Barech Aleinu - Revision history

YitzchakSultan1: /* When to say it */

2023-12-05T16:36:00Z

When to say it

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:36, 5 December 2023
Line 1:		Line 1:
	==When to say it==		==When to say it==

	#During the winter one must say VeTen Tal UMatar Lebracha in Birkat HaShanim (Brachenu / [[Barech]] Aleinu). For this halacha the beginning of the winter is considered in [[Israel]] from the seventh of Cheshvan <ref>Sh"t Yechave Daat 1:73, Tur and Shulchan Aruch 117:1. The logic is based on a Mishna in Masechet Taanit 10a which says that since people were coming to Yerushalayim for Aliya Laregel, we wanted to give two weeks after Sukkot for them to return home before praying for rain so that they don't get rained on during their travels. </ref> and in the diaspora from the night of December 4th (and December 5th the year '''before<ref>Artscroll Siddur (Yitzchak Yiranen p. 120, Nachlat Shimon p.104) writes that we begin to say VeTen Tal on the night of December 4th except if that year precedes a leap year. In the year that precedes a leap year (such as 2023 or 2027) we begin Veten Tal on the night of December 5th. [https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2060070/jewish/Why-Is-the-Prayer-for-Rain-Based-on-the-Civil-Calendar.htm Chabad], Koren Siddur (Koren Mesorat Harav p. 239), [https://outorah.org/p/22451/ OU], and Halacha Brurah 117:5 agree.		#During the winter one must say VeTen Tal UMatar Lebracha in Birkat HaShanim (Brachenu / [[Barech]] Aleinu). For this halacha the beginning of the winter is considered in [[Israel]] from the seventh of Cheshvan <ref>Sh"t Yechave Daat 1:73, Tur and Shulchan Aruch 117:1. The logic is based on a Mishna in Masechet Taanit 10a which says that since people were coming to Yerushalayim for Aliya Laregel, we wanted to give two weeks after Sukkot for them to return home before praying for rain so that they don't get rained on during their travels. </ref> and in the diaspora from the night of December 4th (and December 5th the year '''before<ref>Artscroll Siddur (Yitzchak Yiranen p. 120, Nachlat Shimon p.104) writes that we begin to say VeTen Tal on the night of December 4th except if that year precedes a leap year. In the year that precedes a leap year (such as 2023 or 2027) we begin Veten Tal on the night of December 5th. [https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2060070/jewish/Why-Is-the-Prayer-for-Rain-Based-on-the-Civil-Calendar.htm Chabad], Koren Siddur (Koren Mesorat Harav p. 239), [https://outorah.org/p/22451/ OU], and Halacha Brurah 117:5 agree. This understanding is based on counting 13 days from November 22nd that Avudraham wrote (because of the changes from the Julian calendar to Gregorian calendar until today). However, Avudraham also wrote that in a year that February had 29th days then Veten tal is pushed off one day. He seems clearly to be discussing the secular leap year and not the year preceding a secular leap year. However, Sefer Birchat Hashanim p. 96 discusses this issue and writes in the name of Maharam Shik that there's some mistake in the Avudraham and it should say that Veten tal is pushed off if the next year is going to have February with 29 days. He also shows that the mathematical calculation and Tashbetz are clear that the year before the secular leap year is pushed off one day and not the year after the leap year. [See Teshuvot Vehanhagot 3:42 who writes that the minhag in South Africa was to start Ten Tal on December 5th or 6th, depending on the year (and not 4th or 5th). Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 19:5 writes that we start Ten Tal on December 4th or 5th. Though, that was written in the 1800s and today after 1900 that would be the equivalent to December 5th or 6th.] </ref>''' a civil leap year, such as Tuesday December 5th 2023). The end of the winter is [[Mincha]] of Erev [[Pesach]] and after that we stop saying VeTen Tal UMatar Lebracha in Birkat HaShanim. <ref>Shulchan Aruch O.C. 117:1. Artscroll Siddur (Yitzchak Yiranen p. 120, Nachlat Shimon p.104) writes that we begin to say VeTen Tal on the night of December 4th except if that year precedes a leap year. Halacha Brurah 117:5 agrees.

