]		[[Category:Ribbit]]

YitzchakSultan at 21:11, 17 March 2020

2020-03-17T21:11:35Z

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-Lending money on interest is one of the more severe prohibitions in the torah. <ref> The Gemara BM 71a says that one who lends with interest becomes poor and never recovers. The Rambam Hilchot Malveh Viloveh 4:2 delineates six biblical prohibitions which could potentially be violated in any particular loan transaction. Ramban Sefer Hamitzvot Shoresh 6 adds a 7th. </ref> The lender, the borrower, the guarantor, the witnesses, and even the scribe violate when engaging in an interest-bearing loan. <ref> Mishna Bava Metzia 75b. Shulchan Aruch YD 160:1</ref>
+* [[Categories of Ribbit]]
 ==Basics==
 # In any case where a person owes a debt to another Jew whether it is because he borrowed money or because he hired him and owes him or because he rented something and didn’t pay yet, it is forbidden to pay more than the actual debt because of the prohibition of taking interest. <Ref>S”A Y”D 176:6, Rama Y”D 161:1, The gemara Bava Metsia 63b explains that as long as one is paying extra to be able to hold the money for longer, it would be a violation of this prohibition. </ref>

YitzchakSultan: /* Lending with Interest with a Non-Jewish Agent using a Security Deposit */

2020-03-17T20:43:50Z

Lending with Interest with a Non-Jewish Agent using a Security Deposit

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:43, 17 March 2020
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	===Lending with Interest with a Non-Jewish Agent using a Security Deposit===		===Lending with Interest with a Non-Jewish Agent using a Security Deposit===
			[[Image:Taking Mashkon from Non-Jew.png\|300px\|right]]
			[[Image:Returning Mashkon to Non-Jew.png\| 350px\| right]]
	# Some permit borrowing from a non-Jew with a security deposit so that they can in turn borrow with interest from another Jew with that security deposit. This is permitted since the non-Jew takes responsibility for the original loan and it is treated as two loans and not one. Ashkenazim can rely on this opinion.<ref>Ri cited by Rosh b"m 5:55, Rosh responsa 108:11, Rama 168:8 seems to support this approach. Darkei Moshe 168:4 quotes the Mordechai and Hagahot Ashri who held that it is permitted even initially. Darkei Moshe 168:9 cites the Kol Bo 84 and Hagahot Maimoniyot Malveh 5:3 who says that the minhag was like the Ri</ref> Others hold that generally this is forbidden to arrange but if one explicitly tells the non-Jew that he has responsibility for the loan then it is permitted.<ref>Ramban b"m 71b s.v. vbar cited by Tur 168:9, Rashba 7:321, Nemukei Yosef 42a, Talmidei Harashba, and Baal Hatrumot 46:4:10 cited by Bet Yosef 168:9</ref>		# Some permit borrowing from a non-Jew with a security deposit so that they can in turn borrow with interest from another Jew with that security deposit. This is permitted since the non-Jew takes responsibility for the original loan and it is treated as two loans and not one. Ashkenazim can rely on this opinion.<ref>Ri cited by Rosh b"m 5:55, Rosh responsa 108:11, Rama 168:8 seems to support this approach. Darkei Moshe 168:4 quotes the Mordechai and Hagahot Ashri who held that it is permitted even initially. Darkei Moshe 168:9 cites the Kol Bo 84 and Hagahot Maimoniyot Malveh 5:3 who says that the minhag was like the Ri</ref> Others hold that generally this is forbidden to arrange but if one explicitly tells the non-Jew that he has responsibility for the loan then it is permitted.<ref>Ramban b"m 71b s.v. vbar cited by Tur 168:9, Rashba 7:321, Nemukei Yosef 42a, Talmidei Harashba, and Baal Hatrumot 46:4:10 cited by Bet Yosef 168:9</ref>
	# Even according to the strict opinion, a lender to a non-Jew with interest who collected a deposit from him which came originally from a Jew can collect the interest as long as he isn't certain that it was arranged improperly.<ref>Ri, Rosh, Shulchan Aruch 168:9</ref> Some say that he may not collect the interest if he knew that it was a Jewish security deposit such as if it is a Jewish article of clothing.<ref>Tur 189:9, Shulchan Aruch 168:9. Bet Yosef 168:9 s.v. yisrael shnatan notes that the Mordechai 338 held within the opinion of Rabbenu Tam that it doesn't matter whether the deposit was clearly Jewish or not.</ref>		# Even according to the strict opinion, a lender to a non-Jew with interest who collected a deposit from him which came originally from a Jew can collect the interest as long as he isn't certain that it was arranged improperly.<ref>Ri, Rosh, Shulchan Aruch 168:9</ref> Some say that he may not collect the interest if he knew that it was a Jewish security deposit such as if it is a Jewish article of clothing.<ref>Tur 189:9, Shulchan Aruch 168:9. Bet Yosef 168:9 s.v. yisrael shnatan notes that the Mordechai 338 held within the opinion of Rabbenu Tam that it doesn't matter whether the deposit was clearly Jewish or not.</ref>

