Glatt Kosher Meat - Revision history

Bchernigoff: Edited grammar

2024-08-23T14:40:09Z

Edited grammar

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:40, 23 August 2024
Line 1:		Line 1:
	==Kosher vs Glatt==		==Kosher vs Glatt==
	#The Ashkenazic minhag for centuries was to allow the bodek to check the lungs for adhesions and peel or rub them off. If they come off cleanly ~~the~~ Rama holds it is permitted.<ref>Most of these mekorot are found in the Bet Yosef and Darkei Moshe 39:10-17.		#The Ashkenazic minhag for centuries was to allow the bodek to check the lungs for adhesions and peel or rub them off. If they come off cleanly, then Rama holds that it is permitted.<ref>Most of these mekorot are found in the Bet Yosef and Darkei Moshe 39:10-17.
	* The Tur 39:10 writes that the minhag in some places is that they ~~would~~ shake the lungs to remove any adhesions because ~~any adhesions that come off aren't really adhesions since~~ a real adhesion would ~~stay in place~~ even if ~~you~~ rubbed it ~~all day~~. The minhag cited by the Rama ~~was to~~ crush, rub, and peel off the adhesions and if they come off completely it is kosher.		*The Tur 39:10 writes that the minhag in some places is that they shake the lungs to remove any adhesions. The reason for this practice is because a real adhesion would not come off, even if rubbed the entire day. If an adhesion easily comes off, then it's not halakhically problematic.
	* Rishonim who allow mishmush: Minhag of some places (Tur 39:10), Ri Halavan (Kol Bo 101, cited by Bet Yosef 39:11-2), Kol Bo (cited by Darkei Moshe 39:20), Mahari Vayil (cited by Darkei Moshe 39:20), Maharash (cited by Darkei Moshe 39:20), Rosh (according to Maharshal cited by Shach 39:33), Rama 39:13. See also Rabbenu Yerucham (cited by end of Bet Yosef 39:10:2) quoting the lenient position of Chachmei Lunil and Narvona.</ref> While some limit this minhag to adhesions in certain places and ~~only~~ rubbing and scraping, others expand the minhag to include adhesions of all kinds<ref>Rama is only lenient if the adhesions are ksidran, but for shelo ksidran he says not to do mishmush unless it is a hefsed merubeh. Bach 39:15 writes that the minhag is to do mishmush in all cases even shelo ksidran even if ~~it isn~~'~~t a~~ hefsed and it isn't necessary to protest. Shach 39:37 agrees.		*The minhag cited by the Rama is that one should crush, rub, and peel off the adhesions, and if they come off completely, then it is kosher.
	</ref> and even allow scraping.<ref>Pri Megadim M"Z 39:17 (cited by Pitchei Teshuva 39:14) forbids scrapping off a adhesion and if the bodek does so the animal is teref. This is implied by Taz 39:17. However, Tiferet Tzvi and Chatom Sofer cited by Pitchei Teshuva 39:14 say that ~~there's something for this~~ minhag of scraping off the sirchot to rely upon. Aruch Hashulchan 39:109 agrees.</ref> The mainstay of Ashkenazic poskim accept and support this minhag.<ref>Rama 39:13, Maharshal (cited by Shach 39:33), and Taz 39:17 all accept the minhag of rubbing off adhesions. Gra 39:26 seems to be strict. Rav Ovadia (Yachava Daat 3:56, Yabia Omer YD 5:3) also quotes the Shlah and Chayei Adam who are strict.</ref> The term ''glatt'' refers to a higher standard in removing adhesions that today has become accepted as the proper standard for Orthodox Jews.<ref>The [https://oukosher.org/blog/feature/what-exactly-is-glatt-kosher/ OU] describes that the practice of gently peeling off adhesions ~~and~~ is better than the ~~manipulation~~ of mashing and massaging the adhesions ~~of the Rama~~. They say that this practice which started in the 1890s is considered glatt. Similarly, [https://www.star-k.org/articles/kashrus-kurrents/3473/making-the-cut-assuring-that-glatt-really-means-kosher/ Rav Moshe Heinemann] defines Glatt as lungs with adhesions that were exceptionally thin and the ~~adhesion~~ peeled off easily, while kosher means the adhesions were thicker and wider. Hakashrut Lmaaseh p. 76 writes that up to three adhesions that are removed easily it is ~~still called~~ glatt. Yeshurun v. 28 p. 374 has a letter from Rav Yekutiel Efrati that Rav Elyashiv held that adhesions that are removed very easily with passing a hand gently like spiderwebs (קורי עכביש) and not rubbing should still be labled chalak but not chalak bet yosef. [http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/6918/ Rav Shein] said that Rav Machpud's standard of bet yosef is that the lung is smooth like marble and not sticky paper or spiderwebs (קורי עכביש). </ref>		*Rishonim who allow mishmush (rubbing): Minhag of some places (Tur 39:10), Ri Halavan (Kol Bo 101, cited by Bet Yosef 39:11-2), Kol Bo (cited by Darkei Moshe 39:20), Mahari Vayil (cited by Darkei Moshe 39:20), Maharash (cited by Darkei Moshe 39:20), Rosh (according to Maharshal cited by Shach 39:33), Rama 39:13. See also Rabbenu Yerucham (cited by end of Bet Yosef 39:10:2) quoting the lenient position of Chachmei Lunil and Narvona.</ref> While some limit this minhag to adhesions in certain places, and limit the leniency to rubbing and scraping, others expand the minhag to include adhesions of all kinds,<ref>Rama is only lenient if the adhesions are ksidran, but for shelo ksidran he says not to do mishmush (scraping) unless it is a hefsed merubeh (great financial loss). Bach 39:15 writes that the minhag is to do mishmush in all cases, even shelo ksidran and even if there's no hefsed, and it isn't necessary to protest. Shach 39:37 agrees.
			</ref> and even allow scraping.<ref>Pri Megadim M"Z 39:17 (cited by Pitchei Teshuva 39:14) forbids scrapping off a adhesion, and if the bodek does so the animal is teref. This is implied by Taz 39:17. However, Tiferet Tzvi and Chatom Sofer cited by Pitchei Teshuva 39:14 say that the minhag of scraping off the sirchot (adhesions) has what to rely upon. Aruch Hashulchan 39:109 agrees.</ref> The mainstay of Ashkenazic poskim accept and support this minhag.<ref>Rama 39:13, Maharshal (cited by Shach 39:33), and Taz 39:17 all accept the minhag of rubbing off adhesions. Gra 39:26 seems to be strict. Rav Ovadia (Yachava Daat 3:56, Yabia Omer YD 5:3) also quotes the Shlah and Chayei Adam who are strict.</ref> The term ''glatt'' refers to a higher standard in removing adhesions that today has become accepted as the proper standard for Orthodox Jews.<ref>The [https://oukosher.org/blog/feature/what-exactly-is-glatt-kosher/ OU] describes that the practice of gently peeling off adhesions is better than the practice recorded by Rama of mashing and massaging the adhesions. They say that this practice, which started in the 1890s, is considered glatt. Similarly, [https://www.star-k.org/articles/kashrus-kurrents/3473/making-the-cut-assuring-that-glatt-really-means-kosher/ Rav Moshe Heinemann] defines "Glatt kosher" as lungs with adhesions that were exceptionally thin and the adhesions peeled off easily, while "kosher" means the adhesions were thicker and wider. Hakashrut Lmaaseh p. 76 writes that up to three adhesions that are removed easily is considered glatt. Yeshurun v. 28 p. 374 has a letter from Rav Yekutiel Efrati that Rav Elyashiv held that adhesions that are removed very easily with passing a hand gently like spiderwebs (קורי עכביש) and not rubbing, should still be labled chalak but not chalak bet yosef. [http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/6918/ Rav Shein] said that Rav Machpud's standard of bet yosef is that the lung is smooth like marble and not sticky paper or spiderwebs (קורי עכביש). </ref>