	This understanding is based on counting 13 days from November 22nd that Avudraham wrote (because of the changes from the Julian calendar to Gregorian calendar until today). However, Avudraham also wrote that in a year that February had 29th days then Veten tal is pushed off one day. He seems clearly to be discussing the secular leap year and not the year preceding a secular leap year. However, Sefer Birchat Hashanim p. 96 discusses this issue and writes in the name of Maharam Shik that there's some mistake in the Avudraham and it should say that Veten tal is pushed off if the next year is going to have February with 29 days. He also shows that the mathematical calculation and Tashbetz are clear that the year before the secular leap year is pushed off one day and not the year after the leap year.		*Briefly, the autumn equinox is on September 23rd, however, due to the discrepancy between the Julian calendar and Shmuel's calendar, the equinox is assumed to be on September 21st. For an explanation of this point, see [http://www.judaicseminar.org/halakhot/talumatar.pdf?vm=r&s=1 an article by Rabbi Shamah].
			*Shulchan Aruch 117:1 writes that outside [[Israel]] we begin saying VeTen Tal on the night of the 60th day from the equinox. To account for the difference between the Julian calendar and our commonly used civil calendar (Gregorian calendar), we have to review a bit of history. In 1582, the Gregorian calendar was pushed forward 10 days and skips one day every century on the century, except for years divisible by 400. That is, in 1600, the Gregorian calendar was 10 days ahead of the Julian calendar. By 1700, the Gregorian calendar was 11 days ahead. Continuing in this way, we see that by 2000 the Gregorian calendar was 13 days ahead of the Julian calendar. Since 2000 is divisible by 400 there was no leap year and the Gregorian calendar remains 13 days ahead of the Julian calendar until 2100. For more information about this calculation see the Wikipedia page on [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar#Difference_between_Gregorian_and_Julian_calendar_dates Gregorian calendar].
	[See Teshuvot Vehanhagot 3:42 who writes that the minhag in South Africa was to start Ten Tal on December 5th or 6th, depending on the year (and not 4th or 5th). Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 19:5 writes that we start Ten Tal on December 4th or 5th. Though, that was written in the 1800s and today after 1900 that would be the equivalent to December 5th or 6th.] </ref>''' a civil leap year, such as Tuesday December 5th 2023). The end of the winter is [[Mincha]] of Erev [[Pesach]] and after that we stop saying VeTen Tal UMatar Lebracha in Birkat HaShanim. <ref>Shulchan Aruch O.C. 117:1, Artscroll Siddur (Nachlat Shimon p.104) writes that we begin to say VeTen Tal on the night of December 4th except if that year precedes a leap year. Halacha Brurah 117:5 writes that in a leap year (on a Hebrew calendar, December and February would be in the same year) we begin saying VeTen Tal on the night of December 5th.		*Counting 60 days from September 21st results in November 21st. Counting 13 days from then to account for the difference between the Julian and Gregorian calendar, we arrive at the night of December 4th. See [http://www.lookstein.org/articles/veten_tal.htm?vm=r&s=1 this article by Rabbi Sokolow] for a lengthy explanation of this topic.

	*Briefly, the ~~winter Equinox (formally, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equinox Southward Equinox])~~ is on September 23rd, however, due to the discrepancy between the Julian calendar and Shmuel's calendar, the equinox is assumed to be on September 21st. For an explanation of this point, see [http://www.judaicseminar.org/halakhot/talumatar.pdf?vm=r&s=1 an article by Rabbi Shamah].
	*Shulchan Aruch 117:1 writes that outside [[Israel]] we begin saying VeTen Tal on the night of the 60th day from the equinox. To account for the difference between the Julian calendar and our commonly used civil calendar (Gregorian calendar), we have to review a bit of history. In 1582 the Gregorian calendar was pushed forward 10 days and skips one day every century on the century, except for years divisible by 400. That is, in 1600, the Gregorian calendar was 10 days ahead of the Julian calendar. By 1700, the Gregorian calendar was 11 days ahead. Continuing in this way, we see that by 2000 the Gregorian calendar was 13 days ahead of the Julian calendar. Since 2000 is divisible by 400 there was no leap year and the Gregorian calendar remains 13 days ahead of the Julian calendar until 2100. For more information about this calculation see the Wikipedia page on [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar#Difference_between_Gregorian_and_Julian_calendar_dates Gregorian calendar].
	*Counting 60 days from September 21st results in November 21st. Counting 13 from then to account for the difference between the Julian and Gregorian calendar, we arrive at the night of December 4th. See [http://www.lookstein.org/articles/veten_tal.htm?vm=r&s=1 this article by Rabbi Sokolow] for ~~more sources on~~ this topic.
	</ref>		</ref>

YitzchakSultan1: /* When to say it */

2023-12-05T16:18:44Z

When to say it

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:18, 5 December 2023
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	==When to say it==		==When to say it==

