Prohibition to Lie - Revision history

YitzchakSultan1: /* To Prevent Sin */

2024-10-16T15:38:11Z

To Prevent Sin

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:38, 16 October 2024
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	==To Prevent Sin==		==To Prevent Sin==

	#It is permissible to lie in order to prevent another Jew from transgressing a sin. For instance to a person who is lax in certain prohibitions that a certain rav ruled that it is forbidden even if the rav never did.<ref>Magen Avraham 156:2 based on Eruvin 51 and Pesachim 112a and Sefer Midvar [[Sheker]] Tirchak page 61 quoting the Orach Meisharim. Gemara Shabbat 115a supports this. However, Mor Ukesiah 156:3 disagrees with Magen Avraham's proofs. Yesod Yosef (ch. 46) understands the gemara Pesachim 112a to mean that it is forbidden and a serious sin.</ref>		#It is permissible to lie in order to prevent another Jew from transgressing a sin. For instance to a person who is lax in certain prohibitions that a certain rav ruled that it is forbidden even if the rav never did.<ref>Magen Avraham 156:2 based on Eruvin 51 and Pesachim 112a and Sefer Midvar [[Sheker]] Tirchak page 61 quoting the Orach Meisharim. Gemara Shabbat 115a supports this. However, Mor Ukesiah 156:3 disagrees with Magen Avraham's proofs. Yesod Yosef (ch. 46) understands the gemara Pesachim 112a to mean that it is forbidden and a serious sin. Chida (Machzik Bracha 156:7) defends Magen Avraham. While Magen Avraham raises a question from Masechet Kallah, most achronim (Eliya Rabba, Pri Megadim, Chida) answer that question.</ref>

	==To encourage a mitzva==		==To encourage a mitzva==

YitzchakSultan1: /* To Prevent Sin */

2024-10-16T15:35:31Z

To Prevent Sin

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:35, 16 October 2024
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	==To Prevent Sin==		==To Prevent Sin==

	#It is permissible to lie in order to prevent another Jew from transgressing a sin. For instance to a person who is lax in certain prohibitions that a certain rav ruled that it is forbidden even if the rav never did.<ref>Magen Avraham 156:2 and Sefer Midvar [[Sheker]] Tirchak page 61 quoting the Orach Meisharim. Gemara Shabbat 115a supports this. Yesod Yosef (ch. 46) understands the gemara Pesachim 112a to mean that it is forbidden and a serious sin.</ref>		#It is permissible to lie in order to prevent another Jew from transgressing a sin. For instance to a person who is lax in certain prohibitions that a certain rav ruled that it is forbidden even if the rav never did.<ref>Magen Avraham 156:2 based on Eruvin 51 and Pesachim 112a and Sefer Midvar [[Sheker]] Tirchak page 61 quoting the Orach Meisharim. Gemara Shabbat 115a supports this. However, Mor Ukesiah 156:3 disagrees with Magen Avraham's proofs. Yesod Yosef (ch. 46) understands the gemara Pesachim 112a to mean that it is forbidden and a serious sin.</ref>

	==To encourage a mitzva==		==To encourage a mitzva==

YitzchakSultan1: /* To Prevent Sin */

2024-10-16T15:19:35Z

To Prevent Sin

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:19, 16 October 2024
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	==To Prevent Sin==		==To Prevent Sin==

	#It is permissible to lie in order to prevent another Jew from transgressing a sin. For instance to a person who is lax in certain prohibitions that a certain rav ruled that it is forbidden even if the rav never did. <ref>Magen Avraham 156:2 and Sefer Midvar [[Sheker]] Tirchak page 61 quoting the Orach Meisharim. Gemara Shabbat 115a supports this. Yesod Yosef (ch. 46) understands the gemara Pesachim 112a to mean that it is forbidden and a serious sin.</ref>		#It is permissible to lie in order to prevent another Jew from transgressing a sin. For instance to a person who is lax in certain prohibitions that a certain rav ruled that it is forbidden even if the rav never did.<ref>Magen Avraham 156:2 and Sefer Midvar [[Sheker]] Tirchak page 61 quoting the Orach Meisharim. Gemara Shabbat 115a supports this. Yesod Yosef (ch. 46) understands the gemara Pesachim 112a to mean that it is forbidden and a serious sin.</ref>