	==Bet Yosef vs Glatt==		==Bet Yosef vs Glatt==
	#Unlike Ashkenazic practice, Sephardim are strict not to allow any adhesions on the lungs<ref>The Tur 39:10 writes that the Rashba (Torat Habayit 2:3 34b, responsa 1:304) wrote vehemently against the practice of rubbing off adhesions and held that anyone who does ~~that~~ is feeding terefot to the Jewish people. Rabbenu Tam (as cited by Rabbenu Yerucham in beginning of Bet Yosef 39:10:2) and Rambam (Shechita 11:7-8) as understood by Rav Dovid Ibn Yichya (Terefot n. 14, cited by Bet Yosef 39:10:1) agree with the Rashba. Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 39:10 codifies the opinion of the Rashba. Rav Ovadia (Yachava Daat 3:56, Yabia Omer YD 5:3) quotes many other Sephardi poskim who accept the opinion of the Rashba.</ref> Even according to Sephardim, an adhesion that is easily removed by ~~the~~ passing ~~of a~~ hand gently is permitted.<ref>Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 39:13 quotes Rabbenu Simcha Mvitri who allows an adhesion which was removed by the passing of the hand of a bodek. The Shulchan Aruch~~'s language~~ is even if ~~the hand~~ passed briskly~~, however~~, the Taz 39:16 quotes the Maharshal who only allows the passing of the hand gently. This is language of the [https://oukosher.org/blog/feature/what-exactly-is-glatt-kosher/ OU]: "even the Beis Yosef would agree that adhesions that are so tenuous as to separate with ease, via the simple passing-through of the hands of the bodek, are likewise acceptable, and are considered ‘ririn.’"		#Unlike Ashkenazic practice, Sephardim are strict not to allow any adhesions on the lungs.<ref>The Tur 39:10 writes that the Rashba (Torat Habayit 2:3 34b, responsa 1:304) wrote vehemently against the practice of rubbing off adhesions, and held that anyone who does so is feeding terefot to the Jewish people. Rabbenu Tam (as cited by Rabbenu Yerucham in beginning of Bet Yosef 39:10:2), and Rambam (Shechita 11:7-8) as understood by Rav Dovid Ibn Yichya (Terefot n. 14, cited by Bet Yosef 39:10:1), agree with the Rashba. Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 39:10 codifies the opinion of the Rashba. Rav Ovadia (Yachava Daat 3:56, Yabia Omer YD 5:3) quotes many other Sephardi poskim who accept the opinion of the Rashba.</ref> Even according to Sephardim, an adhesion that is easily removed by passing one's hand gently is permitted.<ref>Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 39:13 quotes Rabbenu Simcha Mvitri who allows an adhesion which was removed by the passing of the hand of a bodek. The Shulchan Aruch is lenient and even permits it if one's hands passed by briskly. However, the Taz 39:16 quotes the Maharshal who only allows the passing of the hand gently. This is language of the [https://oukosher.org/blog/feature/what-exactly-is-glatt-kosher/ OU]: "even the Beis Yosef would agree that adhesions that are so tenuous as to separate with ease, via the simple passing-through of the hands of the bodek, are likewise acceptable, and are considered ‘ririn.’"
	* Another practice that isn't as serious as rubbing is shaking the lungs to remove any parts of the lungs that are stuck. Rishonim who allow shaking:		*Another practice that isn't as serious as rubbing is shaking the lungs to remove any parts of the lungs that are stuck. Rishonim who allow shaking:
	Mar Yakov Goan (Tur 39:10), Rosh (Chullin 3:14, cited by Bet Yosef 39:10:1), Rabbenu Yerucham (15:5:6 124a, cited by Bet Yosef 39:10:1). Beit Yosef 39:10:2 writes that it seems that Rabbenu Yerucham understands that the Rashba would forbid shaking, but Rav Dovid Ibn Yichiya understands that the Rashba would allow it. Discussion in Beit Yosef if shaking only works for a sircha ~~from~~ the lungs to other places or even within the lungs. ~~Today, the~~ Bet Yosef 39:10:2 writes that we don't shake the lungs today because we're not experts in how to do it. Taz 39:15 and Shach 39:31 agree.</ref> ~~at all.~~<ref>[https://oukosher.org/blog/feature/what-exactly-is-glatt-kosher/ OU] writes "Rabbi Yosef Karo said ~~that~~ that NO adhesions are permitted: one cannot risk their removal, for adhesions do not cover an existing hole. Rather, they develop, and afterwards can detach, and create a hole. We dare not toy with these adhesions, lest we give the animal the appearance of kosher status. This is the (aforementioned) view of the Rashba. “Those authorities require only ‘chalak,’ or totally smooth lungs. This standard is known as ‘Chalak Beit Yosef,’ smooth, as per the Beis Yosef,” Rabbi Klarberg said." This is also the view of [https://www.star-k.org/articles/kashrus-kurrents/3473/making-the-cut-assuring-that-glatt-really-means-kosher/ Rav Moshe Heinemann] that Bet Yosef means that there are no adhesions at all. This seems to be the opinion of [http://halachayomit.co.il/he/Default.aspx?HalachaID=177 Rav Ovadia Yosef] as well.</ref>		Mar Yakov Goan (Tur 39:10), Rosh (Chullin 3:14, cited by Bet Yosef 39:10:1), Rabbenu Yerucham (15:5:6 124a, cited by Bet Yosef 39:10:1). Beit Yosef 39:10:2 writes that it seems that Rabbenu Yerucham understands that the Rashba would forbid shaking, but Rav Dovid Ibn Yichiya understands that the Rashba would allow it. Discussion in Beit Yosef if shaking only works for a sircha between the lungs and other places, or even within the lungs. The Bet Yosef 39:10:2 writes that we don't shake the lungs today because we're not experts in how to do it. Taz 39:15 and Shach 39:31 agree.</ref><ref>[https://oukosher.org/blog/feature/what-exactly-is-glatt-kosher/ OU] writes "Rabbi Yosef Karo said that NO adhesions are permitted: one cannot risk their removal, for adhesions do not cover an existing hole. Rather, they develop, and afterwards can detach, and create a hole. We dare not toy with these adhesions, lest we give the animal the appearance of kosher status. This is the (aforementioned) view of the Rashba. “Those authorities require only ‘chalak,’ or totally smooth lungs. This standard is known as ‘Chalak Beit Yosef,’ smooth, as per the Beis Yosef,” Rabbi Klarberg said." This is also the view of [https://www.star-k.org/articles/kashrus-kurrents/3473/making-the-cut-assuring-that-glatt-really-means-kosher/ Rav Moshe Heinemann] that Bet Yosef means that there are no adhesions at all. This seems to be the opinion of [http://halachayomit.co.il/he/Default.aspx?HalachaID=177 Rav Ovadia Yosef] as well.</ref>
	# Sephardim need to be careful to only eat "Bet Yosef" meat because according to Shulchan Aruch even "Glatt Kosher" meat isn't kosher.<~~Ref~~>Yabia Omer YD 5:3. Some claim that there are slaughterhouses in America that market their meat as Bet Yosef, but, in fact, [http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/6918/ ~~it is~~ not Bet Yosef]. Rather, it's just meat from South America or labeled such using a lenient definition of what is considered Bet Yosef. One should consult with a rabbi who has extensive knowledge of the Kashrut industry ''and'' Sephardic Halacha to determine which brands are acceptable.</ref>		# Sephardim need to be careful to only eat "Bet Yosef" meat, because according to Shulchan Aruch, even "Glatt Kosher" meat isn't kosher.<ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:3. Some claim that there are slaughterhouses in America that market their meat as Bet Yosef, but it's in fact [http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/6918/ not Bet Yosef]. Rather, it's just meat from South America or labeled such using a lenient definition of what is considered Bet Yosef. One should consult with a rabbi who has extensive knowledge of the Kashrut industry ''and'' Sephardic Halacha to determine which brands are acceptable.</ref>
	# If a Sephardi is traveling and is invited to a place where they eat "Glatt Kosher" but not "Bet Yosef" it is permitted for him to eat with them, especially if it is a seudat mitzvah.<ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:3 quotes the Dvar Shmuel Avuhav 320 who is lenient for a Sephardi who is traveling to eat regular kosher meat since there's a safek safeka. 1) The meat might be completely kosher even according to the Bet Yosef. 2) Maybe the Rama is correct. Even though ~~generally~~ we need to check out a safek safeka if possible (efshar livarer) the Bach 437 holds that is ~~only true of~~ checking ~~about~~ an action ~~if it~~ was done properly but ~~not~~ to ~~check out~~ if something naturally occurred. Also, the Bet Yosef 437 holds that it is ~~only true of checking if~~ there's a ~~chazaka of~~ isur ~~but if~~ there's no ~~chazaka one doesn't have~~ to check. (See Magen Avraham 437 and Shach YD 187:19 who agree with Bet Yosef.) Therefore, after the lungs were checked to be Glatt there's a chazaka the animal is kosher and the chance of it being non-Bet-Yosef is considered something one doesn't have to ~~check into~~. In conclusion ~~of this question~~ the Rashba (Chullin 53b) and Shach (Klalei Safek Safeka 110:35) seem to hold that one does need to check the facts of a safek safeka if possible, yet the Shaar Hamelech (Mikvaot Klalim n. 3) argues. Also, since the host might not know, it could be embarrassing to ask, and it might cause a fight one can rely on the opinions that one doesn't need to check into a safek safeka.</ref>		# If a Sephardi is traveling and is invited to a place where they eat "Glatt Kosher" but not "Bet Yosef", it is permitted for him to eat with them, especially if it is a seudat mitzvah.<ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:3 quotes the Dvar Shmuel Avuhav 320 who is lenient for a Sephardi who is traveling to eat regular kosher meat since there's a safek safeka. 1) The meat might be completely kosher, even according to the Bet Yosef. 2) Maybe the Rama is correct. Even though the general assumption is that we need to check out a safek safeka if possible (efshar livarer), the Bach 437 holds that this is limited to checking if an action was done properly, but doesn't apply to checking if something naturally occurred. Also, the Bet Yosef 437 holds that clarifying a sfek sfeka is limited to when there is a chezkat isur (presumption that something is forbidden), and over here, that you don't have this, there's no need to check. (See Magen Avraham 437 and Shach YD 187:19 who agree with Bet Yosef.) Therefore, after the lungs were checked to be Glatt, there's a chazaka the animal is kosher, and the chance of it being non-Bet-Yosef is considered something that one doesn't have to be concerned about. In conclusion, the Rashba (Chullin 53b) and Shach (Klalei Safek Safeka 110:35) seem to hold that one does need to check the facts of a safek safeka if possible, yet the Shaar Hamelech (Mikvaot Klalim n. 3) argues. Also, since the host might not know, it could be embarrassing to ask and it might cause a fight; one can therefore rely on the opinions that one doesn't need to check into a safek safeka.</ref>
	# There is no concern of eating at the house of someone who keeps Kosher but isn't careful about Bet Yosef meat if it is possible that their dishes weren't used within 24 hours.<ref> Yabia Omer YD 5:3:2 is lenient based on the concept of stam kelim sheinan bnei yoman. Tosfot A"Z 38b explains that the reason to be lenient is that their pots probably weren't used in the last 24 hours and even if they did they might not have been used for a taste that would impart a good taste into the food being cooked. He quotes the Bayi Chayey YD 8 who agrees with his ruling.</ref>		# There is no concern of eating at the house of someone who keeps Kosher but isn't careful about Bet Yosef meat, if it is possible that their dishes weren't used within 24 hours.<ref> Yabia Omer YD 5:3:2 is lenient based on the concept of stam kelim sheinan bnei yoman. Tosfot A"Z 38b explains that the reason to be lenient is that their pots probably weren't used in the last 24 hours and even if they did they might not have been used for a taste that would impart a good taste into the food being cooked. He quotes the Bayi Chayey YD 8 who agrees with his ruling.</ref>