YitzchakSultan: /* Lending with Interest with a Non-Jewish Agent using a Security Deposit */

2020-03-17T19:53:50Z

Lending with Interest with a Non-Jewish Agent using a Security Deposit

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:53, 17 March 2020
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	* Netivot Shalom 168:7:6 writes that the Teshuvat Ri doesn't imply like the Derisha at all. Netivot Shalom 168:7:6 reads the Bet Yosef in accordance with the Derisha. However, the Chelkat Binyamin (168 Tziyunim 136) argues that the Bet Yosef held like the Shach.</ref> Sephardim are more strict and only allow this completely after the fact that the interest was collected.<ref>Horah Brurah 168:31. There he mentions the idea that the Bet Yosef suggests which is if the lender doesn't know from witnesses that the borrower appointed the non-Jew to be his agent and the borrower himself since he didn't appoint the non-Jew then the lender could collect the interest. Horah Brurah concludes that one may only rely upon this after the fact.</ref>		* Netivot Shalom 168:7:6 writes that the Teshuvat Ri doesn't imply like the Derisha at all. Netivot Shalom 168:7:6 reads the Bet Yosef in accordance with the Derisha. However, the Chelkat Binyamin (168 Tziyunim 136) argues that the Bet Yosef held like the Shach.</ref> Sephardim are more strict and only allow this completely after the fact that the interest was collected.<ref>Horah Brurah 168:31. There he mentions the idea that the Bet Yosef suggests which is if the lender doesn't know from witnesses that the borrower appointed the non-Jew to be his agent and the borrower himself since he didn't appoint the non-Jew then the lender could collect the interest. Horah Brurah concludes that one may only rely upon this after the fact.</ref>
	# If a Jew told a non-Jew to borrow for him from another non-Jew with interest and he went and borrowed from a Jew with interest the borrower can even pay the interest.<ref>Mordechai b"m 337, Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 168:8. Shach 168:19 and Taz 168:9 argue that just like the lender can collect the interest the borrower can pay it. However, it appears from the Bet Yosef that only the lender can collect it but it is forbidden for the lender to collect it. Horah Brurah 168:34 follows the Shach and Taz that if the non-Jew didn't follow the orders of the borrower it is then permitted for both the lender and borrower to exchange the interest at the end.</ref>		# If a Jew told a non-Jew to borrow for him from another non-Jew with interest and he went and borrowed from a Jew with interest the borrower can even pay the interest.<ref>Mordechai b"m 337, Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 168:8. Shach 168:19 and Taz 168:9 argue that just like the lender can collect the interest the borrower can pay it. However, it appears from the Bet Yosef that only the lender can collect it but it is forbidden for the lender to collect it. Horah Brurah 168:34 follows the Shach and Taz that if the non-Jew didn't follow the orders of the borrower it is then permitted for both the lender and borrower to exchange the interest at the end.</ref>
			===Non-Jew borrowing with Interest from a Jew through a Jewish Agent===
			# If a non-Jew asks a Jew to borrow for him from another Jew with interest the Jewish agent may do his job as long as he says clearly that he is borrowing with interest on behalf of a non-Jew or the transaction is happening in the presence of the non-Jew.<ref>Ran b"m 71b s.v. mahu, Nemukei Yosef 42a, Hagaot Ashri 5:42, Rosh responsa 108:5, Raavan 103, and Smak 260 all cited by Bet Yosef 168:13. Baal Hatrumot 46:4:10 citing Ramban b"m 71b s.v. vgoy explains that even though the Jewish agent can't halachically become the agent of the non-Jew since there's no agency for non-Jews, the Jewish agent can be the agent of the lender.</ref>