	#During the winter one must say VeTen Tal UMatar Lebracha in Birkat HaShanim (Brachenu / [[Barech]] Aleinu). For this halacha the beginning of the winter is considered in [[Israel]] from the seventh of Cheshvan <ref>Sh"t Yechave Daat 1:73, Tur and Shulchan Aruch 117:1. The logic is based on a Mishna in Masechet Taanit 10a which says that since people were coming to Yerushalayim for Aliya Laregel, we wanted to give two weeks after Sukkot for them to return home before praying for rain so that they don't get rained on during their travels. </ref> and in the diaspora from the night of December 4th (and December 5th the year '''before<ref>Artscroll Siddur (Yitzchak Yiranen p. 120, Nachlat Shimon p.104) writes that we begin to say VeTen Tal on the night of December 4th except if that year precedes a leap year. In the year that precedes a leap year (such as 2023 or 2027) we begin Veten Tal on the night of December 5th. [https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2060070/jewish/Why-Is-the-Prayer-for-Rain-Based-on-the-Civil-Calendar.htm~~<nowiki>~~ Chabad], Koren Siddur (Koren Mesorat Harav p. 239), [~~</nowiki>~~https://outorah.org/p/22451/~~<nowiki>~~ OU], and Halacha Brurah 117:5 agree. ~~</nowiki>~~		#During the winter one must say VeTen Tal UMatar Lebracha in Birkat HaShanim (Brachenu / [[Barech]] Aleinu). For this halacha the beginning of the winter is considered in [[Israel]] from the seventh of Cheshvan <ref>Sh"t Yechave Daat 1:73, Tur and Shulchan Aruch 117:1. The logic is based on a Mishna in Masechet Taanit 10a which says that since people were coming to Yerushalayim for Aliya Laregel, we wanted to give two weeks after Sukkot for them to return home before praying for rain so that they don't get rained on during their travels. </ref> and in the diaspora from the night of December 4th (and December 5th the year '''before<ref>Artscroll Siddur (Yitzchak Yiranen p. 120, Nachlat Shimon p.104) writes that we begin to say VeTen Tal on the night of December 4th except if that year precedes a leap year. In the year that precedes a leap year (such as 2023 or 2027) we begin Veten Tal on the night of December 5th. [https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2060070/jewish/Why-Is-the-Prayer-for-Rain-Based-on-the-Civil-Calendar.htm Chabad], Koren Siddur (Koren Mesorat Harav p. 239), [https://outorah.org/p/22451/ OU], and Halacha Brurah 117:5 agree.

	This understanding is based on counting 13 days from November 22nd that Avudraham wrote (because of the changes from the Julian calendar to Gregorian calendar until today). However, Avudraham also wrote that in a year that February had 29th days then Veten tal is pushed off one day. He seems clearly to be discussing the secular leap year and not the year preceding a secular leap year. However, Sefer Birchat Hashanim p. 96 discusses this issue and writes in the name of Maharam Shik that there's some mistake in the Avudraham and it should say that Veten tal is pushed off if the next year is going to have February with 29 days. He also shows that the mathematical calculation and Tashbetz are clear that the year before the secular leap year is pushed off one day and not the year after the leap year.		This understanding is based on counting 13 days from November 22nd that Avudraham wrote (because of the changes from the Julian calendar to Gregorian calendar until today). However, Avudraham also wrote that in a year that February had 29th days then Veten tal is pushed off one day. He seems clearly to be discussing the secular leap year and not the year preceding a secular leap year. However, Sefer Birchat Hashanim p. 96 discusses this issue and writes in the name of Maharam Shik that there's some mistake in the Avudraham and it should say that Veten tal is pushed off if the next year is going to have February with 29 days. He also shows that the mathematical calculation and Tashbetz are clear that the year before the secular leap year is pushed off one day and not the year after the leap year.

YitzchakSultan1: /* When to say it */

2023-12-05T16:17:36Z

When to say it

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:17, 5 December 2023
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	==When to say it==		==When to say it==

	#During the winter one must say VeTen Tal UMatar Lebracha in Birkat HaShanim (Brachenu / [[Barech]] Aleinu). For this halacha the beginning of the winter is considered in [[Israel]] from the seventh of Cheshvan <ref>Sh"t Yechave Daat 1:73, Tur and Shulchan Aruch 117:1. The logic is based on a Mishna in Masechet Taanit 10a which says that since people were coming to Yerushalayim for Aliya Laregel, we wanted to give two weeks after Sukkot for them to return home before praying for rain so that they don't get rained on during their travels. </ref> and in the diaspora from the night of December 4th (and December 5th the year '''before<ref>Artscroll Siddur (Yitzchak Yiranen p. 120, Nachlat Shimon p.104) writes that we begin to say VeTen Tal on the night of December 4th except if that year precedes a leap year. In the year that precedes a leap year (such as 2023 or 2027) we begin Veten Tal on the night of December 5th. Koren Siddur (Koren Mesorat Harav p. 239), and Halacha Brurah 117:5 agree.		#During the winter one must say VeTen Tal UMatar Lebracha in Birkat HaShanim (Brachenu / [[Barech]] Aleinu). For this halacha the beginning of the winter is considered in [[Israel]] from the seventh of Cheshvan <ref>Sh"t Yechave Daat 1:73, Tur and Shulchan Aruch 117:1. The logic is based on a Mishna in Masechet Taanit 10a which says that since people were coming to Yerushalayim for Aliya Laregel, we wanted to give two weeks after Sukkot for them to return home before praying for rain so that they don't get rained on during their travels. </ref> and in the diaspora from the night of December 4th (and December 5th the year '''before<ref>Artscroll Siddur (Yitzchak Yiranen p. 120, Nachlat Shimon p.104) writes that we begin to say VeTen Tal on the night of December 4th except if that year precedes a leap year. In the year that precedes a leap year (such as 2023 or 2027) we begin Veten Tal on the night of December 5th. [https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2060070/jewish/Why-Is-the-Prayer-for-Rain-Based-on-the-Civil-Calendar.htm<nowiki> Chabad], Koren Siddur (Koren Mesorat Harav p. 239), [</nowiki>https://outorah.org/p/22451/<nowiki> OU], and Halacha Brurah 117:5 agree. </nowiki>