	==To encourage a mitzva==		==To encourage a mitzva==

	#It is prohibited to call out large sums of money as a pledge during the appeal in a shul for an organization even though they have no intention of giving that money in order to encouarage other to give moves. <ref>minchat yitzchak 3:97 </ref>		#It is prohibited to call out large sums of money as a pledge during the appeal in a shul for an organization even though they have no intention of giving that money in order to encouarage other to give moves.<ref>minchat yitzchak 3:97 </ref>

	==To Avoid Chilul Hashem==		==To Avoid Chilul Hashem==

	#One is permitted to lie if it will to prevent a chilul Hashem, a desecration of Hashem's name. <ref>Mishpatei Hashalom 2: pg. 55 </ref>		#One is permitted to lie if it will to prevent a chilul Hashem, a desecration of Hashem's name.<ref>Mishpatei Hashalom 2: pg. 55 </ref>

	==Children==		==Children==

Unknown user at 20:28, 19 April 2021

2021-04-19T20:28:25Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:28, 19 April 2021
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	==Surprise Party==		==Surprise Party==

	#Many times one is interested in making a surprise party for someone but can not get him to the party by telling him the truth, therefore, a lie is said in order to get him to the party without him knowing the real reason why he is going. One is not allowed to do so since it is an outright lie.<ref>Opinion of Harav Fisher zt”l quoted in Titen Emes L’Yaakov page 176. </ref>		#Many times one is interested in making a surprise party for someone but can not get him to the party by telling him the truth, therefore, a lie is said in order to get him to the party without him knowing the real reason why he is going. One is not allowed to do so since it is an outright lie.<ref>Opinion of Harav Fisher zt”l quoted in Titen Emes L’Yaakov page 176. </ref> Others disagree.<ref>See the position of R' Menashe Klein (Kovetz Mah Tovu Ohalecha- 3, pg. 57, no. 29) and R' Shlomo Aviner (Piskei Shelomo 3, Choshen Mishpat, pg. 151). The Sefer Halichot Bein Adam LeChaveiro (20:17) writes that when it comes to surprise parties, one should minimize lying as much as possible, and that it is preferable to choose wording that can be understood in two ways.</ref>

	==Airport==		==Airport==

YitzchakSultan: /* Avoiding Embarrassment */

2019-12-25T12:31:05Z

Avoiding Embarrassment

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:31, 25 December 2019
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	#Also, the Gemara Chullin 111b has a story in which Shmuel seems to have fabricated a story about Rav to convince Rabbi Elazar of his opinion and later Rav denies it. The Maharalbach (Chief Rabbi of Yerushalayim from 1525 until 1545) responsa 121 was very troubled by this gemara and that explained that Shmuel didn't actually make up a story and he was just misunderstood or that he did but he just meant that he was sure that the story could have happened so he said it as though it happened. See Ketav Sofer YD 77 was similarly bothered.		#Also, the Gemara Chullin 111b has a story in which Shmuel seems to have fabricated a story about Rav to convince Rabbi Elazar of his opinion and later Rav denies it. The Maharalbach (Chief Rabbi of Yerushalayim from 1525 until 1545) responsa 121 was very troubled by this gemara and that explained that Shmuel didn't actually make up a story and he was just misunderstood or that he did but he just meant that he was sure that the story could have happened so he said it as though it happened. See Ketav Sofer YD 77 was similarly bothered.
	#Also, the Gemara Avoda Zara 58a records a story in which Rava altered what he actually said originally to saved being embarrassed by his original mistaken ruling.		#Also, the Gemara Avoda Zara 58a records a story in which Rava altered what he actually said originally to saved being embarrassed by his original mistaken ruling.
	##(Also, Eruvin 51a tells a story in which Rav Yosef made up a statement of Rabbi Yosi to support his point, however, there he knew he was right and no one argued with him, and he just said quoted someone great so that Rabba would listen to him.		##(Also, Eruvin 51a tells a story in which Rav Yosef made up a statement of Rabbi Yosi to support his point, however, there he knew he was right and no one argued with him, and he just said quoted someone great so that Rabba would listen to him. See Yabia Omer CM 2:3 who cites the Rama Mpano 5 who strongly disagrees with Rashi to explain this story differently for this reason.
	##The same is true of Gemara Shabbat 115a in which Rabba made up a statement of Rabbi Yochanan so that people would listen to him.		##The same is true of Gemara Shabbat 115a in which Rabba made up a statement of Rabbi Yochanan so that people would listen to him.
	##See Nazir 59b in which Rabbi Yehoshua asked a question to Ben Zoma based on unsubstantiated assumptions in order to gain clarity of the subject. The gemara explains that he did so to teach everyone that a person shouldn't be embarrassed to ask questions.)		##See Nazir 59b in which Rabbi Yehoshua asked a question to Ben Zoma based on unsubstantiated assumptions in order to gain clarity of the subject. The gemara explains that he did so to teach everyone that a person shouldn't be embarrassed to ask questions.)