	==Sources==		==Sources==
	<references/>		<references/>

Jeremybassali: /* Bet Yosef vs Glatt */

2023-12-21T15:01:19Z

Bet Yosef vs Glatt

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:01, 21 December 2023
Line 11:		Line 11:
	# Sephardim need to be careful to only eat "Bet Yosef" meat because according to Shulchan Aruch even "Glatt Kosher" meat isn't kosher.<Ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:3. Some claim that there are slaughterhouses in America that market their meat as Bet Yosef, but, in fact, [http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/6918/ it is not Bet Yosef]. Rather, it's just meat from South America or labeled such using a lenient definition of what is considered Bet Yosef. One should consult with a rabbi who has extensive knowledge of the Kashrut industry ''and'' Sephardic Halacha to determine which brands are acceptable.</ref>		# Sephardim need to be careful to only eat "Bet Yosef" meat because according to Shulchan Aruch even "Glatt Kosher" meat isn't kosher.<Ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:3. Some claim that there are slaughterhouses in America that market their meat as Bet Yosef, but, in fact, [http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/6918/ it is not Bet Yosef]. Rather, it's just meat from South America or labeled such using a lenient definition of what is considered Bet Yosef. One should consult with a rabbi who has extensive knowledge of the Kashrut industry ''and'' Sephardic Halacha to determine which brands are acceptable.</ref>
	# If a Sephardi is traveling and is invited to a place where they eat "Glatt Kosher" but not "Bet Yosef" it is permitted for him to eat with them, especially if it is a seudat mitzvah.<ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:3 quotes the Dvar Shmuel Avuhav 320 who is lenient for a Sephardi who is traveling to eat regular kosher meat since there's a safek safeka. 1) The meat might be completely kosher even according to the Bet Yosef. 2) Maybe the Rama is correct. Even though generally we need to check out a safek safeka if possible (efshar livarer) the Bach 437 holds that is only true of checking about an action if it was done properly but not to check out if something naturally occurred. Also, the Bet Yosef 437 holds that it is only true of checking if there's a chazaka of isur but if there's no chazaka one doesn't have to check. (See Magen Avraham 437 and Shach YD 187:19 who agree with Bet Yosef.) Therefore, after the lungs were checked to be Glatt there's a chazaka the animal is kosher and the chance of it being non-Bet-Yosef is considered something one doesn't have to check into. In conclusion of this question the Rashba (Chullin 53b) and Shach (Klalei Safek Safeka 110:35) seem to hold that one does need to check the facts of a safek safeka if possible, yet the Shaar Hamelech (Mikvaot Klalim n. 3) argues. Also, since the host might not know, it could be embarrassing to ask, and it might cause a fight one can rely on the opinions that one doesn't need to check into a safek safeka.</ref>		# If a Sephardi is traveling and is invited to a place where they eat "Glatt Kosher" but not "Bet Yosef" it is permitted for him to eat with them, especially if it is a seudat mitzvah.<ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:3 quotes the Dvar Shmuel Avuhav 320 who is lenient for a Sephardi who is traveling to eat regular kosher meat since there's a safek safeka. 1) The meat might be completely kosher even according to the Bet Yosef. 2) Maybe the Rama is correct. Even though generally we need to check out a safek safeka if possible (efshar livarer) the Bach 437 holds that is only true of checking about an action if it was done properly but not to check out if something naturally occurred. Also, the Bet Yosef 437 holds that it is only true of checking if there's a chazaka of isur but if there's no chazaka one doesn't have to check. (See Magen Avraham 437 and Shach YD 187:19 who agree with Bet Yosef.) Therefore, after the lungs were checked to be Glatt there's a chazaka the animal is kosher and the chance of it being non-Bet-Yosef is considered something one doesn't have to check into. In conclusion of this question the Rashba (Chullin 53b) and Shach (Klalei Safek Safeka 110:35) seem to hold that one does need to check the facts of a safek safeka if possible, yet the Shaar Hamelech (Mikvaot Klalim n. 3) argues. Also, since the host might not know, it could be embarrassing to ask, and it might cause a fight one can rely on the opinions that one doesn't need to check into a safek safeka.</ref>
	# There is no concern of eating at the house of someone who keeps Kosher but isn't careful about Bet Yosef meat if it is possible that ~~they~~ weren't used within 24 hours.<ref> Yabia Omer YD 5:3:2 is lenient based on the concept of stam kelim sheinan bnei yoman. Tosfot A"Z 38b explains that the reason to be lenient is that their pots probably weren't used in the last 24 hours and even if they did they might not have been used for a taste that would impart a good taste into the food being cooked. He quotes the Bayi Chayey YD 8 who agrees with his ruling.</ref>		# There is no concern of eating at the house of someone who keeps Kosher but isn't careful about Bet Yosef meat if it is possible that their dishes weren't used within 24 hours.<ref> Yabia Omer YD 5:3:2 is lenient based on the concept of stam kelim sheinan bnei yoman. Tosfot A"Z 38b explains that the reason to be lenient is that their pots probably weren't used in the last 24 hours and even if they did they might not have been used for a taste that would impart a good taste into the food being cooked. He quotes the Bayi Chayey YD 8 who agrees with his ruling.</ref>