	This understanding is based on counting 13 days from November 22nd that Avudraham wrote (because of the changes from the Julian calendar to Gregorian calendar until today). However, Avudraham also wrote that in a year that February had 29th days then Veten tal is pushed off one day. He seems clearly to be discussing the secular leap year and not the year preceding a secular leap year. However, Sefer Birchat Hashanim p. 96 discusses this issue and writes in the name of Maharam Shik that there's some mistake in the Avudraham and it should say that Veten tal is pushed off if the next year is going to have February with 29 days. He also shows that the mathematical calculation and Tashbetz are clear that the year before the secular leap year is pushed off one day and not the year after the leap year.		This understanding is based on counting 13 days from November 22nd that Avudraham wrote (because of the changes from the Julian calendar to Gregorian calendar until today). However, Avudraham also wrote that in a year that February had 29th days then Veten tal is pushed off one day. He seems clearly to be discussing the secular leap year and not the year preceding a secular leap year. However, Sefer Birchat Hashanim p. 96 discusses this issue and writes in the name of Maharam Shik that there's some mistake in the Avudraham and it should say that Veten tal is pushed off if the next year is going to have February with 29 days. He also shows that the mathematical calculation and Tashbetz are clear that the year before the secular leap year is pushed off one day and not the year after the leap year.

YitzchakSultan1: /* When to say it */

2023-12-05T16:13:53Z

When to say it

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:13, 5 December 2023
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	==When to say it==		==When to say it==

	#During the winter one must say VeTen Tal UMatar Lebracha in Birkat HaShanim (Brachenu / [[Barech]] Aleinu). For this halacha the beginning of the winter is considered in [[Israel]] from the seventh of Cheshvan <ref>Sh"t Yechave Daat 1:73, Tur and Shulchan Aruch 117:1. The logic is based on a Mishna in Masechet Taanit 10a which says that since people were coming to Yerushalayim for Aliya Laregel, we wanted to give two weeks after Sukkot for them to return home before praying for rain so that they don't get rained on during their travels. </ref> and in the diaspora from the night of December 4th (and December 5th the year '''before~~''' a civil leap year, such as Tuesday December 5th 2023).~~<ref>Artscroll Siddur (Yitzchak Yiranen p. 120, Nachlat Shimon p.104) writes that we begin to say VeTen Tal on the night of December 4th except if that year precedes a leap year. Koren Siddur (Koren Mesorat Harav p. 239), and Halacha Brurah 117:5 agree.		#During the winter one must say VeTen Tal UMatar Lebracha in Birkat HaShanim (Brachenu / [[Barech]] Aleinu). For this halacha the beginning of the winter is considered in [[Israel]] from the seventh of Cheshvan <ref>Sh"t Yechave Daat 1:73, Tur and Shulchan Aruch 117:1. The logic is based on a Mishna in Masechet Taanit 10a which says that since people were coming to Yerushalayim for Aliya Laregel, we wanted to give two weeks after Sukkot for them to return home before praying for rain so that they don't get rained on during their travels. </ref> and in the diaspora from the night of December 4th (and December 5th the year '''before<ref>Artscroll Siddur (Yitzchak Yiranen p. 120, Nachlat Shimon p.104) writes that we begin to say VeTen Tal on the night of December 4th except if that year precedes a leap year. In the year that precedes a leap year (such as 2023 or 2027) we begin Veten Tal on the night of December 5th. Koren Siddur (Koren Mesorat Harav p. 239), and Halacha Brurah 117:5 agree.