AlexanderSchlesinger: /* Surprise Party */

2019-07-03T00:55:19Z

Surprise Party

Show changes

Jeremypurow: /* Airport */

2019-07-03T00:49:21Z

Airport

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:49, 3 July 2019
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	==Airport==		==Airport==
	# When traveling on an airplane one is asked beforehand if he packed everything and if there are any packages that you may have received from others. One is allowed to answer that he did not receive any packages from others even if he knows there is a package from his friend in the suitcase. The reason why doing so is permitted is because the point of the question is to inquire if there are any "suspicious" objects onboard. Since the passenger knows that there are no such items in his suitcase he may say that there are no packages from anyone inside.<ref>Titen Emes L’Yaakov pages 265-266. </ref> ~~It may need to be redone today's.~~		# When traveling on an airplane one is asked beforehand if he packed everything and if there are any packages that you may have received from others. One is allowed to answer that he did not receive any packages from others even if he knows there is a package from his friend in the suitcase. The reason why doing so is permitted is because the point of the question is to inquire if there are any "suspicious" objects onboard. Since the passenger knows that there are no such items in his suitcase he may say that there are no packages from anyone inside.<ref>Titen Emes L’Yaakov pages 265-266. </ref>

	==Torah==		==Torah==
	# When one is telling you a davar Torah which you heard already, you may make believe that you never heard it even if you did.<ref>Emes Koneh page 40:footnote 10, Titen Emes L’Yaakov page 223 quoting the opinion of Harav Shlomo Zalman Aurbach zt”l. </ref>		# When one is telling you a davar Torah which you heard already, you may make believe that you never heard it even if you did.<ref>Emes Koneh page 40:footnote 10, Titen Emes L’Yaakov page 223 quoting the opinion of Harav Shlomo Zalman Aurbach zt”l. </ref>

AlexanderSchlesinger: /* Shidduch */

2019-07-03T00:47:22Z

Shidduch

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:47, 3 July 2019
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	# If an individual is fasting (not on a public fast day) and he is asked if he is fasting, it is proper for him to say he is not fasting in order not to show off before others.<ref>Refer to Taz O.C. 565:6, Magen Avraham 7, Kaf Ha’chaim 565:34. Refer to Lev Chaim 1:5. </ref>		# If an individual is fasting (not on a public fast day) and he is asked if he is fasting, it is proper for him to say he is not fasting in order not to show off before others.<ref>Refer to Taz O.C. 565:6, Magen Avraham 7, Kaf Ha’chaim 565:34. Refer to Lev Chaim 1:5. </ref>
	==Shidduch==		==Shidduch==
	# It is very common for one to be ~~red~~ a shidduch and if it is not for him, he says he is "busy." Is this permitted even if he is not busy but does not want the girl to feel bad that he really is saying no? One is permitted to do so since otherwise it would be embarrassing to the girl to know that the boy said no to her.<ref>Titen Emes L’Yaakov page 167, Emes Koneh page 55:footnote 45. Refer to Mesechtas Berochos 43b, Rashi “v’lo hiy.” </ref>		# It is very common for one to be informed of a shidduch and if it is not for him, he says he is "busy." Is this permitted even if he is not busy but does not want the girl to feel bad that he really is saying no? One is permitted to do so since otherwise it would be embarrassing to the girl to know that the boy said no to her.<ref>Titen Emes L’Yaakov page 167, Emes Koneh page 55:footnote 45. Refer to Mesechtas Berochos 43b, Rashi “v’lo hiy.” </ref>