	==Sources==		==Sources==
	<references/>		<references/>

Unknown user: /* Kosher vs Glatt */

2021-10-03T16:16:28Z

Kosher vs Glatt

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:16, 3 October 2021
Line 3:		Line 3:
	* The Tur 39:10 writes that the minhag in some places is that they would shake the lungs to remove any adhesions because any adhesions that come off aren't really adhesions since a real adhesion would stay in place even if you rubbed it all day. The minhag cited by the Rama was to crush, rub, and peel off the adhesions and if they come off completely it is kosher.		* The Tur 39:10 writes that the minhag in some places is that they would shake the lungs to remove any adhesions because any adhesions that come off aren't really adhesions since a real adhesion would stay in place even if you rubbed it all day. The minhag cited by the Rama was to crush, rub, and peel off the adhesions and if they come off completely it is kosher.
	* Rishonim who allow mishmush: Minhag of some places (Tur 39:10), Ri Halavan (Kol Bo 101, cited by Bet Yosef 39:11-2), Kol Bo (cited by Darkei Moshe 39:20), Mahari Vayil (cited by Darkei Moshe 39:20), Maharash (cited by Darkei Moshe 39:20), Rosh (according to Maharshal cited by Shach 39:33), Rama 39:13. See also Rabbenu Yerucham (cited by end of Bet Yosef 39:10:2) quoting the lenient position of Chachmei Lunil and Narvona.</ref> While some limit this minhag to adhesions in certain places and only rubbing and scraping, others expand the minhag to include adhesions of all kinds<ref>Rama is only lenient if the adhesions are ksidran, but for shelo ksidran he says not to do mishmush unless it is a hefsed merubeh. Bach 39:15 writes that the minhag is to do mishmush in all cases even shelo ksidran even if it isn't a hefsed and it isn't necessary to protest. Shach 39:37 agrees.		* Rishonim who allow mishmush: Minhag of some places (Tur 39:10), Ri Halavan (Kol Bo 101, cited by Bet Yosef 39:11-2), Kol Bo (cited by Darkei Moshe 39:20), Mahari Vayil (cited by Darkei Moshe 39:20), Maharash (cited by Darkei Moshe 39:20), Rosh (according to Maharshal cited by Shach 39:33), Rama 39:13. See also Rabbenu Yerucham (cited by end of Bet Yosef 39:10:2) quoting the lenient position of Chachmei Lunil and Narvona.</ref> While some limit this minhag to adhesions in certain places and only rubbing and scraping, others expand the minhag to include adhesions of all kinds<ref>Rama is only lenient if the adhesions are ksidran, but for shelo ksidran he says not to do mishmush unless it is a hefsed merubeh. Bach 39:15 writes that the minhag is to do mishmush in all cases even shelo ksidran even if it isn't a hefsed and it isn't necessary to protest. Shach 39:37 agrees.
	</ref> and even allow scraping.<ref>Pri Megadim M"Z 39:17 (cited by Pitchei Teshuva 39:14) forbids scrapping off a adhesion and if the bodek does so the animal is teref. This is implied by Taz 39:17. However, Tiferet Tzvi and Chatom Sofer cited by Pitchei Teshuva 39:14 say that there's something for this minhag of scraping off the sirchot to rely upon. Aruch Hashulchan 39:109 agrees.</ref> The mainstay of Ashkenazic poskim accept and support this minhag.<ref>Rama 39:13, Maharshal (cited by Shach 39:33), and Taz 39:17 all accept the minhag of rubbing off adhesions. Gra 39:26 seems to be strict. Rav Ovadia (Yachava Daat 3:56, Yabia Omer YD 5:3) also quotes the Shlah and Chayei Adam who are strict.</ref> The term ''glatt'' refers to a higher standard in removing adhesions that today has become accepted as the proper standard for Orthodox Jews.<ref>The [https://oukosher.org/blog/feature/what-exactly-is-glatt-kosher/ OU] describes that the practice of gently peeling off adhesions and is better than the manipulation of mashing and massaging the adhesions of the Rama. They say that this practice which started in the 1890s is considered glatt. Similarly, [https://www.star-k.org/articles/kashrus-kurrents/3473/making-the-cut-assuring-that-glatt-really-means-kosher/ Rav Moshe Heinemann] defines Glatt as lungs with adhesions that were exceptionally thin and the adhesion peeled off easily, while kosher means the adhesions were thicker and wider. </ref>		</ref> and even allow scraping.<ref>Pri Megadim M"Z 39:17 (cited by Pitchei Teshuva 39:14) forbids scrapping off a adhesion and if the bodek does so the animal is teref. This is implied by Taz 39:17. However, Tiferet Tzvi and Chatom Sofer cited by Pitchei Teshuva 39:14 say that there's something for this minhag of scraping off the sirchot to rely upon. Aruch Hashulchan 39:109 agrees.</ref> The mainstay of Ashkenazic poskim accept and support this minhag.<ref>Rama 39:13, Maharshal (cited by Shach 39:33), and Taz 39:17 all accept the minhag of rubbing off adhesions. Gra 39:26 seems to be strict. Rav Ovadia (Yachava Daat 3:56, Yabia Omer YD 5:3) also quotes the Shlah and Chayei Adam who are strict.</ref> The term ''glatt'' refers to a higher standard in removing adhesions that today has become accepted as the proper standard for Orthodox Jews.<ref>The [https://oukosher.org/blog/feature/what-exactly-is-glatt-kosher/ OU] describes that the practice of gently peeling off adhesions and is better than the manipulation of mashing and massaging the adhesions of the Rama. They say that this practice which started in the 1890s is considered glatt. Similarly, [https://www.star-k.org/articles/kashrus-kurrents/3473/making-the-cut-assuring-that-glatt-really-means-kosher/ Rav Moshe Heinemann] defines Glatt as lungs with adhesions that were exceptionally thin and the adhesion peeled off easily, while kosher means the adhesions were thicker and wider. Hakashrut Lmaaseh p. 76 writes that up to three adhesions that are removed easily it is still called glatt. Yeshurun v. 28 p. 374 has a letter from Rav Yekutiel Efrati that Rav Elyashiv held that adhesions that are removed very easily with passing a hand gently like spiderwebs (קורי עכביש) and not rubbing should still be labled chalak but not chalak bet yosef. [http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/6918/ Rav Shein] said that Rav Machpud's standard of bet yosef is that the lung is smooth like marble and not sticky paper or spiderwebs (קורי עכביש). </ref>