	===Lending with Interest with a Non-Jewish Agent using a Security Deposit===		===Lending with Interest with a Non-Jewish Agent using a Security Deposit===
	# Some permit borrowing from a non-Jew with a security deposit so that they can in turn borrow with interest from another Jew with that security deposit. This is permitted since the non-Jew takes responsibility for the original loan and it is treated as two loans and not one. Ashkenazim can rely on this opinion.<ref>Ri cited by Rosh b"m 5:55, Rosh responsa 108:11, Rama 168:8 seems to support this approach. Darkei Moshe 168:4 quotes the Mordechai and Hagahot Ashri who held that it is permitted even initially. Darkei Moshe 168:9 cites the Kol Bo 84 and Hagahot Maimoniyot Malveh 5:3 who says that the minhag was like the Ri</ref> Others hold that generally this is forbidden to arrange but if one explicitly tells the non-Jew that he has responsibility for the loan then it is permitted.<ref>Ramban b"m 71b s.v. vbar cited by Tur 168:9, Rashba 7:321, Nemukei Yosef 42a, Talmidei Harashba, and Baal Hatrumot 46:4:10 cited by Bet Yosef 168:9</ref>		# Some permit borrowing from a non-Jew with a security deposit so that they can in turn borrow with interest from another Jew with that security deposit. This is permitted since the non-Jew takes responsibility for the original loan and it is treated as two loans and not one. Ashkenazim can rely on this opinion.<ref>Ri cited by Rosh b"m 5:55, Rosh responsa 108:11, Rama 168:8 seems to support this approach. Darkei Moshe 168:4 quotes the Mordechai and Hagahot Ashri who held that it is permitted even initially. Darkei Moshe 168:9 cites the Kol Bo 84 and Hagahot Maimoniyot Malveh 5:3 who says that the minhag was like the Ri</ref> Others hold that generally this is forbidden to arrange but if one explicitly tells the non-Jew that he has responsibility for the loan then it is permitted.<ref>Ramban b"m 71b s.v. vbar cited by Tur 168:9, Rashba 7:321, Nemukei Yosef 42a, Talmidei Harashba, and Baal Hatrumot 46:4:10 cited by Bet Yosef 168:9</ref>
	# Even according to the strict opinion, a lender to a non-Jew with interest who collected a deposit from him which came originally from a Jew can collect the interest as long as he isn't certain that it was arranged improperly.<ref>Ri, Rosh, Shulchan Aruch 168:9</ref> Some say that he may not collect the interest if he knew that it was a Jewish security deposit such as if it is a Jewish article of clothing.<ref>Tur 189:9, Shulchan Aruch 168:9. Bet Yosef 168:9 s.v. yisrael shnatan notes that the Mordechai 338 held within the opinion of Rabbenu Tam that it doesn't matter whether the deposit was clearly Jewish or not.</ref>		# Even according to the strict opinion, a lender to a non-Jew with interest who collected a deposit from him which came originally from a Jew can collect the interest as long as he isn't certain that it was arranged improperly.<ref>Ri, Rosh, Shulchan Aruch 168:9</ref> Some say that he may not collect the interest if he knew that it was a Jewish security deposit such as if it is a Jewish article of clothing.<ref>Tur 189:9, Shulchan Aruch 168:9. Bet Yosef 168:9 s.v. yisrael shnatan notes that the Mordechai 338 held within the opinion of Rabbenu Tam that it doesn't matter whether the deposit was clearly Jewish or not.</ref>
	# If the original Jew wants to get his security deposit back from the other Jew who lent to the non-Jew and the non-Jew isn't cooperating, the lender Jew doesn't need to work with the borrower Jew since they didn't have any transaction one to another.<ref>Rosh responsa 108:8</ref>		# If the original Jew wants to get his security deposit back from the other Jew who lent to the non-Jew and the non-Jew isn't cooperating, the lender Jew doesn't need to work with the borrower Jew since they didn't have any transaction one to another.<ref>Rosh responsa 108:8, Rama 168:9</ref>
			# If a Jew has a security deposit of a non-Jew in his hands and the non-Jew direct him to use it to borrow from another Jew with interest on his behalf, the first Jew may do so.<ref>Mordechai 337 writes that a Jew can use a non-Jew's security deposit to borrow from a Jew with interest if he is instructed so by the non-Jew. The Mordechai seems to apply this even to the case where the Jew didn't have the non-Jew's deposit but instead wanted to gift him a deposit of his own for its value. The Bet Yosef is troubled by this leniency since there's no mechanism by which the non-Jew is actually acquiring the deposit. Taz 168:14 gives a nuanced explanation that it was sold to the second Jew with a condition that the non-Jew could buy it back. Bach 168:13 and Nekudat Hakesef 168:11 explain that once a owner admits to the fact someone else owns his item it halachically belongs to that person (''kinyan odita'') and that is sufficient to remove the prohibition of ribbit. Either way, the Rama 169:11 concludes that we assume that it is impossible to gift a deposit to a non-Jew without him making a physical [[kinyan]] such as meshicha.</ref>
	====Non-Jew Selling Jewish Debt====		====Non-Jew Selling Jewish Debt====
	#If a Jew owed a non-Jew capital and interest, that non-Jew can sell that debt to another Jew. If the non-Jew collects the interest it is permitted for the Jew to accept it, yet if he doesn't then the second Jew shouldn't collect the interest from the first Jew.<ref>Rashba responsa 1:764 cited by Darkei Moshe 168:6</ref>		#If a Jew owed a non-Jew capital and interest, that non-Jew can sell that debt to another Jew. If the non-Jew collects the interest it is permitted for the Jew to accept it, yet if he doesn't then the second Jew shouldn't collect the interest from the first Jew.<ref>Rashba responsa 1:764 cited by Darkei Moshe 168:6</ref>