	==Lying about Age ==		==Lying about Age ==
	# A question arises if one is permitted to tell a shadchan he or she is younger than their age in order to facilitate a shidduch.<ref>Refer to Titen Emes L’Yaakov pages 121-124 on this inyun. </ref> There are poskim who say if one of the sides is already looking for a shidduch and is having a hard time finding one then he or she may lie about their age.<ref>Opinion of Harav Fisher zt”l quoted in Titen Emes L’Yaakov page 122.</ref> Harav Elyashiv Shlita says that one who is twenty can say he is nineteen.<ref>Quoted in Titen Emes L’Yaakov page 122. The Steipler zt”l said that in general the husband should not be more than ten years older than the wife (Orchos Rabbeinu 1:page 268:23).</ref> When this question arises one should discuss it with his Rav.		# A question arises if one is permitted to tell a shadchan he or she is younger than their age in order to facilitate a shidduch.<ref>Refer to Titen Emes L’Yaakov pages 121-124 on this inyun. </ref> There are poskim who say if one of the sides is already looking for a shidduch and is having a hard time finding one then he or she may lie about their age.<ref>Opinion of Harav Fisher zt”l quoted in Titen Emes L’Yaakov page 122.</ref> Harav Elyashiv Shlita says that one who is twenty can say he is nineteen.<ref>Quoted in Titen Emes L’Yaakov page 122. The Steipler zt”l said that in general the husband should not be more than ten years older than the wife (Orchos Rabbeinu 1:page 268:23).</ref> When this question arises one should discuss it with his Rav.