	==Bet Yosef vs Glatt==		==Bet Yosef vs Glatt==

Unknown user: /* Bet Yosef vs Glatt */

2021-10-03T15:58:24Z

Bet Yosef vs Glatt

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:58, 3 October 2021
Line 8:		Line 8:
	#Unlike Ashkenazic practice, Sephardim are strict not to allow any adhesions on the lungs<ref>The Tur 39:10 writes that the Rashba (Torat Habayit 2:3 34b, responsa 1:304) wrote vehemently against the practice of rubbing off adhesions and held that anyone who does that is feeding terefot to the Jewish people. Rabbenu Tam (as cited by Rabbenu Yerucham in beginning of Bet Yosef 39:10:2) and Rambam (Shechita 11:7-8) as understood by Rav Dovid Ibn Yichya (Terefot n. 14, cited by Bet Yosef 39:10:1) agree with the Rashba. Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 39:10 codifies the opinion of the Rashba. Rav Ovadia (Yachava Daat 3:56, Yabia Omer YD 5:3) quotes many other Sephardi poskim who accept the opinion of the Rashba.</ref> Even according to Sephardim, an adhesion that is easily removed by the passing of a hand gently is permitted.<ref>Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 39:13 quotes Rabbenu Simcha Mvitri who allows an adhesion which was removed by the passing of the hand of a bodek. The Shulchan Aruch's language is even if the hand passed briskly, however, the Taz 39:16 quotes the Maharshal who only allows the passing of the hand gently. This is language of the [https://oukosher.org/blog/feature/what-exactly-is-glatt-kosher/ OU]: "even the Beis Yosef would agree that adhesions that are so tenuous as to separate with ease, via the simple passing-through of the hands of the bodek, are likewise acceptable, and are considered ‘ririn.’"		#Unlike Ashkenazic practice, Sephardim are strict not to allow any adhesions on the lungs<ref>The Tur 39:10 writes that the Rashba (Torat Habayit 2:3 34b, responsa 1:304) wrote vehemently against the practice of rubbing off adhesions and held that anyone who does that is feeding terefot to the Jewish people. Rabbenu Tam (as cited by Rabbenu Yerucham in beginning of Bet Yosef 39:10:2) and Rambam (Shechita 11:7-8) as understood by Rav Dovid Ibn Yichya (Terefot n. 14, cited by Bet Yosef 39:10:1) agree with the Rashba. Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 39:10 codifies the opinion of the Rashba. Rav Ovadia (Yachava Daat 3:56, Yabia Omer YD 5:3) quotes many other Sephardi poskim who accept the opinion of the Rashba.</ref> Even according to Sephardim, an adhesion that is easily removed by the passing of a hand gently is permitted.<ref>Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 39:13 quotes Rabbenu Simcha Mvitri who allows an adhesion which was removed by the passing of the hand of a bodek. The Shulchan Aruch's language is even if the hand passed briskly, however, the Taz 39:16 quotes the Maharshal who only allows the passing of the hand gently. This is language of the [https://oukosher.org/blog/feature/what-exactly-is-glatt-kosher/ OU]: "even the Beis Yosef would agree that adhesions that are so tenuous as to separate with ease, via the simple passing-through of the hands of the bodek, are likewise acceptable, and are considered ‘ririn.’"
	* Another practice that isn't as serious as rubbing is shaking the lungs to remove any parts of the lungs that are stuck. Rishonim who allow shaking:		* Another practice that isn't as serious as rubbing is shaking the lungs to remove any parts of the lungs that are stuck. Rishonim who allow shaking:
	Mar Yakov Goan (Tur 39:10), Rosh (Chullin 3:14, cited by Bet Yosef 39:10:1), Rabbenu Yerucham (15:5:6 124a, cited by Bet Yosef 39:10:1). Beit Yosef 39:10:2 writes that it seems that Rabbenu Yerucham understands that the Rashba would forbid shaking, but Rav Dovid Ibn Yichiya understands that the Rashba would allow it. Discussion in Beit Yosef if shaking only works for a sircha from the lungs to other places or even within the lungs. Today, the Bet Yosef 39:10:2 writes that we don't shake the lungs today because we're not experts in how to do it. Taz 39:15 and Shach 39:31 agree.</ref> at all.<ref>[https://oukosher.org/blog/feature/what-exactly-is-glatt-kosher/ OU] writes "Rabbi Yosef Karo said that that NO adhesions are permitted: one cannot risk their removal, for adhesions do not cover an existing hole. Rather, they develop, and afterwards can detach, and create a hole. We dare not toy with these adhesions, lest we give the animal the appearance of kosher status. This is the (aforementioned) view of the Rashba. “Those authorities require only ‘chalak,’ or totally smooth lungs. This standard is known as ‘Chalak Beit Yosef,’ smooth, as per the Beis Yosef,” Rabbi Klarberg said." This is also the view of [https://www.star-k.org/articles/kashrus-kurrents/3473/making-the-cut-assuring-that-glatt-really-means-kosher/ Rav Moshe Heinemann] that Bet Yosef means that there are no adhesions at all. </ref>		Mar Yakov Goan (Tur 39:10), Rosh (Chullin 3:14, cited by Bet Yosef 39:10:1), Rabbenu Yerucham (15:5:6 124a, cited by Bet Yosef 39:10:1). Beit Yosef 39:10:2 writes that it seems that Rabbenu Yerucham understands that the Rashba would forbid shaking, but Rav Dovid Ibn Yichiya understands that the Rashba would allow it. Discussion in Beit Yosef if shaking only works for a sircha from the lungs to other places or even within the lungs. Today, the Bet Yosef 39:10:2 writes that we don't shake the lungs today because we're not experts in how to do it. Taz 39:15 and Shach 39:31 agree.</ref> at all.<ref>[https://oukosher.org/blog/feature/what-exactly-is-glatt-kosher/ OU] writes "Rabbi Yosef Karo said that that NO adhesions are permitted: one cannot risk their removal, for adhesions do not cover an existing hole. Rather, they develop, and afterwards can detach, and create a hole. We dare not toy with these adhesions, lest we give the animal the appearance of kosher status. This is the (aforementioned) view of the Rashba. “Those authorities require only ‘chalak,’ or totally smooth lungs. This standard is known as ‘Chalak Beit Yosef,’ smooth, as per the Beis Yosef,” Rabbi Klarberg said." This is also the view of [https://www.star-k.org/articles/kashrus-kurrents/3473/making-the-cut-assuring-that-glatt-really-means-kosher/ Rav Moshe Heinemann] that Bet Yosef means that there are no adhesions at all. This seems to be the opinion of [http://halachayomit.co.il/he/Default.aspx?HalachaID=177 Rav Ovadia Yosef] as well.</ref>
	# Sephardim need to be careful to only eat "Bet Yosef" meat because according to Shulchan Aruch even "Glatt Kosher" meat isn't kosher.<Ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:3. Some claim that there are slaughterhouses in America that market their meat as Bet Yosef, but, in fact, [http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/6918/ it is not Bet Yosef]. Rather, it's just meat from South America or labeled such using a lenient definition of what is considered Bet Yosef. One should consult with a rabbi who has extensive knowledge of the Kashrut industry ''and'' Sephardic Halacha to determine which brands are acceptable.</ref>		# Sephardim need to be careful to only eat "Bet Yosef" meat because according to Shulchan Aruch even "Glatt Kosher" meat isn't kosher.<Ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:3. Some claim that there are slaughterhouses in America that market their meat as Bet Yosef, but, in fact, [http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/6918/ it is not Bet Yosef]. Rather, it's just meat from South America or labeled such using a lenient definition of what is considered Bet Yosef. One should consult with a rabbi who has extensive knowledge of the Kashrut industry ''and'' Sephardic Halacha to determine which brands are acceptable.</ref>
	# If a Sephardi is traveling and is invited to a place where they eat "Glatt Kosher" but not "Bet Yosef" it is permitted for him to eat with them, especially if it is a seudat mitzvah.<ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:3 quotes the Dvar Shmuel Avuhav 320 who is lenient for a Sephardi who is traveling to eat regular kosher meat since there's a safek safeka. 1) The meat might be completely kosher even according to the Bet Yosef. 2) Maybe the Rama is correct. Even though generally we need to check out a safek safeka if possible (efshar livarer) the Bach 437 holds that is only true of checking about an action if it was done properly but not to check out if something naturally occurred. Also, the Bet Yosef 437 holds that it is only true of checking if there's a chazaka of isur but if there's no chazaka one doesn't have to check. (See Magen Avraham 437 and Shach YD 187:19 who agree with Bet Yosef.) Therefore, after the lungs were checked to be Glatt there's a chazaka the animal is kosher and the chance of it being non-Bet-Yosef is considered something one doesn't have to check into. In conclusion of this question the Rashba (Chullin 53b) and Shach (Klalei Safek Safeka 110:35) seem to hold that one does need to check the facts of a safek safeka if possible, yet the Shaar Hamelech (Mikvaot Klalim n. 3) argues. Also, since the host might not know, it could be embarrassing to ask, and it might cause a fight one can rely on the opinions that one doesn't need to check into a safek safeka.</ref>		# If a Sephardi is traveling and is invited to a place where they eat "Glatt Kosher" but not "Bet Yosef" it is permitted for him to eat with them, especially if it is a seudat mitzvah.<ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:3 quotes the Dvar Shmuel Avuhav 320 who is lenient for a Sephardi who is traveling to eat regular kosher meat since there's a safek safeka. 1) The meat might be completely kosher even according to the Bet Yosef. 2) Maybe the Rama is correct. Even though generally we need to check out a safek safeka if possible (efshar livarer) the Bach 437 holds that is only true of checking about an action if it was done properly but not to check out if something naturally occurred. Also, the Bet Yosef 437 holds that it is only true of checking if there's a chazaka of isur but if there's no chazaka one doesn't have to check. (See Magen Avraham 437 and Shach YD 187:19 who agree with Bet Yosef.) Therefore, after the lungs were checked to be Glatt there's a chazaka the animal is kosher and the chance of it being non-Bet-Yosef is considered something one doesn't have to check into. In conclusion of this question the Rashba (Chullin 53b) and Shach (Klalei Safek Safeka 110:35) seem to hold that one does need to check the facts of a safek safeka if possible, yet the Shaar Hamelech (Mikvaot Klalim n. 3) argues. Also, since the host might not know, it could be embarrassing to ask, and it might cause a fight one can rely on the opinions that one doesn't need to check into a safek safeka.</ref>