	See Teshuvot Vehanhagot 3:42 who writes that the minhag in South Africa was to start Ten Tal on December 5th or 6th, depending on the year (and not 4th or 5th). Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 19:5 writes that we start Ten Tal on December 4th or 5th. Though, that was written in the 1800s and today after 1900 that would be the equivalent to December 5th or 6th. </ref> The end of the winter is [[Mincha]] of Erev [[Pesach]] and after that we stop saying VeTen Tal UMatar Lebracha in Birkat HaShanim. <ref>Shulchan Aruch O.C. 117:1, Artscroll Siddur (Nachlat Shimon p.104) writes that we begin to say VeTen Tal on the night of December 4th except if that year precedes a leap year. Halacha Brurah 117:5 writes that in a leap year (on a Hebrew calendar, December and February would be in the same year) we begin saying VeTen Tal on the night of December 5th.		This understanding is based on counting 13 days from November 22nd that Avudraham wrote (because of the changes from the Julian calendar to Gregorian calendar until today). However, Avudraham also wrote that in a year that February had 29th days then Veten tal is pushed off one day. He seems clearly to be discussing the secular leap year and not the year preceding a secular leap year. However, Sefer Birchat Hashanim p. 96 discusses this issue and writes in the name of Maharam Shik that there's some mistake in the Avudraham and it should say that Veten tal is pushed off if the next year is going to have February with 29 days. He also shows that the mathematical calculation and Tashbetz are clear that the year before the secular leap year is pushed off one day and not the year after the leap year.

			[See Teshuvot Vehanhagot 3:42 who writes that the minhag in South Africa was to start Ten Tal on December 5th or 6th, depending on the year (and not 4th or 5th). Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 19:5 writes that we start Ten Tal on December 4th or 5th. Though, that was written in the 1800s and today after 1900 that would be the equivalent to December 5th or 6th.] </ref>''' a civil leap year, such as Tuesday December 5th 2023). The end of the winter is [[Mincha]] of Erev [[Pesach]] and after that we stop saying VeTen Tal UMatar Lebracha in Birkat HaShanim. <ref>Shulchan Aruch O.C. 117:1, Artscroll Siddur (Nachlat Shimon p.104) writes that we begin to say VeTen Tal on the night of December 4th except if that year precedes a leap year. Halacha Brurah 117:5 writes that in a leap year (on a Hebrew calendar, December and February would be in the same year) we begin saying VeTen Tal on the night of December 5th.

	*Briefly, the winter Equinox (formally, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equinox Southward Equinox]) is on September 23rd, however, due to the discrepancy between the Julian calendar and Shmuel's calendar, the equinox is assumed to be on September 21st. For an explanation of this point, see [http://www.judaicseminar.org/halakhot/talumatar.pdf?vm=r&s=1 an article by Rabbi Shamah].		*Briefly, the winter Equinox (formally, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equinox Southward Equinox]) is on September 23rd, however, due to the discrepancy between the Julian calendar and Shmuel's calendar, the equinox is assumed to be on September 21st. For an explanation of this point, see [http://www.judaicseminar.org/halakhot/talumatar.pdf?vm=r&s=1 an article by Rabbi Shamah].

YitzchakSultan1: /* When to say it */

2023-12-05T16:01:57Z

When to say it

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:01, 5 December 2023
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	==When to say it==		==When to say it==

	#During the winter one must say VeTen Tal UMatar Lebracha in Birkat HaShanim (Brachenu / [[Barech]] Aleinu). For this halacha the beginning of the winter is considered in [[Israel]] from the seventh of Cheshvan <ref>Sh"t Yechave Daat 1:73, Tur and Shulchan Aruch 117:1. The logic is based on a Mishna in Masechet Taanit 10a which says that since people were coming to Yerushalayim for Aliya Laregel, we wanted to give two weeks after Sukkot for them to return home before praying for rain so that they don't get rained on during their travels. </ref> and in the diaspora from the night of December 4th (and December 5th the year '''before''' a civil leap year, such as Tuesday December 5th 2023).<ref>Artscroll Siddur (Nachlat Shimon p.104) writes that we begin to say VeTen Tal on the night of December 4th except if that year precedes a leap year. Halacha Brurah 117:5 writes that in ~~a leap year (~~on ~~a Hebrew calendar~~, ~~December and February would be in~~ the ~~same~~ year) we ~~begin saying VeTen~~ Tal on the ~~night of~~ December 5th.</ref> The end of the winter is [[Mincha]] of Erev [[Pesach]] and after that we stop saying VeTen Tal UMatar Lebracha in Birkat HaShanim. <ref>Shulchan Aruch O.C. 117:1, Artscroll Siddur (Nachlat Shimon p.104) writes that we begin to say VeTen Tal on the night of December 4th except if that year precedes a leap year. Halacha Brurah 117:5 writes that in a leap year (on a Hebrew calendar, December and February would be in the same year) we begin saying VeTen Tal on the night of December 5th.		#During the winter one must say VeTen Tal UMatar Lebracha in Birkat HaShanim (Brachenu / [[Barech]] Aleinu). For this halacha the beginning of the winter is considered in [[Israel]] from the seventh of Cheshvan <ref>Sh"t Yechave Daat 1:73, Tur and Shulchan Aruch 117:1. The logic is based on a Mishna in Masechet Taanit 10a which says that since people were coming to Yerushalayim for Aliya Laregel, we wanted to give two weeks after Sukkot for them to return home before praying for rain so that they don't get rained on during their travels. </ref> and in the diaspora from the night of December 4th (and December 5th the year '''before''' a civil leap year, such as Tuesday December 5th 2023).<ref>Artscroll Siddur (Yitzchak Yiranen p. 120, Nachlat Shimon p.104) writes that we begin to say VeTen Tal on the night of December 4th except if that year precedes a leap year. Koren Siddur (Koren Mesorat Harav p. 239), and Halacha Brurah 117:5 agree.