YitzchakSultan: /* Avoiding Embarrassment */

2018-03-15T13:02:20Z

Avoiding Embarrassment

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:02, 15 March 2018
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	# One is permitted to lie in order for one's friend to avoid being embarrassed.<ref>Rambam Hilchos Gezeilah V’aveidah 14:13, Lev Chaim 1:5, Titen Emes L’Yaakov pages 97-99. Refer to Shevet Ha’Levi 5:2. Refer to Masechet Berochos 43b, Rashi “v’lo hiy,” Masechet Eruvin 53b, Sanhedrin 11a, Menochos 67b, Rashi Mesechet Avodah Zarah 58a “dumi,” Tosfos Avodah Zarah 58a “ikloah,” Da’as Torah 156. </ref>		# One is permitted to lie in order for one's friend to avoid being embarrassed.<ref>Rambam Hilchos Gezeilah V’aveidah 14:13, Lev Chaim 1:5, Titen Emes L’Yaakov pages 97-99. Refer to Shevet Ha’Levi 5:2. Refer to Masechet Berochos 43b, Rashi “v’lo hiy,” Masechet Eruvin 53b, Sanhedrin 11a, Menochos 67b, Rashi Mesechet Avodah Zarah 58a “dumi,” Tosfos Avodah Zarah 58a “ikloah,” Da’as Torah 156. </ref>
	# Similarly, it is sometimes permitted to lie to avoid personal embarrassment.<ref>The Gemara has numerous stories in which there is some white lie to protect being embarrassed.		# Similarly, it is sometimes permitted to lie to avoid personal embarrassment.<ref>The Gemara has numerous stories in which there is some white lie to protect being embarrassed.
	# The Gemara ~~Avoda Zara~~ 77a states that if a rabbi says a halachic testimony before an occurrence happened it is accepted but if he says it afterwards then it isn't accepted. Tosfot s.v. im explains that we don't accept the testimony if he is personally involved and stands to benefit.		# The Gemara Yevamot 77a states that if a rabbi says a halachic testimony before an occurrence happened it is accepted but if he says it afterwards then it isn't accepted. Tosfot s.v. im explains that we don't accept the testimony if he is personally involved and stands to benefit.
	# The Gemara Brachot 43b relates a story in which Rav Papa fabricated a testimony from Rava to substantiate his actions so that he wouldn't be embarrassed with what he did incorrectly (Rashi s.v. velo). Magen Giborim 216:5 offers an nuanced interpretation in which Rav Papa didn't make up any testimony. [https://www.yutorah.org/sidebar/lecture.cfm/897195/rabbi-hershel-schachter/berachos-86-43b-44b-lying-to-cover-up-mistakes-talking-to-women-in-public-late-to-shul-tuna-fish-kashrus-al-haetz-al-ha-adamah-making-up-brachos/ Rav Schachter (Brachot Shiur 86 min 4)] said that it is scandalous to learn the gemara like Rashi that a rabbi can sometimes lie to save embarrassment and that's why some rishonim disagree. On that Gemara Brachot the Gilyon Hashas points out a Gemara Yerushalmi Nazir 7:1 33b which relates a story in which a student Gavila made up a testimony of what his teacher Rav Acha said and when it was found out that he mistakenly extrapolated and misquoted his teacher, Rav Acha flogged him. That certainly indicates that it is a serious offense to misquote someone. So why was Rav Papa permitted to do what he did?		# The Gemara Brachot 43b relates a story in which Rav Papa fabricated a testimony from Rava to substantiate his actions so that he wouldn't be embarrassed with what he did incorrectly (Rashi s.v. velo). Magen Giborim 216:5 offers an nuanced interpretation in which Rav Papa didn't make up any testimony. [https://www.yutorah.org/sidebar/lecture.cfm/897195/rabbi-hershel-schachter/berachos-86-43b-44b-lying-to-cover-up-mistakes-talking-to-women-in-public-late-to-shul-tuna-fish-kashrus-al-haetz-al-ha-adamah-making-up-brachos/ Rav Schachter (Brachot Shiur 86 min 4)] said that it is scandalous to learn the gemara like Rashi that a rabbi can sometimes lie to save embarrassment and that's why some rishonim disagree. On that Gemara Brachot the Gilyon Hashas points out a Gemara Yerushalmi Nazir 7:1 33b which relates a story in which a student Gavila made up a testimony of what his teacher Rav Acha said and when it was found out that he mistakenly extrapolated and misquoted his teacher, Rav Acha flogged him. That certainly indicates that it is a serious offense to misquote someone. So why was Rav Papa permitted to do what he did?
	# Also, the Gemara Chullin 111b has a story in which Shmuel seems to have fabricated a story about Rav to convince Rabbi Elazar of his opinion and later Rav denies it. The Maharalbach (Chief Rabbi of Yerushalayim from 1525 until 1545) responsa 121 was very troubled by this gemara and that explained that Shmuel didn't actually make up a story and he was just misunderstood or that he did but he just meant that he was sure that the story could have happened so he said it as though it happened. See Ketav Sofer YD 77 was similarly bothered.		# Also, the Gemara Chullin 111b has a story in which Shmuel seems to have fabricated a story about Rav to convince Rabbi Elazar of his opinion and later Rav denies it. The Maharalbach (Chief Rabbi of Yerushalayim from 1525 until 1545) responsa 121 was very troubled by this gemara and that explained that Shmuel didn't actually make up a story and he was just misunderstood or that he did but he just meant that he was sure that the story could have happened so he said it as though it happened. See Ketav Sofer YD 77 was similarly bothered.