Unknown user at 15:03, 3 October 2021

2021-10-03T15:03:01Z

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 ==Bet Yosef vs Glatt==
 # Sephardim need to be careful to only eat "Bet Yosef" meat because according to Shulchan Aruch even "Glatt Kosher" meat isn't kosher.<Ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:3. Some claim that there are slaughterhouses in America that market their meat as Bet Yosef, but, in fact, [http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/6918/ it is not Bet Yosef]. Rather, it's just meat from South America or labeled such using a lenient definition of what is considered Bet Yosef. One should consult with a rabbi who has extensive knowledge of the Kashrut industry ''and'' Sephardic Halacha to determine which brands are acceptable.</ref>
 # If a Sephardi is traveling and is invited to a place where they eat "Glatt Kosher" but not "Bet Yosef" it is permitted for him to eat with them, especially if it is a seudat mitzvah.<ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:3 quotes the Dvar Shmuel Avuhav 320 who is lenient for a Sephardi who is traveling to eat regular kosher meat since there's a safek safeka. 1) The meat might be completely kosher even according to the Bet Yosef. 2) Maybe the Rama is correct. Even though generally we need to check out a safek safeka if possible (efshar livarer) the Bach 437 holds that is only true of checking about an action if it was done properly but not to check out if something naturally occurred. Also, the Bet Yosef 437 holds that it is only true of checking if there's a chazaka of isur but if there's no chazaka one doesn't have to check. (See Magen Avraham 437 and Shach YD 187:19 who agree with Bet Yosef.) Therefore, after the lungs were checked to be Glatt there's a chazaka the animal is kosher and the chance of it being non-Bet-Yosef is considered something one doesn't have to check into. In conclusion of this question the Rashba (Chullin 53b) and Shach (Klalei Safek Safeka 110:35) seem to hold that one does need to check the facts of a safek safeka if possible, yet the Shaar Hamelech (Mikvaot Klalim n. 3) argues. Also, since the host might not know, it could be embarrassing to ask, and it might cause a fight one can rely on the opinions that one doesn't need to check into a safek safeka.</ref>

Unknown user: /* Bet Yosef vs Glatt */

2020-08-07T21:28:35Z

Bet Yosef vs Glatt

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:28, 7 August 2020
Line 1:		Line 1:
	==Bet Yosef vs Glatt==		==Bet Yosef vs Glatt==
	# Sephardim need to be careful to only eat "Bet Yosef" meat because according to Shulchan Aruch even "Glatt Kosher" meat isn't kosher.<Ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:3. ~~Many kashrut organizations~~ in America ~~claim~~ that their meat is Bet Yosef but, in fact, [http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/6918/ it is not Bet Yosef] ~~but, rather~~, just meat from South America or using a lenient definition of what is considered Bet Yosef. One should consult with a rabbi who has extensive knowledge of the Kashrut industry ''and'' Sephardic Halacha to determine which brands are acceptable.</ref>		# Sephardim need to be careful to only eat "Bet Yosef" meat because according to Shulchan Aruch even "Glatt Kosher" meat isn't kosher.<Ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:3. Some claim that there are slaughterhouses in America that market their meat as Bet Yosef, but, in fact, [http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/6918/ it is not Bet Yosef]. Rather, it's just meat from South America or labeled such using a lenient definition of what is considered Bet Yosef. One should consult with a rabbi who has extensive knowledge of the Kashrut industry ''and'' Sephardic Halacha to determine which brands are acceptable.</ref>
	# If a Sephardi is traveling and is invited to a place where they eat "Glatt Kosher" but not "Bet Yosef" it is permitted for him to eat with them, especially if it is a seudat mitzvah.<ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:3 quotes the Dvar Shmuel Avuhav 320 who is lenient for a Sephardi who is traveling to eat regular kosher meat since there's a safek safeka. 1) The meat might be completely kosher even according to the Bet Yosef. 2) Maybe the Rama is correct. Even though generally we need to check out a safek safeka if possible (efshar livarer) the Bach 437 holds that is only true of checking about an action if it was done properly but not to check out if something naturally occurred. Also, the Bet Yosef 437 holds that it is only true of checking if there's a chazaka of isur but if there's no chazaka one doesn't have to check. (See Magen Avraham 437 and Shach YD 187:19 who agree with Bet Yosef.) Therefore, after the lungs were checked to be Glatt there's a chazaka the animal is kosher and the chance of it being non-Bet-Yosef is considered something one doesn't have to check into. In conclusion of this question the Rashba (Chullin 53b) and Shach (Klalei Safek Safeka 110:35) seem to hold that one does need to check the facts of a safek safeka if possible, yet the Shaar Hamelech (Mikvaot Klalim n. 3) argues. Also, since the host might not know, it could be embarrassing to ask, and it might cause a fight one can rely on the opinions that one doesn't need to check into a safek safeka.</ref>		# If a Sephardi is traveling and is invited to a place where they eat "Glatt Kosher" but not "Bet Yosef" it is permitted for him to eat with them, especially if it is a seudat mitzvah.<ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:3 quotes the Dvar Shmuel Avuhav 320 who is lenient for a Sephardi who is traveling to eat regular kosher meat since there's a safek safeka. 1) The meat might be completely kosher even according to the Bet Yosef. 2) Maybe the Rama is correct. Even though generally we need to check out a safek safeka if possible (efshar livarer) the Bach 437 holds that is only true of checking about an action if it was done properly but not to check out if something naturally occurred. Also, the Bet Yosef 437 holds that it is only true of checking if there's a chazaka of isur but if there's no chazaka one doesn't have to check. (See Magen Avraham 437 and Shach YD 187:19 who agree with Bet Yosef.) Therefore, after the lungs were checked to be Glatt there's a chazaka the animal is kosher and the chance of it being non-Bet-Yosef is considered something one doesn't have to check into. In conclusion of this question the Rashba (Chullin 53b) and Shach (Klalei Safek Safeka 110:35) seem to hold that one does need to check the facts of a safek safeka if possible, yet the Shaar Hamelech (Mikvaot Klalim n. 3) argues. Also, since the host might not know, it could be embarrassing to ask, and it might cause a fight one can rely on the opinions that one doesn't need to check into a safek safeka.</ref>
	# There is no concern of eating at the house of someone who keeps Kosher but isn't careful about Bet Yosef meat if it is possible that they weren't used within 24 hours.<ref> Yabia Omer YD 5:3:2 is lenient based on the concept of stam kelim sheinan bnei yoman. Tosfot A"Z 38b explains that the reason to be lenient is that their pots probably weren't used in the last 24 hours and even if they did they might not have been used for a taste that would impart a good taste into the food being cooked. He quotes the Bayi Chayey YD 8 who agrees with his ruling.</ref>		# There is no concern of eating at the house of someone who keeps Kosher but isn't careful about Bet Yosef meat if it is possible that they weren't used within 24 hours.<ref> Yabia Omer YD 5:3:2 is lenient based on the concept of stam kelim sheinan bnei yoman. Tosfot A"Z 38b explains that the reason to be lenient is that their pots probably weren't used in the last 24 hours and even if they did they might not have been used for a taste that would impart a good taste into the food being cooked. He quotes the Bayi Chayey YD 8 who agrees with his ruling.</ref>