			See Teshuvot Vehanhagot 3:42 who writes that the minhag in South Africa was to start Ten Tal on December 5th or 6th, depending on the year (and not 4th or 5th). Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 19:5 writes that we start Ten Tal on December 4th or 5th. Though, that was written in the 1800s and today after 1900 that would be the equivalent to December 5th or 6th. </ref> The end of the winter is [[Mincha]] of Erev [[Pesach]] and after that we stop saying VeTen Tal UMatar Lebracha in Birkat HaShanim. <ref>Shulchan Aruch O.C. 117:1, Artscroll Siddur (Nachlat Shimon p.104) writes that we begin to say VeTen Tal on the night of December 4th except if that year precedes a leap year. Halacha Brurah 117:5 writes that in a leap year (on a Hebrew calendar, December and February would be in the same year) we begin saying VeTen Tal on the night of December 5th.

	*Briefly, the winter Equinox (formally, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equinox Southward Equinox]) is on September 23rd, however, due to the discrepancy between the Julian calendar and Shmuel's calendar, the equinox is assumed to be on September 21st. For an explanation of this point, see [http://www.judaicseminar.org/halakhot/talumatar.pdf?vm=r&s=1 an article by Rabbi Shamah].		*Briefly, the winter Equinox (formally, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equinox Southward Equinox]) is on September 23rd, however, due to the discrepancy between the Julian calendar and Shmuel's calendar, the equinox is assumed to be on September 21st. For an explanation of this point, see [http://www.judaicseminar.org/halakhot/talumatar.pdf?vm=r&s=1 an article by Rabbi Shamah].

YitzchakSultan1: /* When to say it */

2023-12-05T15:21:08Z

When to say it

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:21, 5 December 2023
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	==When to say it==		==When to say it==

	#During the winter one must say VeTen Tal UMatar Lebracha in Birkat HaShanim (Brachenu / [[Barech]] Aleinu). For this halacha the beginning of the winter is considered in [[Israel]] from the seventh of Cheshvan <ref>Sh"t Yechave Daat 1:73, Tur and Shulchan Aruch 117:1. The logic is based on a Mishna in Masechet Taanit 10a which says that since people were coming to Yerushalayim for Aliya Laregel, we wanted to give two weeks after Sukkot for them to return home before praying for rain so that they don't get rained on during their travels. </ref> and in the diaspora from the night of December 4th (and December 5th the year '''before''' a civil leap year, such as Tuesday December 5th 2023). The end of the winter is [[Mincha]] of Erev [[Pesach]] and after that we stop saying VeTen Tal UMatar Lebracha in Birkat HaShanim. <ref>~~S”A~~ 117:1, Artscroll Siddur (Nachlat Shimon p.104) writes that we begin to say VeTen Tal on the night of December 4th except if that year precedes a leap year. Halacha Brurah 117:5 writes that in a leap year (on a Hebrew calendar, December and February would be in the same year) we begin saying VeTen Tal on the night of December 5th.		#During the winter one must say VeTen Tal UMatar Lebracha in Birkat HaShanim (Brachenu / [[Barech]] Aleinu). For this halacha the beginning of the winter is considered in [[Israel]] from the seventh of Cheshvan <ref>Sh"t Yechave Daat 1:73, Tur and Shulchan Aruch 117:1. The logic is based on a Mishna in Masechet Taanit 10a which says that since people were coming to Yerushalayim for Aliya Laregel, we wanted to give two weeks after Sukkot for them to return home before praying for rain so that they don't get rained on during their travels. </ref> and in the diaspora from the night of December 4th (and December 5th the year '''before''' a civil leap year, such as Tuesday December 5th 2023).<ref>Artscroll Siddur (Nachlat Shimon p.104) writes that we begin to say VeTen Tal on the night of December 4th except if that year precedes a leap year. Halacha Brurah 117:5 writes that in a leap year (on a Hebrew calendar, December and February would be in the same year) we begin saying VeTen Tal on the night of December 5th.</ref> The end of the winter is [[Mincha]] of Erev [[Pesach]] and after that we stop saying VeTen Tal UMatar Lebracha in Birkat HaShanim. <ref>Shulchan Aruch O.C. 117:1, Artscroll Siddur (Nachlat Shimon p.104) writes that we begin to say VeTen Tal on the night of December 4th except if that year precedes a leap year. Halacha Brurah 117:5 writes that in a leap year (on a Hebrew calendar, December and February would be in the same year) we begin saying VeTen Tal on the night of December 5th.