YitzchakSultan: /* Avoiding Embarrassment */

2018-03-15T03:37:01Z

Avoiding Embarrassment

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:37, 15 March 2018
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	# The Gemara Brachot 43b relates a story in which Rav Papa fabricated a testimony from Rava to substantiate his actions so that he wouldn't be embarrassed with what he did incorrectly (Rashi s.v. velo). Magen Giborim 216:5 offers an nuanced interpretation in which Rav Papa didn't make up any testimony. [https://www.yutorah.org/sidebar/lecture.cfm/897195/rabbi-hershel-schachter/berachos-86-43b-44b-lying-to-cover-up-mistakes-talking-to-women-in-public-late-to-shul-tuna-fish-kashrus-al-haetz-al-ha-adamah-making-up-brachos/ Rav Schachter (Brachot Shiur 86 min 4)] said that it is scandalous to learn the gemara like Rashi that a rabbi can sometimes lie to save embarrassment and that's why some rishonim disagree. On that Gemara Brachot the Gilyon Hashas points out a Gemara Yerushalmi Nazir 7:1 33b which relates a story in which a student Gavila made up a testimony of what his teacher Rav Acha said and when it was found out that he mistakenly extrapolated and misquoted his teacher, Rav Acha flogged him. That certainly indicates that it is a serious offense to misquote someone. So why was Rav Papa permitted to do what he did?		# The Gemara Brachot 43b relates a story in which Rav Papa fabricated a testimony from Rava to substantiate his actions so that he wouldn't be embarrassed with what he did incorrectly (Rashi s.v. velo). Magen Giborim 216:5 offers an nuanced interpretation in which Rav Papa didn't make up any testimony. [https://www.yutorah.org/sidebar/lecture.cfm/897195/rabbi-hershel-schachter/berachos-86-43b-44b-lying-to-cover-up-mistakes-talking-to-women-in-public-late-to-shul-tuna-fish-kashrus-al-haetz-al-ha-adamah-making-up-brachos/ Rav Schachter (Brachot Shiur 86 min 4)] said that it is scandalous to learn the gemara like Rashi that a rabbi can sometimes lie to save embarrassment and that's why some rishonim disagree. On that Gemara Brachot the Gilyon Hashas points out a Gemara Yerushalmi Nazir 7:1 33b which relates a story in which a student Gavila made up a testimony of what his teacher Rav Acha said and when it was found out that he mistakenly extrapolated and misquoted his teacher, Rav Acha flogged him. That certainly indicates that it is a serious offense to misquote someone. So why was Rav Papa permitted to do what he did?
	# Also, the Gemara Chullin 111b has a story in which Shmuel seems to have fabricated a story about Rav to convince Rabbi Elazar of his opinion and later Rav denies it. The Maharalbach (Chief Rabbi of Yerushalayim from 1525 until 1545) responsa 121 was very troubled by this gemara and that explained that Shmuel didn't actually make up a story and he was just misunderstood or that he did but he just meant that he was sure that the story could have happened so he said it as though it happened. See Ketav Sofer YD 77 was similarly bothered.		# Also, the Gemara Chullin 111b has a story in which Shmuel seems to have fabricated a story about Rav to convince Rabbi Elazar of his opinion and later Rav denies it. The Maharalbach (Chief Rabbi of Yerushalayim from 1525 until 1545) responsa 121 was very troubled by this gemara and that explained that Shmuel didn't actually make up a story and he was just misunderstood or that he did but he just meant that he was sure that the story could have happened so he said it as though it happened. See Ketav Sofer YD 77 was similarly bothered.
	# Also, the Gemara Avoda Zara ~~57a~~ records a story in which Rava altered what he actually said originally to saved being embarrassed by his original mistaken ruling.		# Also, the Gemara Avoda Zara 58a records a story in which Rava altered what he actually said originally to saved being embarrassed by his original mistaken ruling.
	## (Also, Eruvin 51a tells a story in which Rav Yosef made up a statement of Rabbi Yosi to support his point, however, there he knew he was right and no one argued with him, and he just said quoted someone great so that Rabba would listen to him.		## (Also, Eruvin 51a tells a story in which Rav Yosef made up a statement of Rabbi Yosi to support his point, however, there he knew he was right and no one argued with him, and he just said quoted someone great so that Rabba would listen to him.
	## The same is true of Gemara Shabbat 115a in which Rabba made up a statement of Rabbi Yochanan so that people would listen to him.		## The same is true of Gemara Shabbat 115a in which Rabba made up a statement of Rabbi Yochanan so that people would listen to him.