Unknown user: /* Bet Yosef vs Glatt */ moved caution to footnotes and toned down

2020-08-07T21:24:59Z

Bet Yosef vs Glatt: moved caution to footnotes and toned down

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:24, 7 August 2020
Line 1:		Line 1:
	==Bet Yosef vs Glatt==		==Bet Yosef vs Glatt==
	# Sephardim need to be careful to only eat "Bet Yosef" meat because according to Shulchan Aruch even "Glatt Kosher" meat isn't kosher.<Ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:3</ref>		# Sephardim need to be careful to only eat "Bet Yosef" meat because according to Shulchan Aruch even "Glatt Kosher" meat isn't kosher.<Ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:3. Many kashrut organizations in America claim that their meat is Bet Yosef but, in fact, [http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/6918/ it is not Bet Yosef] but, rather, just meat from South America or using a lenient definition of what is considered Bet Yosef. One should consult with a rabbi who has extensive knowledge of the Kashrut industry ''and'' Sephardic Halacha to determine which brands are acceptable.</ref>
	# If a Sephardi is traveling and is invited to a place where they eat "Glatt Kosher" but not "Bet Yosef" it is permitted for him to eat with them, especially if it is a seudat mitzvah.<ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:3 quotes the Dvar Shmuel Avuhav 320 who is lenient for a Sephardi who is traveling to eat regular kosher meat since there's a safek safeka. 1) The meat might be completely kosher even according to the Bet Yosef. 2) Maybe the Rama is correct. Even though generally we need to check out a safek safeka if possible (efshar livarer) the Bach 437 holds that is only true of checking about an action if it was done properly but not to check out if something naturally occurred. Also, the Bet Yosef 437 holds that it is only true of checking if there's a chazaka of isur but if there's no chazaka one doesn't have to check. (See Magen Avraham 437 and Shach YD 187:19 who agree with Bet Yosef.) Therefore, after the lungs were checked to be Glatt there's a chazaka the animal is kosher and the chance of it being non-Bet-Yosef is considered something one doesn't have to check into. In conclusion of this question the Rashba (Chullin 53b) and Shach (Klalei Safek Safeka 110:35) seem to hold that one does need to check the facts of a safek safeka if possible, yet the Shaar Hamelech (Mikvaot Klalim n. 3) argues. Also, since the host might not know, it could be embarrassing to ask, and it might cause a fight one can rely on the opinions that one doesn't need to check into a safek safeka.</ref>		# If a Sephardi is traveling and is invited to a place where they eat "Glatt Kosher" but not "Bet Yosef" it is permitted for him to eat with them, especially if it is a seudat mitzvah.<ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:3 quotes the Dvar Shmuel Avuhav 320 who is lenient for a Sephardi who is traveling to eat regular kosher meat since there's a safek safeka. 1) The meat might be completely kosher even according to the Bet Yosef. 2) Maybe the Rama is correct. Even though generally we need to check out a safek safeka if possible (efshar livarer) the Bach 437 holds that is only true of checking about an action if it was done properly but not to check out if something naturally occurred. Also, the Bet Yosef 437 holds that it is only true of checking if there's a chazaka of isur but if there's no chazaka one doesn't have to check. (See Magen Avraham 437 and Shach YD 187:19 who agree with Bet Yosef.) Therefore, after the lungs were checked to be Glatt there's a chazaka the animal is kosher and the chance of it being non-Bet-Yosef is considered something one doesn't have to check into. In conclusion of this question the Rashba (Chullin 53b) and Shach (Klalei Safek Safeka 110:35) seem to hold that one does need to check the facts of a safek safeka if possible, yet the Shaar Hamelech (Mikvaot Klalim n. 3) argues. Also, since the host might not know, it could be embarrassing to ask, and it might cause a fight one can rely on the opinions that one doesn't need to check into a safek safeka.</ref>
	# There is no concern of eating at the house of someone who keeps Kosher but isn't careful about Bet Yosef meat if it is possible that they weren't used within 24 hours.<ref> Yabia Omer YD 5:3:2 is lenient based on the concept of stam kelim sheinan bnei yoman. Tosfot A"Z 38b explains that the reason to be lenient is that their pots probably weren't used in the last 24 hours and even if they did they might not have been used for a taste that would impart a good taste into the food being cooked. He quotes the Bayi Chayey YD 8 who agrees with his ruling.</ref>		# There is no concern of eating at the house of someone who keeps Kosher but isn't careful about Bet Yosef meat if it is possible that they weren't used within 24 hours.<ref> Yabia Omer YD 5:3:2 is lenient based on the concept of stam kelim sheinan bnei yoman. Tosfot A"Z 38b explains that the reason to be lenient is that their pots probably weren't used in the last 24 hours and even if they did they might not have been used for a taste that would impart a good taste into the food being cooked. He quotes the Bayi Chayey YD 8 who agrees with his ruling.</ref>
	* [http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/6918/ Rabbi Yudel Shain's speech on Headlines (about min 47)] clarified that many hashgacha's in America that claim that they are Bet Yosef are in fact not Bet Yosef but just meat from South America or using a lenient definition of what is considered Bet Yosef. The only hashgacha's that he recommended and knows that they have good standards and keep them for Bet Yosef are Solomon's, Fischel's, and Birdsborough Meat. Fischel's is the same company as Solomon's and is even better. He thought that Meal Mart, Agristar, and Aron's standards of Bet Yosef aren't in fact Bet Yosef.

	==Sources==		==Sources==
	<references/>		<references/>

Unknown user: /* Bet Yosef vs Glatt */

2020-08-07T21:14:09Z

Bet Yosef vs Glatt

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:14, 7 August 2020
Line 3:		Line 3:
	# If a Sephardi is traveling and is invited to a place where they eat "Glatt Kosher" but not "Bet Yosef" it is permitted for him to eat with them, especially if it is a seudat mitzvah.<ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:3 quotes the Dvar Shmuel Avuhav 320 who is lenient for a Sephardi who is traveling to eat regular kosher meat since there's a safek safeka. 1) The meat might be completely kosher even according to the Bet Yosef. 2) Maybe the Rama is correct. Even though generally we need to check out a safek safeka if possible (efshar livarer) the Bach 437 holds that is only true of checking about an action if it was done properly but not to check out if something naturally occurred. Also, the Bet Yosef 437 holds that it is only true of checking if there's a chazaka of isur but if there's no chazaka one doesn't have to check. (See Magen Avraham 437 and Shach YD 187:19 who agree with Bet Yosef.) Therefore, after the lungs were checked to be Glatt there's a chazaka the animal is kosher and the chance of it being non-Bet-Yosef is considered something one doesn't have to check into. In conclusion of this question the Rashba (Chullin 53b) and Shach (Klalei Safek Safeka 110:35) seem to hold that one does need to check the facts of a safek safeka if possible, yet the Shaar Hamelech (Mikvaot Klalim n. 3) argues. Also, since the host might not know, it could be embarrassing to ask, and it might cause a fight one can rely on the opinions that one doesn't need to check into a safek safeka.</ref>		# If a Sephardi is traveling and is invited to a place where they eat "Glatt Kosher" but not "Bet Yosef" it is permitted for him to eat with them, especially if it is a seudat mitzvah.<ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:3 quotes the Dvar Shmuel Avuhav 320 who is lenient for a Sephardi who is traveling to eat regular kosher meat since there's a safek safeka. 1) The meat might be completely kosher even according to the Bet Yosef. 2) Maybe the Rama is correct. Even though generally we need to check out a safek safeka if possible (efshar livarer) the Bach 437 holds that is only true of checking about an action if it was done properly but not to check out if something naturally occurred. Also, the Bet Yosef 437 holds that it is only true of checking if there's a chazaka of isur but if there's no chazaka one doesn't have to check. (See Magen Avraham 437 and Shach YD 187:19 who agree with Bet Yosef.) Therefore, after the lungs were checked to be Glatt there's a chazaka the animal is kosher and the chance of it being non-Bet-Yosef is considered something one doesn't have to check into. In conclusion of this question the Rashba (Chullin 53b) and Shach (Klalei Safek Safeka 110:35) seem to hold that one does need to check the facts of a safek safeka if possible, yet the Shaar Hamelech (Mikvaot Klalim n. 3) argues. Also, since the host might not know, it could be embarrassing to ask, and it might cause a fight one can rely on the opinions that one doesn't need to check into a safek safeka.</ref>
	# There is no concern of eating at the house of someone who keeps Kosher but isn't careful about Bet Yosef meat if it is possible that they weren't used within 24 hours.<ref> Yabia Omer YD 5:3:2 is lenient based on the concept of stam kelim sheinan bnei yoman. Tosfot A"Z 38b explains that the reason to be lenient is that their pots probably weren't used in the last 24 hours and even if they did they might not have been used for a taste that would impart a good taste into the food being cooked. He quotes the Bayi Chayey YD 8 who agrees with his ruling.</ref>		# There is no concern of eating at the house of someone who keeps Kosher but isn't careful about Bet Yosef meat if it is possible that they weren't used within 24 hours.<ref> Yabia Omer YD 5:3:2 is lenient based on the concept of stam kelim sheinan bnei yoman. Tosfot A"Z 38b explains that the reason to be lenient is that their pots probably weren't used in the last 24 hours and even if they did they might not have been used for a taste that would impart a good taste into the food being cooked. He quotes the Bayi Chayey YD 8 who agrees with his ruling.</ref>
	* [http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/6918/ Rabbi ~~Yudal Shein~~'s speech on Headlines (about min 47)] clarified that many hashgacha's in America that claim that they are Bet Yosef are in fact not Bet Yosef but just meat from South America or using a lenient definition of what is considered Bet Yosef. The only hashgacha's that he recommended and knows that they have good standards and keep them for Bet Yosef are Solomon's, Fischel's, and Birdsborough Meat. Fischel's is the same company as Solomon's and is even better. He thought that Meal Mart, Agristar, and Aron's standards of Bet Yosef aren't in fact Bet Yosef.		* [http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/6918/ Rabbi Yudel Shain's speech on Headlines (about min 47)] clarified that many hashgacha's in America that claim that they are Bet Yosef are in fact not Bet Yosef but just meat from South America or using a lenient definition of what is considered Bet Yosef. The only hashgacha's that he recommended and knows that they have good standards and keep them for Bet Yosef are Solomon's, Fischel's, and Birdsborough Meat. Fischel's is the same company as Solomon's and is even better. He thought that Meal Mart, Agristar, and Aron's standards of Bet Yosef aren't in fact Bet Yosef.