	*Briefly, the winter Equinox (formally, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equinox Southward Equinox]) is on September 23rd, however, due to the discrepancy between the Julian calendar and Shmuel's calendar, the equinox is assumed to be on September 21st. For an explanation of this point, see [http://www.judaicseminar.org/halakhot/talumatar.pdf?vm=r&s=1 an article by Rabbi Shamah].		*Briefly, the winter Equinox (formally, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equinox Southward Equinox]) is on September 23rd, however, due to the discrepancy between the Julian calendar and Shmuel's calendar, the equinox is assumed to be on September 21st. For an explanation of this point, see [http://www.judaicseminar.org/halakhot/talumatar.pdf?vm=r&s=1 an article by Rabbi Shamah].
	*Shulchan Aruch 117:1 writes that outside [[Israel]] we begin saying VeTen Tal on the night of the 60th day from the equinox. To account for the difference between the Julian calendar and our commonly used civil calendar (Gregorian calendar), we have to review a bit of history. In 1582 the Gregorian calendar was pushed forward 10 days and skips one day every century on the century, except for years divisible by 400. That is, in 1600, the Gregorian calendar was 10 days ahead of the Julian calendar. By 1700, the Gregorian calendar was 11 days ahead. Continuing in this way, we see that by 2000 the Gregorian calendar was 13 days ahead of the Julian calendar. Since 2000 is divisible by 400 there was no leap year and the Gregorian calendar remains 13 days ahead of the Julian calendar until 2100. For more information about this calculation see the Wikipedia page on [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar#Difference_between_Gregorian_and_Julian_calendar_dates Gregorian calendar].		*Shulchan Aruch 117:1 writes that outside [[Israel]] we begin saying VeTen Tal on the night of the 60th day from the equinox. To account for the difference between the Julian calendar and our commonly used civil calendar (Gregorian calendar), we have to review a bit of history. In 1582 the Gregorian calendar was pushed forward 10 days and skips one day every century on the century, except for years divisible by 400. That is, in 1600, the Gregorian calendar was 10 days ahead of the Julian calendar. By 1700, the Gregorian calendar was 11 days ahead. Continuing in this way, we see that by 2000 the Gregorian calendar was 13 days ahead of the Julian calendar. Since 2000 is divisible by 400 there was no leap year and the Gregorian calendar remains 13 days ahead of the Julian calendar until 2100. For more information about this calculation see the Wikipedia page on [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar#Difference_between_Gregorian_and_Julian_calendar_dates Gregorian calendar].
	*Counting 60 days from September 21st results in November 21st. Counting 13 from then to account for the difference between the Julian and Gregorian calendar, we arrive at the night of December 4th. See [http://www.lookstein.org/articles/veten_tal.htm?vm=r&s=1 this ~~shiur~~ by Rabbi Sokolow] for more sources on this topic.		*Counting 60 days from September 21st results in November 21st. Counting 13 from then to account for the difference between the Julian and Gregorian calendar, we arrive at the night of December 4th. See [http://www.lookstein.org/articles/veten_tal.htm?vm=r&s=1 this article by Rabbi Sokolow] for more sources on this topic.
	</ref>		</ref>

YitzchakSultan1: /* When to say it */

2023-12-05T15:17:03Z

When to say it

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:17, 5 December 2023
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	==When to say it==		==When to say it==