	==Sources==		==Sources==
	<references/>		<references/>

YitzchakSultan: /* Bet Yosef vs Glatt */

2018-10-22T22:01:19Z

Bet Yosef vs Glatt

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:01, 22 October 2018
Line 2:		Line 2:
	# Sephardim need to be careful to only eat "Bet Yosef" meat because according to Shulchan Aruch even "Glatt Kosher" meat isn't kosher.<Ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:3</ref>		# Sephardim need to be careful to only eat "Bet Yosef" meat because according to Shulchan Aruch even "Glatt Kosher" meat isn't kosher.<Ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:3</ref>
	# If a Sephardi is traveling and is invited to a place where they eat "Glatt Kosher" but not "Bet Yosef" it is permitted for him to eat with them, especially if it is a seudat mitzvah.<ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:3 quotes the Dvar Shmuel Avuhav 320 who is lenient for a Sephardi who is traveling to eat regular kosher meat since there's a safek safeka. 1) The meat might be completely kosher even according to the Bet Yosef. 2) Maybe the Rama is correct. Even though generally we need to check out a safek safeka if possible (efshar livarer) the Bach 437 holds that is only true of checking about an action if it was done properly but not to check out if something naturally occurred. Also, the Bet Yosef 437 holds that it is only true of checking if there's a chazaka of isur but if there's no chazaka one doesn't have to check. (See Magen Avraham 437 and Shach YD 187:19 who agree with Bet Yosef.) Therefore, after the lungs were checked to be Glatt there's a chazaka the animal is kosher and the chance of it being non-Bet-Yosef is considered something one doesn't have to check into. In conclusion of this question the Rashba (Chullin 53b) and Shach (Klalei Safek Safeka 110:35) seem to hold that one does need to check the facts of a safek safeka if possible, yet the Shaar Hamelech (Mikvaot Klalim n. 3) argues. Also, since the host might not know, it could be embarrassing to ask, and it might cause a fight one can rely on the opinions that one doesn't need to check into a safek safeka.</ref>		# If a Sephardi is traveling and is invited to a place where they eat "Glatt Kosher" but not "Bet Yosef" it is permitted for him to eat with them, especially if it is a seudat mitzvah.<ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:3 quotes the Dvar Shmuel Avuhav 320 who is lenient for a Sephardi who is traveling to eat regular kosher meat since there's a safek safeka. 1) The meat might be completely kosher even according to the Bet Yosef. 2) Maybe the Rama is correct. Even though generally we need to check out a safek safeka if possible (efshar livarer) the Bach 437 holds that is only true of checking about an action if it was done properly but not to check out if something naturally occurred. Also, the Bet Yosef 437 holds that it is only true of checking if there's a chazaka of isur but if there's no chazaka one doesn't have to check. (See Magen Avraham 437 and Shach YD 187:19 who agree with Bet Yosef.) Therefore, after the lungs were checked to be Glatt there's a chazaka the animal is kosher and the chance of it being non-Bet-Yosef is considered something one doesn't have to check into. In conclusion of this question the Rashba (Chullin 53b) and Shach (Klalei Safek Safeka 110:35) seem to hold that one does need to check the facts of a safek safeka if possible, yet the Shaar Hamelech (Mikvaot Klalim n. 3) argues. Also, since the host might not know, it could be embarrassing to ask, and it might cause a fight one can rely on the opinions that one doesn't need to check into a safek safeka.</ref>
	# There is no concern of eating at the house of someone who keeps Kosher but isn't careful about Bet Yosef meat if it is possible that they weren't used within 24 hours.<ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:3:2 is lenient based on the concept of stam kelim sheinan bnei yoman. Tosfot A"Z 38b explains that the reason to be lenient is that their pots probably weren't used in the last 24 hours and even if they did they might not have been used for a taste that would impart a good taste into the food being cooked. He quotes the Bayi Chayey YD 8 who agrees.<ref>		# There is no concern of eating at the house of someone who keeps Kosher but isn't careful about Bet Yosef meat if it is possible that they weren't used within 24 hours.<ref> Yabia Omer YD 5:3:2 is lenient based on the concept of stam kelim sheinan bnei yoman. Tosfot A"Z 38b explains that the reason to be lenient is that their pots probably weren't used in the last 24 hours and even if they did they might not have been used for a taste that would impart a good taste into the food being cooked. He quotes the Bayi Chayey YD 8 who agrees with his ruling.</ref>
	* [http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/6918/ Rabbi Yudal Shein's speech on Headlines (about min 47)] clarified that many hashgacha's in America that claim that they are Bet Yosef are in fact not Bet Yosef but just meat from South America or using a lenient definition of what is considered Bet Yosef. The only hashgacha's that he recommended and knows that they have good standards and keep them for Bet Yosef are Solomon's, Fischel's, and Birdsborough Meat. Fischel's is the same company as Solomon's and is even better. He thought that Meal Mart, Agristar, and Aron's standards of Bet Yosef aren't in fact Bet Yosef.		* [http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/6918/ Rabbi Yudal Shein's speech on Headlines (about min 47)] clarified that many hashgacha's in America that claim that they are Bet Yosef are in fact not Bet Yosef but just meat from South America or using a lenient definition of what is considered Bet Yosef. The only hashgacha's that he recommended and knows that they have good standards and keep them for Bet Yosef are Solomon's, Fischel's, and Birdsborough Meat. Fischel's is the same company as Solomon's and is even better. He thought that Meal Mart, Agristar, and Aron's standards of Bet Yosef aren't in fact Bet Yosef.

	==Sources==		==Sources==
	<references/>		<references/>

YitzchakSultan: Created page with "==Bet Yosef vs Glatt== # Sephardim need to be careful to only eat "Bet Yosef" meat because according to Shulchan Aruch even "Glatt Kosher" meat isn't kosher.Yabia Omer YD..."

2018-10-22T22:00:16Z

Created page with "==Bet Yosef vs Glatt== # Sephardim need to be careful to only eat "Bet Yosef" meat because according to Shulchan Aruch even "Glatt Kosher" meat isn't kosher.<Ref>Yabia Omer YD..."

New page

==Bet Yosef vs Glatt==
# Sephardim need to be careful to only eat "Bet Yosef" meat because according to Shulchan Aruch even "Glatt Kosher" meat isn't kosher.<Ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:3</ref>
# If a Sephardi is traveling and is invited to a place where they eat "Glatt Kosher" but not "Bet Yosef" it is permitted for him to eat with them, especially if it is a seudat mitzvah.<ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:3 quotes the Dvar Shmuel Avuhav 320 who is lenient for a Sephardi who is traveling to eat regular kosher meat since there's a safek safeka. 1) The meat might be completely kosher even according to the Bet Yosef. 2) Maybe the Rama is correct. Even though generally we need to check out a safek safeka if possible (efshar livarer) the Bach 437 holds that is only true of checking about an action if it was done properly but not to check out if something naturally occurred. Also, the Bet Yosef 437 holds that it is only true of checking if there's a chazaka of isur but if there's no chazaka one doesn't have to check. (See Magen Avraham 437 and Shach YD 187:19 who agree with Bet Yosef.) Therefore, after the lungs were checked to be Glatt there's a chazaka the animal is kosher and the chance of it being non-Bet-Yosef is considered something one doesn't have to check into. In conclusion of this question the Rashba (Chullin 53b) and Shach (Klalei Safek Safeka 110:35) seem to hold that one does need to check the facts of a safek safeka if possible, yet the Shaar Hamelech (Mikvaot Klalim n. 3) argues. Also, since the host might not know, it could be embarrassing to ask, and it might cause a fight one can rely on the opinions that one doesn't need to check into a safek safeka.</ref>
# There is no concern of eating at the house of someone who keeps Kosher but isn't careful about Bet Yosef meat if it is possible that they weren't used within 24 hours.<ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:3:2 is lenient based on the concept of stam kelim sheinan bnei yoman. Tosfot A"Z 38b explains that the reason to be lenient is that their pots probably weren't used in the last 24 hours and even if they did they might not have been used for a taste that would impart a good taste into the food being cooked. He quotes the Bayi Chayey YD 8 who agrees.<ref>
* [http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/6918/ Rabbi Yudal Shein's speech on Headlines (about min 47)] clarified that many hashgacha's in America that claim that they are Bet Yosef are in fact not Bet Yosef but just meat from South America or using a lenient definition of what is considered Bet Yosef. The only hashgacha's that he recommended and knows that they have good standards and keep them for Bet Yosef are Solomon's, Fischel's, and Birdsborough Meat. Fischel's is the same company as Solomon's and is even better. He thought that Meal Mart, Agristar, and Aron's standards of Bet Yosef aren't in fact Bet Yosef.

==Sources==
<references/>