	#During the winter one must say VeTen Tal UMatar Lebracha in Birkat HaShanim (Brachenu / [[Barech]] Aleinu). For this halacha the beginning of the winter is considered in [[Israel]] from the seventh of Cheshvan <ref>Sh"t Yechave Daat 1:73, Tur and Shulchan Aruch 117:1. The logic is based on a Mishna in Masechet Taanit 10a which says that since people were coming to Yerushalayim for Aliya Laregel, we wanted to give two weeks after Sukkot for them to return home before praying for rain so that they don't get rained on during their travels. </ref> and in the diaspora from the night of December 4th (and December 5th the year '''before''' a civil leap year, such as ~~Thursday Dec~~ 5th ~~2019~~). The end of the winter is [[Mincha]] of Erev [[Pesach]] and after that we stop saying VeTen Tal UMatar Lebracha in Birkat HaShanim. <ref>S”A 117:1, Artscroll Siddur (Nachlat Shimon p.104) writes that we begin to say VeTen Tal on the night of December 4th except if that year precedes a leap year. Halacha Brurah 117:5 writes that in a leap year (on a Hebrew calendar, December and February would be in the same year) we begin saying VeTen Tal on the night of December 5th.		#During the winter one must say VeTen Tal UMatar Lebracha in Birkat HaShanim (Brachenu / [[Barech]] Aleinu). For this halacha the beginning of the winter is considered in [[Israel]] from the seventh of Cheshvan <ref>Sh"t Yechave Daat 1:73, Tur and Shulchan Aruch 117:1. The logic is based on a Mishna in Masechet Taanit 10a which says that since people were coming to Yerushalayim for Aliya Laregel, we wanted to give two weeks after Sukkot for them to return home before praying for rain so that they don't get rained on during their travels. </ref> and in the diaspora from the night of December 4th (and December 5th the year '''before''' a civil leap year, such as Tuesday December 5th 2023). The end of the winter is [[Mincha]] of Erev [[Pesach]] and after that we stop saying VeTen Tal UMatar Lebracha in Birkat HaShanim. <ref>S”A 117:1, Artscroll Siddur (Nachlat Shimon p.104) writes that we begin to say VeTen Tal on the night of December 4th except if that year precedes a leap year. Halacha Brurah 117:5 writes that in a leap year (on a Hebrew calendar, December and February would be in the same year) we begin saying VeTen Tal on the night of December 5th.

	*Briefly, the winter Equinox (formally, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equinox Southward Equinox]) is on September 23rd, however, due to the discrepancy between the Julian calendar and Shmuel's calendar, the equinox is assumed to be on September 21st. For an explanation of this point, see [http://www.judaicseminar.org/halakhot/talumatar.pdf?vm=r&s=1 an article by Rabbi Shamah].		*Briefly, the winter Equinox (formally, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equinox Southward Equinox]) is on September 23rd, however, due to the discrepancy between the Julian calendar and Shmuel's calendar, the equinox is assumed to be on September 21st. For an explanation of this point, see [http://www.judaicseminar.org/halakhot/talumatar.pdf?vm=r&s=1 an article by Rabbi Shamah].

Unknown user: /* Sources */

2021-12-06T02:14:25Z

Sources

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:14, 6 December 2021
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	*if one remembers before saying Baruch Atta Hashem at the end of the bracha, one should go back to the VeTen Tal Umatar and continue from there.<ref>Mishna brurah 117:15 </ref>		*if one remembers before saying Baruch Atta Hashem at the end of the bracha, one should go back to the VeTen Tal Umatar and continue from there.<ref>Mishna brurah 117:15 </ref>
	*if one remembers after saying Hashem's name in [[Barech]] Alenu, one should conclude with Lamdeni Chukecha and start the bracha again.<ref>~~Sh"t Teshuvot VeHanhagot 2:58, Ashel Avraham 117 s.v. Achar,~~ Piskei Teshuvot 117:4 </ref>		*if one remembers after saying Hashem's name in [[Barech]] Alenu, one should conclude with Lamdeni Chukecha and start the bracha again.<ref>Piskei Teshuvot 117:4 </ref>
	*if one remembers after saying the bracha of Mevarech HaShanim, one shouldn't say VeTen Tal UMatar Libracha right there unless one is likely to forget to say it in Shama Kolenu in which case one should say it right after Mevarech HaShanim.<ref>Mishna Brurah 117:15 rules that it's better not to say Veten Tal right after Mevarech HaShanim since one can still say it in Shema Kolenu. However, Sh"t Or Letzion 2:7:32 writes that if one is likely to forget to say in Shema Kolenu, one should say Veten Tal right after Mevarech HaShanim. Orach Neeman 117:11, Sh"t Teshuvot VeHanhangot 2:58, and Piskei Teshuvot 117:6 agree.		*if one remembers after saying the bracha of Mevarech HaShanim, one shouldn't say VeTen Tal UMatar Libracha right there unless one is likely to forget to say it in Shama Kolenu in which case one should say it right after Mevarech HaShanim.<ref>Mishna Brurah 117:15 rules that it's better not to say Veten Tal right after Mevarech HaShanim since one can still say it in Shema Kolenu. However, Sh"t Or Letzion 2:7:32 writes that if one is likely to forget to say in Shema Kolenu, one should say Veten Tal right after Mevarech HaShanim. Orach Neeman 117:11, Sh"t Teshuvot VeHanhangot 2:58, and Piskei Teshuvot 117:6 agree.

Unknown user: /* If one made a mistake during the winter */

2021-12-06T01:45:21Z

If one made a mistake during the winter

Show changes

Unknown user: /* Sources */

2020-07-12T12:30:36Z

Sources

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:30, 12 July 2020
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	==Sources==		==Sources==
	<references/>		<references/>

			{{Prayers}}
	[[Category:Prayer]]		[[Category:Prayer]]